AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[TALegion]

11 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

10 points on Ardboys seems fair but putting 10 points on the Weirdnob Shaman who will now just die turn 1 to Teclis / Kroak is bizarre. Looks like my Ardfist is going from 4x10 Boys to 3x10, a 5 and hopefully a cheeky Triumph. 

With the influx of super strong casters, I'm considering just not bringing a Weirdnob. We only get one cast that's already going to fail ~50% of the time before unbinds, so unless you stick the weirdnob in the far back all game (and even then...), we have very bad odds of actually getting a HoG to work.

[Martijn de Bruin]

Alright, I would like some input on the following list. I always disliked the Ardboyz and I believe now is the time to ditch them  I am thinking about trying the following list. I believe Shamans and Warchanters are becoming much harder to use in this arising new meta, so whilst I considered 1 Warchanter at least, I just couldn't fit it in without losing on bodies.  List is a 3-drop!

CP's will mainly be used for either Mighty Destroyers at key moments or for Gordrakk's Voice of Gork to buff multiple units in a big charge turn.

What do you all think in regards to composition, artefact/trait choice, strengths & weaknesses?

 

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (130)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (130)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (130)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (130)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121

Edited July 21, 2020 by Martijn de Bruin

[5kaven5lave]

The only thing I’m wondering about dropping the Weirdnob is that most people seem to run a battalion but Warchanters can’t take artefacts (or can they?) so that leaves you a bit short-changed. 

[5kaven5lave]

Double post. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by 5kaven5lave

[TALegion]

@Martijn de Bruin You'll almost definitely want to fit a Warchanter into your list. They double the effectiveness (50% increase for mawkrushas) of your brutes and gore-gruntas for 110 points, which makes them the most efficient option there is.  Your gore-grunta unit or mawkrushas will hit like trucks with +1 damage

 

28 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

The only thing I’m wondering about dropping the Weirdnob is that most people seem to run a battalion but Warchanters can’t take artefacts (or can they?) so that leaves you a bit short-changed. 

Warchanters CAN take artefacts, but NOT the artefacts from the Warclans tome. Those artefacts are specifically for bosses and weirdnobs. So, warchanters are left with realm aretfacts.

[Martijn de Bruin]

1 hour ago, TALegion said:

@Martijn de Bruin You'll almost definitely want to fit a Warchanter into your list. They double the effectiveness (50% increase for mawkrushas) of your brutes and gore-gruntas for 110 points, which makes them the most efficient option there is.  Your gore-grunta unit or mawkrushas will hit like trucks with +1 damage

I know they're good for what they do, but this list is build to mitigate being dependent on force multipliers that are easily taken out by current modern top armies.

Thus trying to make the list with just big monsters & cheap bodies that hit hard on their own.

[Ravinsild]

Interested to hear any thoughts on a list like this:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: The Golden Toof
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (260)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 2x Gore Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (260)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 2x Gore Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (260)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 2x Gore Choppas

 

Battalions
Da Boss Fist (220)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131
 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Ravinsild

[Warmill]

5 hours ago, Martijn de Bruin said:

Alright, I would like some input on the following list. I always disliked the Ardboyz and I believe now is the time to ditch them  I am thinking about trying the following list. I believe Shamans and Warchanters are becoming much harder to use in this arising new meta, so whilst I considered 1 Warchanter at least, I just couldn't fit it in without losing on bodies.  List is a 3-drop!

CP's will mainly be used for either Mighty Destroyers at key moments or for Gordrakk's Voice of Gork to buff multiple units in a big charge turn.

What do you all think in regards to composition, artefact/trait choice, strengths & weaknesses?

 

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (130)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (130)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (130)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (130)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121

It's pretty awful to be honest, you only have 1 free mighty destroyers a turn and only 1 extra CP from the battalion but at least 3 units who want to be moving per turn on top of potentially using gordrakk's CA, so you'll have pretty much no movement which is not good for IJ, especially with no teleport to compensate. 5 brutes are also going to struggle to trigger smashing and bashing so you'll be getting hit back a lot which MSU brutes aren't great at taking.

If you really want 2 krushas and brutes I would drop gordrakk and 5 brutes for a regular krusha, and either a weirdnob general with great green visions and dead kunnin or take brutish kunnin as your command trait instead and a  warchanter. The shaman will be either left alone or will take a turn of spells/shooting but by then he's generated the CPs and it means your krushas aren't getting killed early.

[5kaven5lave]

Adapting my list to this for a game tonight. No point keeping the Ardfist if the Warchanter is dead turn 2 so going Ironfist instead, bang it on the pigs and it pays for its CP in a couple of turns. Never actually used Brutes before so will give them a go as well, cheeky upgrade for 5 Ardboys to prevent wasted points. Think this is 1990 in new money. The Weirdnob could be a waste but 1-3 CP and a chance to get a Mystic Shield off on the Krusha before I bowl him into enemy lines could be vital. Thoughts appreciated.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour  
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Command Trait: Dead Kunnin'  
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape  
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Jagged Gore-hackas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 1930 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142
 

[Ganigumo]

4 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

The only thing I’m wondering about dropping the Weirdnob is that most people seem to run a battalion but Warchanters can’t take artefacts (or can they?) so that leaves you a bit short-changed. 

 

8 hours ago, TALegion said:

With the influx of super strong casters, I'm considering just not bringing a Weirdnob. We only get one cast that's already going to fail ~50% of the time before unbinds, so unless you stick the weirdnob in the far back all game (and even then...), we have very bad odds of actually getting a HoG to work.

This is a reason to go bloodtoofs IMO. Drop the wierdnob, take a megaboss on foot who is pretty durable (7 wounds 3+ save) who can take the artifact to autocast hand of gork once per game. getting brutes/gruntas with +2 charge, and 'ardboyz with +4 to charge is icing.

Then you can give your extra artifact to the Megaboss on Maw Krusha.
 

 

[broche]

I like the Shysh artefact (reroll save of 1) on Maw Krusha with Ironclad. Combined with Weird'un and army withouth much rend 2 will have hard time passing thru him

9 hours ago, TALegion said:

With the influx of super strong casters, I'm considering just not bringing a Weirdnob. We only get one cast that's already going to fail ~50% of the time before unbinds, so unless you stick the weirdnob in the far back all game (and even then...), we have very bad odds of actually getting a HoG to work.

That is true, however HoG is so powerfull that just the menace of it is sometime enough to make your opponent play around it. Even if it just succeed once per game it can be enough to secure a win.  It's mainly Seraphon and Lumineth that will  likely negate it all game long. 

It indeed it's give an argument toward Bloodtooth, as you can plan you game around it. Also at 140 pts vs 120 pts Footboss is now a much better deal than before compare to a Weirnob (more durable and fight better)

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by broche

[TALegion]

Good points about Bloodtoofs. Between the alternative teleport and the +2 charges for brutes (which brings them closer to ardboyz' level of utility), it might be the change that I'm looking for. Having functionally no command trait is a little disappointing, but I'll take it

[broche]

I suspect Bloodtooth is probably better in a Krushaless list where losing the trait have much less impact

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
- Artefact: Quickduff Amulet
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
Ironfist (160)
Ardfist (120)

Total: 1920 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 145
 

 

[PlasticCraic]

@broche yeah I was even thinking 2 drops:

Megaboss on Foot

Warchanter

30 Ardboyz

30 Ardboyz

10 Ardboyz

5 Ardboyz 

5 Ardboyz

Ardfist

1970

Two drops, get up there with loads of board control.  30 Ardboyz in their face, on the rare occasions that you'll bounce you either don't charge them or just tag, and Alpha Bunker instead. 

Could also drop 15 Boyz for 6 pigs if you wanted a bit more board control, although it's also an extra drop.  

For what initially looks like a really skewed list, it doesn't actually have that many bad matchups, although I liked it better when you could use Ragged Cloak on the Warchanter. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by PlasticCraic

[broche]

Haha nice I like it (when you have 80 painted Ardboys) 😄

I was wondering if 2 drop is really necessery vs like 3 for instance? I think right now good list are either 1 drop (KO, Tzeentch) or 4+ but i could be wrong!

 

[PlasticCraic]

Lumineth is probably the main one that might come in around 2 / 3 drops?  We'll have to see what "The List" looks like for them, but Teclis and a Battalion is a very big chunk of that army.

But yeah, whether LRL is worth building around remains to be seen, so maybe a 3rd drop wouldn't be the end of the world.

[Lanoss]

On 7/22/2020 at 12:02 AM, Ravinsild said:

Interested to hear any thoughts on a list like this:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: The Golden Toof
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (260)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 2x Gore Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (260)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 2x Gore Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (260)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 2x Gore Choppas

 

Battalions
Da Boss Fist (220)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131
 

Do we know if WD battalions are still matched play legal?

[Backbreaker]

5 hours ago, Lanoss said:

Do we know if WD battalions are still matched play legal?

Nothing in the GH2020 say they are not.

I'm also working on that Da Boss Fist list, but I don't know about warchanter, I like having a second MK and one drop army...

[T e e t h p a s t e]

Did “Da Bossfist” warscroll battalion ever get released? I cannot find it on the Azyr app.

[VonSmall]

I was thinking something like this could be viable (not many bodies though)

Super mobile with Ironfist on Pigs, potential for the extra CP and Fungoid can cast re-roll 1s saves and Chamon spell (potentially) on a Krusha in T1. If there is a screen wall 'The Anvil' goes in to clear it out and hopefully survives whatever comes back at it - or at least takes everything they have to kill it.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Chamon
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460) aka 'The Anvil'
- General
- Artefact - Chamon ignore -1 Rend 
- Command Trait: Ironclad
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460) aka 'The Hammer'
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Jagged Gore Hackas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)
Ironfist (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 110
 

Edited July 23, 2020 by VonSmall

[Boggler]

I had a list made and painted for a tourney back in April. I never got to play it and now I need to make some adjustments. I am open to switching the Weirdnob for another Warchanter, and Ironsunz is not mandatory. My MK was even painted to have the Ethereal modeled on! Any idea what Realm gives a Warchanter the best artifact?

Four drops. Trying for Alpha but hinges on a Weirdnob... Likely doesn't even out drop a lot of lists anymore. The Brutes are in there to use up the points. I could drop them and fish for a Triumph. Starts with 3CP, probably need to use some CP to get on to the objectives early. It could go in to a Big Waagh but I don't have the 30 Savages ready for bodies. This army is 49 models and its just not enough to get the BW points going.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
- Warclan: Ironsunz
LEADERS
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Command Trait : Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact : Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait : Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact : Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird : Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
UNITS
5 x Orruk Brutes (130)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1 x Gore Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
15 x Orruk Ardboys (300)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)
BATTALIONS
Ironfist (160)

Thanks in advance,

Edit: Could switch to Bloodtoof. Drop the Weirdnob for a Megaboss, give him the relic. Switch the 5 Brutes to 5 Ardboys.

2nd Edit: Also, if I go with the 2nd Warchanter, my army will be from Ghyran and have the Everspring Diadiem. Any better suggestions for a realm for the Warchanters?

Edited July 25, 2020 by Boggler

[Grimskul25]

Hey everybody, 

Trying to figure out the best way to use IJ with the new points changes and I'm glad Brutes are more interesting as a choice versus Ardboyz now. I'm in a 2v2 game (teamed with OBR) with 1500 points per player. Here's my list so far:

Warclan: Choppas, Realm: Chamon

Megaboss on Maw Krusha with Gore Hacka and Choppa - 460

• Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
• Mount Trait: Mean 'Un

Warchanter, General - 110

• General Trait: Checked Out
• Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection 
• Fixin Beat

Warchanter - 110

• Get Em Beat

5 Brutes with Pair of Brute Choppas  - 130

5 Brutes with Pair of Brute Choppas - 130

6 Gore Gruntas with Jagged Gore Hackas - 320

Ironskullz Boyz - 80

Ironfist Battalion  - 160

I've been debating if I should change my Ironskullz Boyz into regular 5 man unit of Ardboyz and changing 3 of the Gore Gruntas into another 5 man Brute unit. I would however be around 1490 points then rather than on the dot with 1500. Do you guys think it's worth having more bodies, particularly Brutes given that it's a Choppas warclan list? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[Jabbuk]

On 7/30/2020 at 12:22 AM, Grimskul25 said:

Hey everybody, 

Trying to figure out the best way to use IJ with the new points changes and I'm glad Brutes are more interesting as a choice versus Ardboyz now. I'm in a 2v2 game (teamed with OBR) with 1500 points per player. Here's my list so far:

Warclan: Choppas, Realm: Chamon

Megaboss on Maw Krusha with Gore Hacka and Choppa - 460

• Artefact: Metalrippa's Klaw
• Mount Trait: Mean 'Un

Warchanter, General - 110

• General Trait: Checked Out
• Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection 
• Fixin Beat

Warchanter - 110

• Get Em Beat

5 Brutes with Pair of Brute Choppas  - 130

5 Brutes with Pair of Brute Choppas - 130

6 Gore Gruntas with Jagged Gore Hackas - 320

Ironskullz Boyz - 80

Ironfist Battalion  - 160

I've been debating if I should change my Ironskullz Boyz into regular 5 man unit of Ardboyz and changing 3 of the Gore Gruntas into another 5 man Brute unit. I would however be around 1490 points then rather than on the dot with 1500. Do you guys think it's worth having more bodies, particularly Brutes given that it's a Choppas warclan list? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I think you could try adding Brutes instead and see how it goes. Choppas lists haven't really been discussed that much so it would be interesting to see how it fares. I say, since you already have your MawKrusha, perhaps a unit of 6 GGs is less needed as they act as one of our hammer. I'm not a big fan of Brutes in 5. They often die too fast. That being said to your question of is it worth it to have more bodies, I think they answer is yes. Bodies in this current meta is a big plus, with all the shooting and MW. Not that I have a ton of experience myself but it seems to be the general thinking, even in the Orruk Warclans forum.

I myself am currently going to go for BigWaaagh to include a big block of arrowboys to up my wounds.

Hope that helps.

[broche]

On 7/30/2020 at 12:22 AM, Grimskul25 said:

I've been debating if I should change my Ironskullz Boyz into regular 5 man unit of Ardboyz

Just in case you were not aware, Ironskullz can't go in the bataillion, so it's an extra drop. However they might still worth it because they are 80 vs 100 pts for almost the same profile (they do loose bravery and charge bonus tough so they are more suited for holding an objective)

[Grimskul25]

Thanks for the input guys! I had my game with that list this past Saturday, and it did pretty well. The Maw Krusha performed as he usually does, and was a missile of doom for a Keeper of Secrets who thought it was safe behind his blobs of daemonettes. The Plate of Protection is probably one of the few new realm artefacts worth taking, as it saved my Warchanter's bacon when he got jumped by an unexpected pack of daemonettes. 

I agree with Jabbuk's assessment of taking larger brute units. I thought MSU would be good if I went for choppas because of their command ability, but they're not tanky enough to deal enough damage in 5 man units. 

I guess my main question would be if going warclan-less is better than going for Choppas at this point, since if I don't leverage the command ability, then I'm really just taking it for the potential charge rerolls and the +2Ld bubble for the brutes.