AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Martijn de Bruin]

31 minutes ago, Spiky Norman said:

I know we're going down a tangent in relations to Ironjawz, but why does the Rippas rule mean that they always get to activate before the opponent?

It just says that they are eligible to fight in the combat phase.

An opponent can't usually activate within 6" so Rippas "can't" be attacked until they themselves have activated, piled-in and attacked in the combat phase.

[Spiky Norman]

Ah yea, in that way. I read it as them being the very first unit to activate in all combat phases.

[Backbreaker]

On 7/20/2021 at 10:29 PM, Spiky Norman said:

As have already been mentioned, the Wardokk is a very versatile buff piece. Can buff the Rogue Idol, or just use the base Bonesplittas spells like the Warcry.

Currently he seems pretty cheap to me, but let's see what happens in the new battletome in a month. 🙂

I believe you can't. You cannont choose spell for bonesplitterz shamans if you take them as allies, only in Bonesplitta or BigWaa.

On 7/21/2021 at 1:10 PM, Spiky Norman said:

About the Rippa's Snarlfangs, are you considering them useful just based on their 12" move, or is there anything else hiding there?

Charging a unit of Lumineth Sentinels and make them use/forfeit Unleash hell for a unit like that is reaaally satisfying!!

 

[Spiky Norman]

5 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

I believe you can't. You cannont choose spell for bonesplitterz shamans if you take them as allies, only in Bonesplitta or BigWaa.

True, though the list I posted was set in Big Waagh, even though it was mainly an Ironjawz list apart from the couple of Bonesplitta wizards. 🙂

I presume it'll stay that way in the coming Battletome, but with Kruelboyz in the mix, that might be an added incentive to stray from Ironjawz and go into Big Waaagh.

[Backbreaker]

I really think that our current battletome is one of the best available. Fun to play and fun to play against. With a lot of gameplays and almost no units you'll never take. I hope we will keep that in the upcoming book.

 

Right now I really enjoy playing Ironjawz because of smashing and bashing, it's working so well in 3ed edition.

 

By the way guys, did you know that the 6+ save of our Ardboyz is only against normal wounds and not mortal wounds?

[mrteige]

37 minutes ago, Backbreaker said:

I really think that our current battletome is one of the best available. Fun to play and fun to play against. With a lot of gameplays and almost no units you'll never take. I hope we will keep that in the upcoming book.

 

Right now I really enjoy playing Ironjawz because of smashing and bashing, it's working so well in 3ed edition.

 

By the way guys, did you know that the 6+ save of our Ardboyz is only against normal wounds and not mortal wounds?

I couldnt agree more. I really hope that the new battletome will "just" be the addition of kruleboyz, an update to big waaagh! and some point tweeks.

Yes i knew that but a lot of people dont. dont know why...

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, mrteige said:

I couldnt agree more. I really hope that the new battletome will "just" be the addition of kruleboyz, an update to big waaagh! and some point tweeks.

Since the Kruleboyz have their current MW works in big waaagh! I kinda hope they make Big Waaagh! the only faction but that each of Jawz/Splitters/Krule get extra bonuses related to their keyword the same way as the Gloomspite. Smashing and Bashing for example would work exactly the same in Big Waaagh! as Ironjawz, you can still only activate other Ironjawz units so the restriction is how diverse your force is rather than an allegiance.

Then you add in subfactions like Ironsunz which lockout the other allegiances, so if you pick Ironsunz you then become an old-school "Ironjawz" army.

[Jabbuk]

I played my first 3.0 game last night with Big Waaagh! and I had a lot of fun. Some unexpected performances too! I'll do a little report here to share my experience.

I wanted to test a potential 1k-ish point list in 2v2 that I'll play with a Sylvaneth player. So my list is 1015 points as his is 985. That being said, here's the list: 
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Command Entourage
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Wurrgog Prophet (170) in Command Entourage
- General
- Command Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Brutal Beast Spirits
Wardokk (85) in Command Entourage
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Kunnin' Beast Spirits
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (260) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (190) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95) in Hunters of the Heartlands
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)
Command Entourage - Strategists
Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 1015 / 1000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 98

I picked Hunters of the Heartlands because I know my opponents will have at least one or two monsters and thought it'd be useful if my units were protected. I also figured the Arrowboys would be interesting against a monster too with their -1 Rend. 

• The Wurrgog Prophet was amazing. With both his Artefact+Command Trait and when I was chanting next to him to get him to +1 to cast, he was a +3 cast. I even got to cast his signature spell on a 10+ (It can be modified 10) to decimate a unit of Dryads.
• The Arrowboys were surprisingly effective. Although at first their range is really limited (18in) once they all fired their weight of dice with the +1hit +1wound of Big Waaagh! it felt really good. 
• I didn't know what to do with all my CPs in first turn. Not sure if I'd take the Strategist option instead of Magnificent. On turn 1, my goal was to turtle anyway to let the WP build up. I think I had 4-5 CPs and I didn't really know where to use them. I might switch for an artefact instead. The Wurgogg does get one on 4+. 
• Orruks are slow in Big Waaagh! I felt I wanted to push and charge when I was ready but with 4in movement, they lack a bit of mobility. I kinda forgot about it. 
• I racked up 20 Waaagh! Points by turn 2. Felt great and on target. 10 first round, 12+ second round. After that I was just ready to go. Everything hit better. I got surprised however that I couldn't boost my hit anymore. I had the mentality of stacking my +1 hit buffs from 2.0. Since Smashin' gives a +1 to hit, I couldn't give a unit +1 to hit anymore with either a spell or an All-Out Attack. Gotta be weary of that. Another reason to not have too many CPs. Once all units are buffed in +1hit, I kept them for All-Out Defense.
• I wanted to use Curse as a prayer but with 9in range and a chant in the hero phase, it feels like something you can only use in the thick of things when you get charged. The idea was that if I get charged, I could use Unleash Hell with my 50+ attacks from the arrowboys to fish for 6s and decimate the unit, but I'd need to Curse the unit prior to their charge phase, so it's kinda hard to nail. It'd have to be the turn after, so.. Anyway. Cool on paper, hard in practice. 

I think that's it. I had a lot of fun. If you see any mistakes in my play or wanna share your opinion, let me know!

PS: We're playing against Slaves-to-Darkness and Nurgle. Both extremely resilient armies so I thought going with weight of dice and focusing on something that could snipe monster heroes would be a good idea. 

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Jabbuk

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

The Arrowboys were surprisingly effective. Although at first their range is really limited (18in) once they all fired their weight of dice with the +1hit +1wound of Big Waaagh! it felt really good. 

Quick point, the +1 hit/wound is melee weapons only.

2 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

I racked up 20 Waaagh! Points by turn 2. Felt great and on target. 10 first round, 12+ second round. After that I was just ready to go. Everything hit better. I got surprised however that I couldn't boost my hit anymore. I had the mentality of stacking my +1 hit buffs from 2.0. Since Smashin' gives a +1 to hit, I couldn't give a unit +1 to hit anymore with either a spell or an All-Out Attack. Gotta be weary of that. Another reason to not have too many CPs. Once all units are buffed in +1hit, I kept them for All-Out Defense.

You can apply more than +1 to modifiers you just can't apply more than +1 total to the final dice roll. So if you have +1 and your opponent applies -1 you can add another +1 to cancel his out negative out.

 

As a side note I'm going to a 1 day event tomorrow and I've suddenly discovered the perfect use for a Footboss.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495) in Command Entourage
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Command Entourage
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Command Entourage
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Megaboss (160) in Battle Regiment
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (285)
- Reinforced x 2
15 x Orruk Ardboys (285)
- Reinforced x 2
5 x Orruk Brutes (150)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (150)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Endless Spells & Invocations
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Core Battalions
Command Entourage - Magnificent
Battle Regiment

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139

Arcane tome + footboss...It's a weirdnob shaman but with 7 wounds a 3 up save and is good in combat! Not to mention hand of gork fixes all the footbosses horrific mobility problems and actually wants to keep up with the MK making the footboss a great caster to maintain the Emerald Lifeswarm.

This is the greatest thing since Gorkamorka punched Sigmar!

[Jabbuk]

@Malakree Oh Damn! You're right it's melee only. Okay... That changes alot. I was banging on this to make the arrowboys more effective since they have a rather crappy profile. I guess that Strat doesn't work then, huh. 

Cool list btw, that's a great idea to improve the footboss.

 

[5kaven5lave]

@Malakree Have also been plotting something similar ish, this is a double-edged compliment of sorts but I think one of the greatest strengths of a footboss is access to a cheap Amulet of Destiny for an Ironsunz krushaboss.

Hoping like crazy that we manage to stay relatively untouched in the next book, think we’re in a good place right now. 

[Jabbuk]

How does everyone feel about Da Choppas here? It feels really solid in a 1k list full of Brutes and Ardboys. Spending 1 CP to get +1dam to 3 units until the next hero phase is really strong. I'm not sure why it's not discussed often. I'm playing a Nurgle list and everything is 4+ wounds almost so I feel like it'd be a solid option vs Ironsunz.

What do you guys think?

[Malakree]

12 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

@Malakree Have also been plotting something similar ish, this is a double-edged compliment of sorts but I think one of the greatest strengths of a footboss is access to a cheap Amulet of Destiny for an Ironsunz krushaboss.

Hoping like crazy that we manage to stay relatively untouched in the next book, think we’re in a good place right now. 

Personally I feel like Ironjawz has all the same problems it had before AoS3 and suffers against all the same stuff it did. After 2 one day events I'd say that Big Waaagh! is just better, the 6+ ward is just so crucial vs any good army. We're also so dependent on the Warchanter +1 to actually output damage that anything which doesn't have it feels underwhelming.

The footboss wizard was cool but again has the same issues as an unbuffed weirdnob when trying to use Hand of Gork. I like him I just wouldn't take HoG on him (I don't think we need it) and instead grab something like levitate. Also ran into teclis and a slann so successfully cast 1 spell in 3 games, which was an irrelevant lifeswarm in the last game where I rolled the poor guy with a turn 1/2 double.

Still don't like Brutes but they hit the 10 man sweet spot hard for having multiple reinforced units which aren't awful. On the other hand units of 15 Ardboys are good but so unwieldy. I have no desire to spend 10mins optimizing a unit of 15 ardboys to get maximum attacks. Mawkrushas feel depressingly underwhelming for 500 points, they are either glass cannons or super tanky pillows and Gotrek being at 435 makes a mockery of them.

Honestly I'm struggling with lists at the moment and need to give it some more thought. Main issue I'm having is lack of models....

[mrteige]

2 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

How does everyone feel about Da Choppas here? It feels really solid in a 1k list full of Brutes and Ardboys. Spending 1 CP to get +1dam to 3 units until the next hero phase is really strong. I'm not sure why it's not discussed often. I'm playing a Nurgle list and everything is 4+ wounds almost so I feel like it'd be a solid option vs Ironsunz.

What do you guys think?

im playing around with a MSU choppas army. Lots of 5 man units of ardboys and brutes. In that way i can get a lot of +1 Damage and i can guarantee i will get +2 attacks from waaagh. Think it could be fun but its still slow as hell

This is the first draft. Gotta try it out

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Choppas
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495) in Command Entourage
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Checked Out
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Command Entourage
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Command Entourage
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120) in Vanguard
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (95) in Vanguard
- Universal Spell Lore: Ghost-mist
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95) in Vanguard
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95) in Vanguard
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95) in Vanguard
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95) in Vanguard
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95) in Vanguard
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (95) in Vanguard
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Brutes (150) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (150) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (150) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas

Core Battalions
Command Entourage - Magnificent
Vanguard
Vanguard
Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1970 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 95 / 400
Wounds: 142
 

Edited July 24, 2021 by mrteige

[Lanoss]

I fully expect to see some changes to the IJs portion of the tome. We have about 8 or 9 sources of +1 to hit - before AOA - which could be utilised for other/better rulesplay. 
I’d personally like to see Gordrakk be a worthy investment over a 85pt cheaper MBMK (which can take CT + Artefact). 
Brutes could do with a new creative rule for them wanting to Duff Up Da Big Things - because like I said, +1 to Hit is so prevalent and mundane now. 
And some unique rules to our Warbands- we still haven’t seen rules for the BS Warband yet. 
 

 

ps. A return of FOOT OF GORK would be absolutely sweet!!!

[Boggler]

5 hours ago, Malakree said:

Personally I feel like Ironjawz has all the same problems it had before AoS3 and suffers against all the same stuff it did. After 2 one day events I'd say that Big Waaagh! is just better, the 6+ ward is just so crucial vs any good army. We're also so dependent on the Warchanter +1 to actually output damage that anything which doesn't have it feels underwhelming.

Honestly I'm struggling with lists at the moment and need to give it some more thought. Main issue I'm having is lack of models....

Same. I don't own two MBMK's otherwise I would try em out.

Everytime I write a BW list I can't see myself getting to 20 WP before turn 3.

Ironsunz might be the way to go, and with only one Warchanter and or Weirdnob.

[Boggler]

And here is a BW list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Mortal Realm: Chamon
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Battle Regiment
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (120) in Battle Regiment
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340) in Warlord
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170) in Battle Regiment
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (190) in Battle Regiment
- 2x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Brutes (150) in Battle Regiment
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
30 x Savage Orruks (390) in Battle Regiment
- Stikkas
- Reinforced x 2

Core Battalions
Battle Regiment

Total: 1975 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 167
 

I am not sure why I am posting it because I am really not happy with it. Like all of us waiting for the new Battle Tome there are so many questions. BW seems weaker without Mighty Destroyers coming from somewhere and spending 390 points on 30 models just to try and get those Waaagh points up is a big ridiculous.

I wonder how much of a threat a 30 block of Arrowboys would be. Though, I don't really care to be rolling that many dice outside TTS.

 

[Backbreaker]

On 7/23/2021 at 12:02 PM, Malakree said:

Since the Kruleboyz have their current MW works in big waaagh!

Wait whaaat? 😀

 

On 7/24/2021 at 8:47 PM, Malakree said:

Personally I feel like Ironjawz has all the same problems it had before AoS3 and suffers against all the same stuff it did. After 2 one day events I'd say that Big Waaagh! is just better, the 6+ ward is just so crucial vs any good army.

I don't agree with you. At least if you consider that the only good armies are Lumineth, Tzeentch and Seraphon (before 3ed, I would have add Kharadron but they are not about MW and their teleportation issue is resolved now).

 

I faced armies that I consider good, like Ossiarchs or Flesh Eaters and managed to win with good positioning and my buffed up MawKrusha. I will always take a MK over Gotrek. His move, mighty destroyer and our buffs are just so good on him. He really feels like the Queen when you play chess.

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

At least if you consider that the only good armies are Lumineth, Tzeentch and Seraphon (before 3ed, I would have add Kharadron but they are not about MW and their teleportation issue is resolved now).

Lumineth, Tzeentch, Seraphon, Snakes of Khaine, Skaven, anything with Gotrek.

2 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

I faced armies that I consider good, like Ossiarchs or Flesh Eaters and managed to win with good positioning and my buffed up MawKrusha. I will always take a MK over Gotrek. His move, mighty destroyer and our buffs are just so good on him. He really feels like the Queen when you play chess.

Gotrek walks into the middle of the board and that's it. With heroic recovery he easily has 14/15 wounds in a game which makes him basically impossible to kill without spamming a huge amount of single damage attacks.

2 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

Wait whaaat? 😀

Quote

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/08/discover-how-command-abilities-are-the-key-to-success-with-the-orruk-warclans-in-the-new-edition/: 
The Kruleboyz even have their own extra allegiance ability, Venom-encrusted Weapons, which is every bit as nasty as it sounds! What’s more, they gain this ability whether you field an army consisting exclusively of Kruleboyz or use them as part of a larger Orruk Warclans force.

 

[NauticalSoup]

Is there actually a game rule to that effect? Historically WarCom has been pretty unreliable when it comes to the actual mechanics of the game. And they may be referring to how it is intended to work in the new army book.

[Malakree]

1 minute ago, NauticalSoup said:

Is there actually a game rule to that effect? Historically WarCom has been pretty unreliable when it comes to the actual mechanics of the game. And they may be referring to how it is intended to work in the new army book.

Well I was also talking about the new book but yeah on looking there isn't a current rule to that effect I can find.

On 7/23/2021 at 11:02 AM, Malakree said:

Since the Kruleboyz have their current MW works in big waaagh! I kinda hope they make Big Waaagh! the only faction but that each of Jawz/Splitters/Krule get extra bonuses related to their keyword the same way as the Gloomspite. Smashing and Bashing for example would work exactly the same in Big Waaagh! as Ironjawz, you can still only activate other Ironjawz units so the restriction is how diverse your force is rather than an allegiance.

 

[5kaven5lave]

On 7/24/2021 at 7:47 PM, Malakree said:

Personally I feel like Ironjawz has all the same problems it had before AoS3 and suffers against all the same stuff it did. After 2 one day events I'd say that Big Waaagh! is just better, the 6+ ward is just so crucial vs any good army. We're also so dependent on the Warchanter +1 to actually output damage that anything which doesn't have it feels underwhelming.

The footboss wizard was cool but again has the same issues as an unbuffed weirdnob when trying to use Hand of Gork. I like him I just wouldn't take HoG on him (I don't think we need it) and instead grab something like levitate. Also ran into teclis and a slann so successfully cast 1 spell in 3 games, which was an irrelevant lifeswarm in the last game where I rolled the poor guy with a turn 1/2 double.

Still don't like Brutes but they hit the 10 man sweet spot hard for having multiple reinforced units which aren't awful. On the other hand units of 15 Ardboys are good but so unwieldy. I have no desire to spend 10mins optimizing a unit of 15 ardboys to get maximum attacks. Mawkrushas feel depressingly underwhelming for 500 points, they are either glass cannons or super tanky pillows and Gotrek being at 435 makes a mockery of them.

Honestly I'm struggling with lists at the moment and need to give it some more thought. Main issue I'm having is lack of models....

All really good points here, I was thinking more at the allegiance ability level, Mad As Hell and Smashing and Bashing, Ironsunz having the -1 to hit, it’s fun if not world-beatingly effective. 

[Bruteforce]

22 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

Wait whaaat? 😀

 

I don't agree with you. At least if you consider that the only good armies are Lumineth, Tzeentch and Seraphon (before 3ed, I would have add Kharadron but they are not about MW and their teleportation issue is resolved now).

 

I faced armies that I consider good, like Ossiarchs or Flesh Eaters and managed to win with good positioning and my buffed up MawKrusha. I will always take a MK over Gotrek. His move, mighty destroyer and our buffs are just so good on him. He really feels like the Queen when you play chess.

What do you usually buff your MK with?

[Backbreaker]

1 hour ago, Bruteforce said:

What do you usually buff your MK with?

+1 damage with a warchanter

+1 to wound and +1 to save with heroic action

+1 to hit if necessary with monster action

Charging 3d6 with warchanter "chant"

Rippaklaw for AP-3

Mean'un for the MK itself

Ironclad for 2+ save

And I play a lot of units so I tend to reach +2attacks with a Waaagh.

Basically you end up with 10 attacks at 2+ 2+ -3 D3 and 10 attacks at 2+ 2+ -2 D4, plus a bit of shooting and a bit of MW on the charge. And that doesn't count all the tricks we have with mighty destroyer, +1 to charge and 3d6 to charge.

 

I decided to forgot about the defensive MK. If a lumineth/seraphon/tzeentch player decide to kill him, nothing will prevent them to do so. So I go all in. I took down two ghoul kings on terrorgheist in one combat phase last time

[Orkmann]

12 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

 decided to forgot about the defensive MK. If a lumineth/seraphon/tzeentch player decide to kill him, nothing will prevent them to do so. So I go all in. I took down two ghoul kings on terrorgheist in one combat phase last time

Im on team rippa, but I think the weird un is a better choice overall, because it gives you a big plus against the exact armies we usually struggle to deal with. The 4+ ignore is great, because it puts a lot of pressure onto your opponent whether he wants to target the cabbage, esp if you manage to negate the first one. The more decision you force into him to make, the higher chance hes making a mistake.