AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Kasper said:

I don't see Mighty Destroyers as a "win more" ability at all, but I think the "issue" is that most of us have played Ironjawz as an alphastrike list that can't take a lot of punch. After having watched Leo Rautonen play his Ironjawz vs Slaanesh, I could certainly see a much slower and defensive playstyle with tons of Ardboyz where you let your opponent get the double turn and you sort of rely on your opponent to charge you, then countercharge important hammer units with Ironsunz CA and when your turn rolls around you have a load of stuff locked in combat during the hero phase and ready to smash.

Definately. It was super important for me to be able to clean off screens and/or stuff pinning me in combat. The difference between 5 turns to clear horrors and 2.

6 hours ago, broche said:

Quick rule question, can Shadespire orc now be include in battalions (i think they can't trigger Ardfist ability cause key word is in bold or something like that)

The ardfist battalion, and others, use the warscroll names not keyword bold meaning they can't be taken in battalions.

[broche]

Yeah I think 'win more' was not the right term here.
You definitly need MD to win game. Pre-battletome, when I was activating MD to fight once or twice per turn, I would usually win those games.
However in games I was not able to use it (because my model were dying to fast) I was generally losing.

Popping back model is the kind of ability that can make the difference in those contest.

[Kasper]

25 minutes ago, broche said:

Yeah I think 'win more' was not the right term here.
You definitly need MD to win game. Pre-battletome, when I was activating MD to fight once or twice per turn, I would usually win those games.
However in games I was not able to use it (because my model were dying to fast) I was generally losing.

Popping back model is the kind of ability that can make the difference in those contest.

If you apologize and promose to paint 20 Ardboyz, I'll let you off the hook.

[Superninja]

question:  The nighthaunt soul cage spell works just like locus of diversion right?  

My real question is if Smash and Bashing would allow you to get around the Soul cage spell?

Edited October 31, 2019 by Superninja

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Superninja said:

question:  The soul cage spell works just like locus of diversion right?  

My real question is if Smash and Bashing would allow you to get around the Soul cage spell?

What exactly does it say? 

[Superninja]

@Malakree

"if successfully cast, pick an enemy unit within 12" of the caster that is visible.  Until the start of your next hero phase, that unit cannot retreat.  In addition, until the start of your next hero phase, that unit cannot fight in the combat phase unless all other enemy units that are eligible to fight have already done so."

from faq: Page 55 – Soul CageChange the last sentence to:‘In addition, until your next hero phase, that unit fights at the end of the combat phase.’

so this is the correct version of spell now --"if successfully cast, pick an enemy unit within 12" of the caster that is visible.  Until the start of your next hero phase, that unit cannot retreat.  In addition, until your next hero phase, that unit fights at the end of the combat phase"

Edited October 31, 2019 by Superninja

[Malakree]

5 minutes ago, Superninja said:

@Malakree

"if successfully cast, pick an enemy unit within 12" of the caster that is visible.  Until the start of your next hero phase, that unit cannot retreat.  In addition, until the start of your next hero phase, that unit cannot fight in the combat phase unless all other enemy units that are eligible to fight have already done so."

from faq: Page 55 – Soul CageChange the last sentence to:‘In addition, until your next hero phase, that unit fights at the end of the combat phase.’

so this is the correct version of spell now --"if successfully cast, pick an enemy unit within 12" of the caster that is visible.  Until the start of your next hero phase, that unit cannot retreat.  In addition, until your next hero phase, that unit fights at the end of the combat phase"

Yes smashing and bashing overrides it. In both cases.

[Fastbear]

So i'm playing a tournament next week. Been having good success with the new ironjawz so far. Maw Crusha has been a part of the army from the start but is almost always outclassed by Gore Gruntas in my Ironsunz lists. So this is the best list i can muster in Ironsunz so far and what i will be playing.

Game plan is to buff up and teleport 15 ardboys to the frontline of the enemy to take out screens unless he shows any openings. With 2+ to cast on my general Weirdnob this should be pretty consistent. Gore Gruntas will follow up behind and be in position to either charge or counter charge weather or not i get the second turn or not.

while putting on huge pressure i will secure objectives in the back with Gore Gruntas and ardboys while playing reactively to opponents positioning always looking for openings to chuck the last ardboys in.

Allegiance: Ironjawz - Mortal Realm: Hysh - Warclan: Ironsunz
LEADERS
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110) - General - Command Trait : Master of the Weird  - Artefact :  Shamanic Skullcape  - Lore of the Weird : Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110) - Artefact :  Aetherquartz Brooch - Warbeat : Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110) - Warbeat : Killa Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110) - Warbeat : Killa Beat
UNITS
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320) - Jagged Gore-hackas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320) - Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160) - Pig-iron Choppas
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270) - 2 x  Gorkamorka Banner Bearers - 1 x  Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270) - 2 x  Gorkamorka Banner Bearers - 1 x  Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
BATTALIONS
Ironfist (160)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Extra Command Point (50)

 

Tournamentlist.pdf

Edited November 1, 2019 by Fastbear
Inserting list

[Malakree]

@Fastbear I'm also finding that the standard cabbage is mediocre. I really like big g though. The MW output and ability to knock down cover is really nice.

Fyi you can only use 1 of each warbeat each turn just in case you missed that.

Is your shaman running the double cast ability? If so grabbing wrath of gork and having a unit of 5 and a unit of 10 ardboys gives you the 2 extra dice but also gives you the small unit for home objective protection.

Definately looks solid though, those units of 6 ggs are evil with the +1 dmg! I'm looking at getting a 3rd Warchanter and running a Gorefist with big g 😁

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

On 10/31/2019 at 8:13 AM, Kasper said:

I don't see Mighty Destroyers as a "win more" ability at all, but I think the "issue" is that most of us have played Ironjawz as an alphastrike list that can't take a lot of punch. After having watched Leo Rautonen play his Ironjawz vs Slaanesh, I could certainly see a much slower and defensive playstyle with tons of Ardboyz where you let your opponent get the double turn and you sort of rely on your opponent to charge you, then countercharge important hammer units with Ironsunz CA and when your turn rolls around you have a load of stuff locked in combat during the hero phase and ready to smash.

Gotta be frank with you. That is kinda how I won against slaanesh two months ago: let him get an incredibly rotten double turn (was out of reach and he couldn't land charges) and then overwhelmed him with more charges than he had units with locus (and therefore chained a tide of destruction).

But that is beside the point. Wanted to ask which list you guys would take:

LIST A:

 

Megaboss on mawkrusha with riptooth fist and mean un. Has ironclad and scales of ignax. 460pts

2x warchanters. killa and get'em beat. KIlla beat chanter has termalrider cloak. 220pts

1x weirdnob with the teleport. 110pts

 

15 x ardboyz with +2 bravery banner and 2 -1 bravery ones. 270pts.

10 x ardboyz with +2 bravery banner and -1 bravery one. 180pts.

3 gruntas with spears. 160pts.

 

Ironfist. 160pts

Extra cp 50pts.

 

1500 on the dot.

 

List B is:

warchanter general with brutish kunin (free Mighty D) and daubing of mork 110pts

weirdnob with great green hand of gork and great green visions. 110pts

another 2 warchanters for 220pts with killa and get em beat respectively

2 x10 ardboyz for 360pts

6 gruntas with spears with 320pts

3 gruntas with spears for 160pts

extra cp and ironfist for 210pts

1490pts

Thoughts?

[broche]

7 hours ago, Malakree said:

I'm also finding that the standard cabbage is mediocre. I really like big g though. The MW output and ability to knock down cover is really nice.

Yeah big G command as true value at least it's significantly better than the generic one... I'm really thinking  if i play the MK i'm gonna play it with fast un and gryph feather charge for the extra move, and kill satellite units early game before going for the main body.

[Fastbear]

15 hours ago, Malakree said:

@Fastbear I'm also finding that the standard cabbage is mediocre. I really like big g though. The MW output and ability to knock down cover is really nice.

Fyi you can only use 1 of each warbeat each turn just in case you missed that.

Is your shaman running the double cast ability? If so grabbing wrath of gork and having a unit of 5 and a unit of 10 ardboys gives you the 2 extra dice but also gives you the small unit for home objective protection.

Definately looks solid though, those units of 6 ggs are evil with the +1 dmg! I'm looking at getting a 3rd Warchanter and running a Gorefist with big g 😁

On the warbeats i just figured that the healing warbeat is pretty bad, especially without the cabbage. So i just prefer to have more options to where i send the plus to hit.

Shaman is running the 2 plus to cast, not the double cast. Casting hand of gork on a 6up isnt as reliable as i would like so i opted for a 5 up instead.

I'm still trying to work the unit sizes. Could do 15,10,5 on the arboys and 9,6 on the Gore Gruntas.
Another option is to run the doublecast on the shaman, and run 5 ardboys less and play geminids instead.

But i will do some more play testing with this list and figure out what adjustments i would like to do. 
 

[Jabbuk]

15 hours ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

warchanter general with brutish kunin (free Mighty D) and daubing of mork 110pts

Hey man, I believe this list is not legal as you cannot choose traits and artefacts for the warchanter anymore. They are for Megaboss and Weirdnob only (they have their own specific tables). The only artefacts you can put on a Warchanter are the Realm specific ones.

[Malakree]

At blood and Glory with big WAAAGH! 0-3 on the first day 😥

First game was vs terradan, super close game came down to priorities and he squeaked a major with 1 vp in the final turn.

Game 2 was vs 30 hearthguard on starstrike. Stars landed in a blob under the hearthguard, real boring nothing of note happened.

Game 3 was against cities, I thought the handgunners were the scary part of the list so activated in the wrong order. Only got 5 attacks from my ardboy boss onto his greatswords not 32 at 3s/2s(rr)/-1/2...got mopped up after they minced 10 ardboys and 6ggs in a single round of combat.

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
- General
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Killa Beat

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133

This is my list. Conclusions from day 1.

I hate not having MD as a CA and miss SnB so much.

Brutes are so mediocre, I'd gladly trade the unit of 10 for 15 ardboys, that +2 to charge is massive.

Combine with dropping the unit of 5 for 3 more ggs and I'd feel so much better about the list.

I miss the ironsunz hero phase charge.

The list I was planning on running was a Da Choppas list but I forgot a weirdnob and 5 ardboys so couldn't run it. Probably last time I play big WAAAGH! Outside of tech lists which are using it for some cheeky stuff. Im definately an IJ player not a big WAAAGH!

 

Edit: Day 2 was utterly irrelevant. 2 curbstompings vs ppl who didn't know how to play the game...I should not be on bottom tables after round 3 anymore 😅

Edited November 3, 2019 by Malakree

[Drew64]

Hi,

I've been really keen on getting into IJ as i was wanting amore elite army after painting a million ghosts for my Nighthaunt.

I've been scanning lists and everything seems to heavily involve 'Ard-boyz. I assume because 'Ardfist is bonkers.
Is is possible to make a viable IJ/big waagh list based around Brutes? they are some of my favourite models in the range.

Also, if i run brutes are dual choppas the option to take?

[Malakree]

8 hours ago, Drew64 said:

Hi,

I've been really keen on getting into IJ as i was wanting amore elite army after painting a million ghosts for my Nighthaunt.

I've been scanning lists and everything seems to heavily involve 'Ard-boyz. I assume because 'Ardfist is bonkers.
Is is possible to make a viable IJ/big waagh list based around Brutes? they are some of my favourite models in the range.

Also, if i run brutes are dual choppas the option to take?

Dw is strictly better at 5, 2h and dw are equivalent at 10 so yeah really it's better to have the dual Choppas.

Sadly brutes are a bit overcosted given their lack of extras compared to ggs/ardboys. GGs are amazing and ardboys are solid buff targets.

There hasn't really been THAT much exploration of brute lists because most of us don't own that quantity of brutes and those that do haven't really tried out a brutefist list I believe. We're to early into the book release to have actually explored the less obvious lists.

If I had to guess it's either a brutefist in ironsunz or something in da Choppas. Maybe something wonkey like this.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Choppas
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
- Trait: Checked Out
- Artefact: The Golden Toof/Boss Skewer
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 169

So you can pop the CA to buff up all your brute units, combine with the +2 bravery trait, maybe boss skewer, you're now rocking a reasonable bravery stat. Honestly though it's tricky, they needed to be ~10/20 points cheaper to be solid.

 

EDIT: The issue really comes down to the fact GGs are just so much better for 20 points.

+1 Bravery, +5" move, MW impact hits, lose the 7 attacks at 4+/3+/-1/2 but gain 12 attacks at 4(3)+/4(3)+/-/1.

Brutes are just sitting ducks for both shooting/magic and opponents charges, GGs will basically always be initiating the combat which combined with SnB gives you such a massive advantage.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Malakree

[ShaneHobbes]

31 minutes ago, Drew64 said:

Hi,

I've been really keen on getting into IJ as i was wanting amore elite army after painting a million ghosts for my Nighthaunt.

I've been scanning lists and everything seems to heavily involve 'Ard-boyz. I assume because 'Ardfist is bonkers.
Is is possible to make a viable IJ/big waagh list based around Brutes? they are some of my favourite models in the range.

Also, if i run brutes are dual choppas the option to take?

IMO Ironjawz right now are built around Warchanters and Ardboyz. Gordrak/less degree MegaBoss on Maw Krusha and Gore-Gruntas after that.

Brutes are just there as cheap filler at best.

I dont think anyone really uses the Megaboss on foot?

I still plan on playing around with some Brutefist lists though because well they look awesome and I'm gonna use them damn it.

[Malakree]

12 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

I still plan on playing around with some Brutefist lists though because well they look awesome and I'm gonna use them damn it.

The list Leo went 5-0 with to win bloodshed in the shires had a Footboss and no megaboss.

[Backbreaker]

14 hours ago, Malakree said:

I miss the ironsunz hero phase charge.

If I remember correctly, you can charge at the end of your opponent's charge phase, not during his hero phase, right ? I have the book in french and we often have mis translation.

I really don't understand how to beat slaanesh. In fact, it has become so frustrating to have an army with so much lack of balance that I stopped tournaments/playing AoS and we're having fun playing narrative game with Warcry. Such shame since we finally have a book haha

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Backbreaker said:

If I remember correctly, you can charge at the end of your opponent's charge phase, not during his hero phase, right ? I have the book in french and we often have mis translation.

I really don't understand how to beat slaanesh. In fact, it has become so frustrating to have an army with so much lack of balance that I stopped tournaments/playing AoS and we're having fun playing narrative game with Warcry. Such shame since we finally have a book haha

You're right, yesterday was a long day so my brain was frazzled. It's charge at the end of your opponents charge phase.

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

21 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

Hey man, I believe this list is not legal as you cannot choose traits and artefacts for the warchanter anymore. They are for Megaboss and Weirdnob only (they have their own specific tables). The only artefacts you can put on a Warchanter are the Realm specific ones.

So not really an issue, plus something i toyed with:  Give shaman the plus one spell general trait and give the +1 to wound spell.

 

I will have a relic wasted most likely. TO requires to stick to one set of relics and i want spell reliability 

 

Now, onto actual army building,  could someone give advice? Something of actual substance.

[Jabbuk]

On 11/1/2019 at 7:02 PM, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

Megaboss on mawkrusha with riptooth fist and mean un. Has ironclad and scales of ignax. 460pts

2x warchanters. killa and get'em beat. KIlla beat chanter has termalrider cloak. 220pts

1x weirdnob with the teleport. 110pts

 

15 x ardboyz with +2 bravery banner and 2 -1 bravery ones. 270pts.

10 x ardboyz with +2 bravery banner and -1 bravery one. 180pts.

3 gruntas with spears. 160pts.

 

Ironfist. 160pts

Extra cp 50pts.

 

1500 on the dot.

Some comment on the first list: it's a fairly classic list, it's heavier on ardboys so it'll be more durable for sure. Always depends on what your strategy is. I would say though that your GGs in groups of 3 should have the pig iron choppas because the "missile" effect of the charge is less impactful when they're in groups of three than in groups of 6. I guess you want them to be more of a strategic anvil so choppas will get you more benefits in the long run. 

I don't know about the extra CP at 1500pts. It might be better to drop the shaman and add in another group of gruntas to make it 6, so you can focus your ardboys on being anvils. Just a few things to think about. The shaman is often a total waste for me. Never casts HoG when I need it, while gruntas never disappoint in their brutality.

Also, if you're Ironsunz, you'll get that extra CP anyway.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Jabbuk

[Tezia99]

On 11/1/2019 at 4:02 PM, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

 

LIST A:

 

Megaboss on mawkrusha with riptooth fist and mean un. Has ironclad and scales of ignax. 460pts

2x warchanters. killa and get'em beat. KIlla beat chanter has termalrider cloak. 220pts

1x weirdnob with the teleport. 110pts

 

15 x ardboyz with +2 bravery banner and 2 -1 bravery ones. 270pts.

10 x ardboyz with +2 bravery banner and -1 bravery one. 180pts.

3 gruntas with spears. 160pts.

 

Ironfist. 160pts

Extra cp 50pts.

This is 1560 without the extra CP or 1610 with it. Not sure if you’re trying to create a 1500 list or just the basis for something as well. 

[Kasper]

19 hours ago, Malakree said:

At blood and Glory with big WAAAGH! 0-3 on the first day 😥

First game was vs terradan, super close game came down to priorities and he squeaked a major with 1 vp in the final turn.

Game 2 was vs 30 hearthguard on starstrike. Stars landed in a blob under the hearthguard, real boring nothing of note happened.

Game 3 was against cities, I thought the handgunners were the scary part of the list so activated in the wrong order. Only got 5 attacks from my ardboy boss onto his greatswords not 32 at 3s/2s(rr)/-1/2...got mopped up after they minced 10 ardboys and 6ggs in a single round of combat.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Choppas

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- General
- Trait: Checked Out
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Killa Beat

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
 

This is my list. Conclusions from day 1.

I hate not having MD as a CA and miss SnB so much.

Brutes are so mediocre, I'd gladly trade the unit of 10 for 15 ardboys, that +2 to charge is massive.

Combine with dropping the unit of 5 for 3 more ggs and I'd feel so much better about the list.

I miss the ironsunz hero phase charge.

The list I was planning on running was a Da Choppas list but I forgot a weirdnob and 5 ardboys so couldn't run it. Probably last time I play big WAAAGH! Outside of tech lists which are using it for some cheeky stuff. Im definately an IJ player not a big WAAAGH!

 

Edit: Day 2 was utterly irrelevant. 2 curbstompings vs ppl who didn't know how to play the game...I should not be on bottom tables after round 3 anymore 😅

Dont you ever run into issues having put all your eggs in one basket? Arent opponents with quite a few Endless spells gonna be trouble with zero unbinding/dispells?

What about plague monks or witches? Wont they just run in and mob your units?

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

12 minutes ago, Tezia99 said:

This is 1560 without the extra CP or 1610 with it. Not sure if you’re trying to create a 1500 list or just the basis for something as well. 

It is c) a typo for 1 warchanter at 110pts.