AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Scurvydog]

14 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Yeah, it’s a mess really. I do take the Weirdnob as general now and give him Visions, as an average roll gives you 2CP (100 points worth) and if you roll the 5/6 you’re paying for the model before the game even starts and starting with a massive advantage. Having spells after that is a bonus. 

For Ironsunz that is true. I have been playing them a bit after the new GHB and tried going for +1 spell/cast and +1 to cast artifact on the shaman, but as I run both 6 gruntas and a Mawkrusha usually, he has a hard time keeping up with where the fight takes place to either damage or buff things. I find myself in need of CP far more often, as mighty destroyers alone is usually more beneficial than any spell cast.

With Ironsunz you can throw CP at both MD, counter charges and +1 hit from the megaboss and might even need a battleshock auto pass on those low bravery brutes, so usually I will not miss mighty waaagh, being so pressed for CP. In that regard he makes sense as you mention as a way to optimize Ironsunz a bit more, maybe getting a teleport of, maybe not... If he manages to unbind a spell that is great as well  

On another note, the new warband up for preorder this saturday! Please let them have some cooler AoS rules than the 4 ardboyz warband...

[Spiky Norman]

3 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

On another note, the new warband up for preorder this saturday! Please let them have some cooler AoS rules than the 4 ardboyz warband...

I hope they have the correct keywords, so they can be included in the appropriate battalion.

They probably won't, but then maybe 2x of the new warband can become a regular brute unit. Plus an extra orruk to convert into a warchanter or something 🙂

[Ganigumo]

On 8/7/2020 at 2:49 AM, Scurvydog said:

The points increase of the weirdnob shaman was crazy, especially considering destruction has wizards like the fungoid for 90 pts it makes no sense. The weirdnob is so generic and their warscroll spell is terrible, which also makes their single ability terrible. Even more so considering Ironjawz is a rather elite orruk force, so having a 10 model+ barrier for the single ability on the single wizards warscroll is incredibly poor design.

I love the model, but if it was not for the teleport spell I would never ever bring him. In a pure ironjawz list all the bonesplitterz wizards are useless as well, the fungoid is far better value point for point, with a 4+ ignore wound save, his 4 wounds is actually tougher to bring down than any of the other wizards, and he generates command points on 4+ and can also double cast once per game for 90 pts... who balances these things again?

Maybe he's pointed for the list that spams MSU brutes to get a crazy powerful wrath of Gork?

[5kaven5lave]

53 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Maybe he's pointed for the list that spams MSU brutes to get a crazy powerful wrath of Gork?

List sounds cool, but with a points drop on Brutes any list like that surely got cheaper overall after the FAQ. 

[Boggler]

I played in a two day tournament this past weekend. I took Ironsunz. I went D W L L  W W

I am overall very happy with how I did, especially since I have not played this much AoS in such a long long time. Of course I would do a lot of things differently, and I made a lot of mistakes, but so did everyone else as the energy and excitement to play again was the key. I don't think I am better than a 4-2 player, and I have learned that this list is definitely not a 5-1 list. All my games were against super fantastic opponents that I learned a lot from.

Here is my list: 

Spoiler

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact : Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird : Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact : Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait : Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110) 
- Warbeat : Fixin' Beat
UNITS 
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320) 
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (130) 
- Pair of Brute Choppas
15 x Orruk Ardboys (300) 
- 2 x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1 x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200) 
- 1 x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1 x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200) 
- 1 x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1 x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
BATTALIONS
Ironfist (160)

The key takeaways are that Ironsunz are great, but Big Waagh is just better. Having only one Warchanter was a mistake, you definitely need two. No one understands you when you tell them that for one CP, you can charge them at the end of their Charge phase. The 5 Brutes really underperformed, really they didn't do much more that act scary and screen out some board space. Maybe that is what they are for? It is not unlikely to fail a 6" charge!

Game 1 - Gloomspite - Total Commitment

Spoiler

I deployed very aggressively. My opponent did not. I took the first turn and used Violent Fury on the unit of 15 Ardboys, who got Hand over to is side objective. I made the charge and took an early lead on points. The rest of the game I played fairly defensively, which I probably should not have. In the end it was pretty close on kill points. I had no idea a Mangler Squig could one shot my MBMK! In this case the MBMK was left with 1 wound after he got a 20" move, then easy charge in, then run away. Squigs are fun. I was happy with the draw, but I really could have done better.

Game 2 - Daughters of Khaine - Focal Points

Spoiler

60 Witch Elves, 20 Sisters of Slaughter. 10 Blood sisters. I knew I had to go first and kill as many of the  WE's as possible before they could get their buffs up. I took first turn and WF'd the Gruntas.  The 15 man Ardboys got Hand up in to the action. The Gruntas and MBMK used MD to get ahead. Ardboys failed their charge. Gruntas slammed in to the 30 WE's and the MBMK tagged the end of a string of Blood Sisters. I still felt pretty good. The GG's go first. Total miss. Like many missed hits and failed wounds. I only killed 5 WE's. The Blood Sisters hit the MBMK, did a couple wounds, and then he killed 6 with his attack back. His Cauldron of Blood piled in from behind the dead WE but didn't do much, in the end I only lost 2 GG's. This move forward basically meant that I controlled the center objective for the entire game. In his turn, the GG's did a lot better and the MBMK finished off the Blood Sisters. Here is when I knew that my list needed that 2nd Warchanter.

Game 3 - Hallowheart - Starstrike

Spoiler

This was one my my two losses, and both losses were complete wipes. I had no models by turn 4 and being in Aqshy didn't help. I deployed fairly aggressively. He castled up. A bunch of mages, Huricanum, Luminark, behind a wall of phoenix guard. I knew I had to hit his Phoenix Guard before he buffed them up. Again the 15 Ard boys went in with a Hand. They had VF and failed their charge. My opponent was super happy. It was game. He got the double turn and in those two hero phases he got a +5 cast both times. All his spells, with the comet did not leave me with much left. The 6's I rolled on my battleshocks didn't help either. It was 15+ MW's per turn. Getting turn 3 was crucial, I had units in combat everywhere and several CP's to use MD. from the MBMK who was still alive. He got the turn and the magic dominance continued. My army was gone! This game bothered me as I didn't think it was such a bad match up. I probably won't go first again, unless I have two 6 man GG units buffed up and All out Attacking!

Game 4 - Kharadron Overlords - Battle for the Pass

Spoiler

This was a great game. We were both 4 drops, so the rolloff was important. We both wanted to go first. He won it and I deployed slightly defensively while still being able to get on to those side objectives if I ran a couple times. He redeployed his Frigate, and the Aether Khemist placed the Skaven Stormspell on my right flank doing a bunch of mortals to a bunch of units. He also shot at the pings, killing a few. I was happy with this as the damage wasn't too bad. My turn the 15 ard boys got buffed up and Hand to the back objective. They made their charge and took it easily. The right side, my guys moved out of the vortex and barely made a charge with the half charge distance thing from the Frigate. They didn't do enough damage to take that objective. The left was mine as well. A nice 7-3 points lead, and maybe I could get the double? Nope. More shooting saw the GG's down to one pig left and the 15 ard boys were now 6. The MBMK had half move for the game from something from the Frigate! My left objective Ardboys got shot to pieces, very few were left. My turn, I didn't have much left but I did have a nice 14 - 5 points lead. He got priority and shot a bunch more stuff. I did not have much left. My MBMK was still flying at half speed and the Ardboys were gone. The Weirdnob and Warchanter were hiding behind a rock on my backfield objective. A gunhauler fired at the MBMK, he got his free move and headed towards him and charged in in his charge phase. This killed the Gunhauler and contested the side objective. End of Turn 3 was 15-8 or something. I didn't have much left. He got priority again, and only the Weirdnob and Warchanter remained. Of course I had to do something. Warchanter got Hand to the back objective. Buffed himself and charged some lone hero he had on that covering that space. He wound up doing only two wounds... It was now 16-12 Turn 5. I get priority. Chanter buffs himself, spends my new and last CP on Mighty Destroyers... He does 2 more wounds... Combat phase, he kills off this hero. I did it. Its 21-12. The he goes and cleans up. 21-21 huge difference in kill points! Great game

I will add games 5 and 6 tomorrow with photos. This took longer than I thought. Thanks for reading.

[5kaven5lave]

@Boggler Love the write up so far, thanks for putting the effort in. Was thinking about a list like yours but decided on Warchanter and possible triumph instead of 5 Brutes. How did you feel your Boys did? Would you have preferred to go 15/15/5 instead?

[Scurvydog]

7 hours ago, Boggler said:

The key takeaways are that Ironsunz are great, but Big Waagh is just better.

Do you feel being Big Waagh would have made much of a difference? and if so, why? 

I am debating this myself, and especially for Ironjawz it takes until turn 2 to really get going and you might need to sacrifice a CP for "ere we go", to get up to those magic 20 points.

Even then you give up all the Ironsunz tools, like -1 to be hit round 1 and counter charges, as well as smashin and bashin from Ironjawz, which is the tool that allows Orruks to snowball. 

Smashin and Bashin is probably the tool I'd miss the most as Big Waaagh, right after universal access to MD, as those two tools are major game changers. At the very least I don't think I'd ever run Big Waagh without brutish cunnin and an Ironfist. Another point would also be that the Megaboss can provide +1 hit as well, so it just seems Ironjawz give so many more options than Big Waaagh. 2+/2+ profiles all around is sweet though and 6++ save... 

2 warchanters is absolutely needed for any competetive setting, it is both  about double damage for most units, including the beats on top for 110 pts, that is just too good and 1 will also just disappear to any of the ranged/magic meta lists if they know what they are doing. 

Good you had fun and had nice opponents! I went to a tournament the previous weekend with my stormcast MW spam list, but will take my Ironjawz to an upcoming weekend event, which has a slightly less competetive crowd. Against most top competetive lists, even 2 warchanters will be dead turn 1 or turn 2 at the latest though, not much to do about this until we get some bodyguard units some such.

I am still undecided on Ironjawz or Big Waagh, my latest test game was Ironsunz though, and that worked well against a bloodthirster list, I could screen out, counter charge with +1 dmg buffed units and let Smashin and Bashin do the work. I can't imagine I would have won without smashin and bashin, killing power does not seem to be the problem, rather hitting first/not getting hit is the major problem for Ironjawz I feel.

[broche]

@Boggler look like you were playing at the Grand Clash as well

Nice write up!

As you said 1 warchanter is too short, always bring (at least?) 2 ;). 

I don't thing big waaagh is strinctly better than Ironsunz, both play a bit differently. Ironsunz have the option to play more aggressive, better protection against alpha strike and more reliable mighty destroyer. Big waaagh will tend to win attrition war thanks to the +1/+1 mid to late game. Personnaly what I don't like in the big waaagh is the lock on brutish cunning and Ironfist. 

[broche]

On 8/7/2020 at 2:49 AM, Scurvydog said:

The points increase of the weirdnob shaman was crazy, especially considering destruction has wizards like the fungoid for 90 pts it makes no sense. The weirdnob is so generic and their warscroll spell is terrible, which also makes their single ability terrible. Even more so considering Ironjawz is a rather elite orruk force, so having a 10 model+ barrier for the single ability on the single wizards warscroll is incredibly poor design.

Even if the increase is unjustified, I find it pretty much irrelevant. Almost all list will still take 1 shaman for the hand of gork. Most troops configuration already hit between 1940 and 2000 already, so it's just a matter of an additionnal 10 points on triumph. 

1 configuration that is impacted is for exemple MK, 2 WC, Shaman, 30 ardboys, 6 gore gruntas, 5 brutes wich come a 2010 pts. But in that case the 10 point increase on Ardboys is already much more relevant.

I feel that the cost increase on Ardboys is the harshest thing we got. At 100 pts for 5 Arboys are now mediocre for their cost, so you want to limit their number in favor for more brutes. However Brutes have the battleshock issue and lack the +2 charge. So now you're confronted with the tough choice of screening with Ardboys (expensive) or Brutes (not an effective screen). 

Before points update I usually played 20-25 ardboys and 5-10 brutes. This week-end I played 15 ardboys and 15 brutes. Even if it's the same number of model, i was often struggling with deployment (before it was pretty easy, you would use ardboys to screen and counter punch with brutes but now I kinda wanted to protect my ardboys until late game for teleport).

[Spiky Norman]

5 hours ago, broche said:

Even if the increase is unjustified, I find it pretty much irrelevant. Almost all list will still take 1 shaman for the hand of gork. [...]

Have you considered running Bloodtoof to save the points and use the Hand through the artefact instead?

It's one use only, but it's guaranteed. Of course you give up the -1 and such from Ironsuns, but also gain other benefits instead, so it's a muddy comparison perhaps.

[broche]

1 minute ago, Spiky Norman said:

Have you considered running Bloodtoof to save the points and use the Hand through the artefact instead?

I did run Bloodtooth before GHB20 as my casual list. I don't think i lost a game with it, but I did never tried it in tournament. However my list took 2 major hit with GHB20: loss of etheral amulet and cost increase for ardboys, meaning it now clock at 1990 instead 1970 and i would not get triumph in a lot of game, so I didn't really reworked it as of now and went for a different list.

I still like the artefact a lot since you can build you're opening strategy around it (like buff 15-20 ardboys and teleport them)

[Boggler]

11 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Do you feel being Big Waagh would have made much of a difference? and if so, why? 

My list was 4 drops, and only 8 units. I felt that the Brutes did nothing the entire time. Other than screening, but for 130 pts, This seemed expensive for that role. If they had the +/+ mid to late game I am sure they would have don better and it likely wouldn't have impacted my ability to go aggressively too much. Everything has its tradeoff. I am going to take Ironsunz again for sure, but with 3 more GG's, and I am going to go for pure Alpha strike. I'm not going to bother with the Weirdnob as there is nothing fast enough to keep up with them Ardboys.

Some of the Auxiliaries require a Battleline to do stuff. If I take a unit of 5 Ardboys, I guess I can't use them for Battleline stuff. And in Better Part of Valour they can't even cap objectives. My thinking is that Savage Orruks will do a better job for less points.

[VonSmall]

Having lots of fun with this list. It's a bit 'eggs in a basket' but the Ardboys and Brutes have done excellent work late game.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies
Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
10 x Orruk Brutes (260)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 110

[Scurvydog]

So the new warbands warscrolls are out. The DoK one does exactly what I talked about previously and gives a Hag a bodyguard unit, transfering wounds to her 4 companions on a 4+.

The Brute warband does not do that... it is absolute boring trash. Simply 3 brutes with a worse boss than a regular one (+1 attack instead of any boss weapon!) and they special ability is +1 to wound if they kill a monster... wow... And the warscroll model picture is not even of Morgok for Morgok's Krushas, jeez GW!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/IJ3vCzuu2DmvGzun.pdf

Edited August 13, 2020 by Scurvydog

[Incredebilis]

(Accidentally posted twice, this site is confusing on my mobile browser.)

Edited August 13, 2020 by Incredebilis

[Incredebilis]

2 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

So the new warbands warscrolls are out. The DoK one does exactly what I talked about previously and gives a Hag a bodyguard unit, transfering wounds to her 4 companions on a 4+.

The Brute warband does not do that... it is absolute boring trash. Simply 3 brutes with a worse boss than a regular one (+1 attack instead of any boss weapon!) and they special ability is +1 to wound if they kill a monster... wow... And the warscroll model picture is not even of Morgok for Morgok's Krushas, jeez GW!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/IJ3vCzuu2DmvGzun.pdf

That’s very disappointing. I don’t know why it’s so hard for GW to make Brutes play interesting. That +1 to wound is probably never going to happen. The Monster keyword is too rare and the things that do have it will definitely be able to inflict 9 wounds before these guys can kill them. I was hoping the 2 guards would have 2 damage or -2 rend  with those clubs, and Morgok would have at least 5 wounds, and an aura or command ability. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Incredebilis

[Spiky Norman]

That's sad, as it's awesome models, and I'd love to field them.

I guess the best option is to buy two packs and mix them with other Brutes units, to make a new Brute unit, and convert the left over orruk into a Warchanter.

[broche]

4 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

The Brute warband does not do that... it is absolute boring trash. Simply 3 brutes with a worse boss than a regular one (+1 attack instead of any boss weapon!) and they special ability is +1 to wound if they kill a monster... wow... And the warscroll model picture is not even of Morgok for Morgok's Krushas, jeez GW!

Yeah i'm usually positive but I don't see them being played in match play. They don't fill any roll, you'll take 5 ardboys over any time.

[ShinzoFTW]

Hey guys, just got pointed to this forum from the /r/WarhammerCompetitive reddit! I'm interested in starting an IronJawz army and wanted to ask for advice in terms of what boxes/models I should look into buying. 

The model that drew me to the Army was the Mega Boss on Maw Krusha but from what I've seen its a very good unit so I'll definitely be picking one up, other than that I was considering picking up 2 start collecting boxes as well as 2 boxes of Brutes. 

From a hobby perspective I'm not concerned about my ability to paint and get everything battle ready as I have several other AoS armies as well as 40k, so mainly just wanted to ask some experts about the viability of this starting point/any suggested improvements.

Thanks!

[5kaven5lave]

@ShinzoFTW Welcome!! I’m far from an expert but there are plenty on here who really know their stuff. It’s been pretty quiet on here for the last couple of weeks but if you want an outline of what’s good have a read of the last couple of pages and you’ll see the discussions since the last GHB dropped, should help you make some decisions.

Was actually just coming on here myself to ask if anyone’s managed to get any games in over the last few weeks and has some experience to share?

[Arkahn]

3 hours ago, ShinzoFTW said:

Hey guys, just got pointed to this forum from the /r/WarhammerCompetitive reddit! I'm interested in starting an IronJawz army and wanted to ask for advice in terms of what boxes/models I should look into buying. 

The model that drew me to the Army was the Mega Boss on Maw Krusha but from what I've seen its a very good unit so I'll definitely be picking one up, other than that I was considering picking up 2 start collecting boxes as well as 2 boxes of Brutes. 

From a hobby perspective I'm not concerned about my ability to paint and get everything battle ready as I have several other AoS armies as well as 40k, so mainly just wanted to ask some experts about the viability of this starting point/any suggested improvements.

Thanks!

You cant be wrong with SC! boxes ! Brutes are worth considering since the GHB20 so it's a good idea to buy 2 boxes of it. Just add one Weirdnob Shaman and you will have a very good base army. A fungoid cave-shaman is worth considering as allie though.

[Televiper11]

Is Da Bossfist no longer legal?

 

[baiardo]

This is still an ever green for who want to start the faction right?

 Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironjawz
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
Orruk Warchanter (110)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)
- 1 x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers - 1 x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)
- 1 x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers - 1 x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
REARGUARD
    TOTAL: 970/1000
WOUNDS: 83
 

[Jabbuk]

On 8/27/2020 at 6:30 PM, baiardo said:

This is still an ever green for who want to start the faction right?

 Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironjawz
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
Orruk Warchanter (110)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)
- 1 x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers - 1 x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)
- 1 x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers - 1 x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
REARGUARD
    TOTAL: 970/1000
WOUNDS: 83
 

Megaboss on foot is OK for smaller games or redundancy. He's nothing stellar though. Generally you want 2 Warchanters, Ardboys and Brutes to your liking yeah. And get a MK

[baiardo]

2 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

Megaboss on foot is OK for smaller games or redundancy. He's nothing stellar though. Generally you want 2 Warchanters, Ardboys and Brutes to your liking yeah. And get a MK

A bit generic but thank you anyway, can you suggest me your favorite 1k list?