Malakree Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, tolstedt said: It would be a possible fix to add an errata "You may never have more than five units of 'ardboyz in this battalion on the battlefield." Gz you made it "Slightly" less user friendly. Quote Allegiance: Big Waaagh!Mortal Realm: HyshLeadersOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- General- Trait: Dead Kunnin'- Artefact: Great Green Visions- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of GorkOrruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatWurrgog Prophet (160)- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War CryOrruk Warchanter (110)Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- AlliesFungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- AlliesBattleline3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron ChoppasUnits5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)BattalionsArdfist (120)Ardfist (120)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 1980 / 2000Extra Command Points: 3Allies: 180 / 400Wounds: 138 Now I'll have to Green puke 2 understrength Ardboy units, that way when the first is full I move onto the second. EDIT: Hell even this list to make sure you get the double puke. Spoiler Allegiance: Big Waaagh!Mortal Realm: HyshLeadersOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- General- Trait: Dead Kunnin'- Artefact: Great Green Visions- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of GorkOrruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatWurrgog Prophet (160)- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War CryOrruk Warchanter (110)Wurrgog Prophet (160)- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War CryWurrgog Prophet (160)- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War CryBattleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)Units5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)BattalionsArdfist (120)Ardfist (120)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 3Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 139 Edited October 29, 2019 by Malakree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 i would use something like this. Stupid but still not that stupid Spoiler Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: HyshMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- Boss Gore-hacka and ChoppaOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- Artefact: Aetherquartz BroochOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- General- Trait: Dead Kunnin'- Artefact: Great Green Visions10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron Choppas5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute Choppas5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)Ardfist (120)Ironfist (160)Extra Command Point (50)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 3Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 127 use 1 ardboys, puke twice on him, then summon 40-50 and put them. Add another weirnob and/or use shamanic skull cape for more consistency. You start with 120 life, if you succed you have 200+ and deep strike potentiel. And you still have a relativly "normal' army 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, broche said: i would use something like this. Stupid but still not that stupid use 1 ardboys, puke twice on him, then summon 40-50 and put them. Add another weirnob and/or use shamanic skull cape for more consistency. You start with 120 life, if you succed you have 200+ and deep strike potentiel. And you still have a relativly "normal' army Honestly I think there are two routes with it. You either go all in on the stupid or you don't run stupid at all instead going with a "normal" style ardfist. Trying to do both just leaves you with a version of the stupid list which is less likely to go off. In your case you're averaging 2-6 on the first turn with maybe 2 units over the rest of the game but no CPs for things like mighty destroyers. My list is putting down 4-8 turn 1 and another ~2 every turn. When you look at the difference between the two after that. You have a mawkrusha and 3 Goregruntas. I have a wurgog, 3 fungoids and 5 extra brutes. If you avoid going for the abusive side you can put down something which is going to play a way more "fair" game and has the Ardfist as a option not a strategy. Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: HyshLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- General- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa- Trait: Brutish Cunning- Artefact: Daubing of Mork- Mount Trait: Weird 'UnOrruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Aetherquartz BroochOrruk Warchanter (110)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)Battleline15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)- Pig-iron ChoppasUnits5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)BattalionsArdfist (120)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 143 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I honestly have a hard time seeing Ardfist being worthwhile at all. We are so starved for CPs between Ironsunz CA and Mighty Destroyers to move/fight in hero phase etc., that spending CPs to bring Ardboyz units onto the board is probably worse than having a proper list where you buff your current units and spend CPs to fight in the combat phase etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skumbaagh Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Kasper said: I honestly have a hard time seeing Ardfist being worthwhile at all. We are so starved for CPs between Ironsunz CA and Mighty Destroyers to move/fight in hero phase etc., that spending CPs to bring Ardboyz units onto the board is probably worse than having a proper list where you buff your current units and spend CPs to fight in the combat phase etc. Waaiit for it! (incoming math from Malakree) Also, with that many ardboys you really dont need to fight in the hero phase. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Kasper said: I honestly have a hard time seeing Ardfist being worthwhile at all. We are so starved for CPs between Ironsunz CA and Mighty Destroyers to move/fight in hero phase etc., that spending CPs to bring Ardboyz units onto the board is probably worse than having a proper list where you buff your current units and spend CPs to fight in the combat phase etc. I think Ardfist is not the best match with ironsunz honestly. But it's certainly the most potent bataillion we have IMO. Of course it's all theory because i doubt I'll ever play it due to the insane amount of Ardboys needed. Still fact is, summoning mechanic are quite powerfull. It doesnt prevent you from using Mighty destroyer. It just give you the extra ability to convert each CP. A lot of current top army have no mean of sniping him. Mighty destroyer is a powerful ability, but kind of has 'win more tag'. Meaning if you are able to activate it 2-3 time, that mean you still have model on the table and probably in pretty good shape overall. On the other hand, let say your sitting with 3 CP (and obviously the brooch) and get double turned against Slanesh loosing a big chunk of your army, I'll clearly spend 3-4 command point to try to bring 10-20 more ardboys. CP will resplendish quickly enough on your turn anyway. If you drop the Maw Krusha (which I think is the best option for the most competitive army), It's not that hard to fit both an Ironfist and a Ardfist (until Ardfist get FAQ'ed). You can then have the best of both world. Use small squad of ardboys to screen and die, support them with nearby squad of Brutes to counterattack, and some gruntas for hammer. You can start with something like this: Spoiler Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: HyshOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- GeneralOrruk Warchanter (110)Orruk Warchanter (110)6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)- Pig-iron Choppas5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute Choppas5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute Choppas5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)Ardfist (120)Ironfist (160)Total: 1590 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 114 use dead kunning, great green vision and aetherquartz brooch. Fill the remaining 400 pts with what suit you and I'm pretty sure you'll have good result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skumbaagh Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 The posibility to countercharge and the -1 in the first BR makes the ironsunz my goto choice. Gorefist to push up the board asap and cogs for those table edge deployments. Gravetide and 10 ardboys to get the green puke off on one poor sod. 7 drops Got 70 ardboys painted and good to go! Probably enough for the first turn anyway =D Allegiance: Ironjawz- Warclan: IronsunzMortal Realm: HyshOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- General- Trait: Dead Kunnin'- Artefact: Great Green Visions- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of GorkOrruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch- Warbeat: Killa BeatOrruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Lens of Refraction- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatFungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- AlliesFungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- AlliesFungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- Allies10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron ChoppasArdfist (120)Gorefist (130)Extra Command Point (50)Chronomantic Cogs (80)Suffocating Gravetide (20)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 3Allies: 270 / 400Wounds: 130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 So it's looking like everyone is choosing ardboys over brutes, eh? That's soo sad... GW should have dropped those models when Ironjawz first dropped. They're great, dont get me wrong, but I can't help but feel that this is wrong in some way... 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaneHobbes Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vasshpit said: So it's looking like everyone is choosing ardboys over brutes, eh? That's soo sad... GW should have dropped those models when Ironjawz first dropped. They're great, dont get me wrong, but I can't help but feel that this is wrong in some way... 🤔 I feel like Brutes should be 120 pts like Hearthguard Beserkers at the moment. Also wish Brutes made enemy units -1 bravery moreso than Arsboyz banner. I mean they're big ol mean Brutes. For 20 pts more you can get the vastly better Gore-Gruntas. Need less expensive unit? Unit of 5 ardboyz then. I just dont understand what role Brutes have in the current IJ army that cant be done better elsewhere which depresses me greatly since Brutes are what drew me to IJ in the first place. Also is it just me or do Brutes have the most boring Warscroll in the game, especially for an "elite" unit. Sorry for the rant fest just want Brutes to get some love Edited October 30, 2019 by ShaneHobbes 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 The big problem I have with Brutes is the same ones I've always had. Bravery 6 Low model count Bravery 6 Super vulnerable to battleshock Bravery 6 Slow but unlike Ardboys doesn't have a random +2 to charge Bravery 6 The same as Ardboys in terms of buffs ..... Lower survivability due to not having shields ..... Bravery 6 3 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaneHobbes Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Malakree said: The big problem I have with Brutes is the same ones I've always had. Bravery 6 Low model count Bravery 6 Super vulnerable to battleshock Bravery 6 Slow but unlike Ardboys doesn't have a random +2 to charge Bravery 6 The same as Ardboys in terms of buffs ..... Lower survivability due to not having shields ..... Bravery 6 If they were just bravery 7. Also I'd love for them to have an ability like where I'd they kill a model in the combat phase they get to reroll their battleshock test, or maybe even make them immune if they kill a certain number of models. Something than just a situational and boring +1 to hit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, ShaneHobbes said: I feel like Brutes should be 120 pts like Hearthguard Beserkers at the moment. Also wish Brutes made enemy units -1 bravery moreso than Arsboyz banner. I mean they're big ol mean Brutes. For 20 pts more you can get the vastly better Gore-Gruntas. Need less expensive unit? Unit of 5 ardboyz then. I just dont understand what role Brutes have in the current IJ army that cant be done better elsewhere which depresses me greatly since Brutes are what drew me to IJ in the first place. Also is it just me or do Brutes have the most boring Warscroll in the game, especially for an "elite" unit. Sorry for the rant fest just want Brutes to get some love Honestly. The changes that Brutes need are Bravery 7. 3+ Save Some sort of special rule to increase their mobility. "If the unmodified charge roll for a unit of Brutes is less than a 7, increase it to 7" -2 Rend Any 2 of the above would make them much better. Then again I'm of the opinion that Mad as Hell should have read. Quote At the end of any phase, if any wounds or mortal wounds have been inflicted in that phase on an Ironjawz unit that is more than 9" from any enemy units, that Ironjawz unit can move d6". In addition while any Ironjawz unit is within 9" of an enemy unit it has a Bravery Characteristic of 10. That and -2 Rend would make Brutes worth it. They become the slow moving hammer compared to the speed of GG's and the sturdiness of Ardboys. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaneHobbes Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Malakree said: Honestly. The changes that Brutes need are Bravery 7. 3+ Save Some sort of special rule to increase their mobility. "If the unmodified charge roll for a unit of Brutes is less than a 7, increase it to 7" -2 Rend Any 2 of the above would make them much better. Then again I'm of the opinion that Mad as Hell should have read. That and -2 Rend would make Brutes worth it. They become the slow moving hammer compared to the speed of GG's and the sturdiness of Ardboys. All we have to do is wait 2-4 years for GW to update Ironjawz warscrolls again. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Almost like they buffed everything in the Ironjawz start collecting on purpose... 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incredebilis Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Do 5 Brutes do better than 10 Ardboys against something with >4 wounds or are they worse there as well? Edited October 30, 2019 by Incredebilis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanoss Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 If Brutes got a “If any models from this unit flee and the Boss from the Unit is alive, instead, inflict D3 mortal wounds onto the unit and no models flee as the Boss thumps the cowardly Orruk back into the fight” THAT... would make them amazing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaneHobbes Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Incredebilis said: Do 5 Brutes do better than 10 Ardboys against something with >4 wounds or are they worse there as well? Yes but to be honest the average damage of Brutes compared to Ardboyz isn't very significant even against an enemy with 4+ wounds. Combine that with Ardboyz utility of their banners and drums and being even more resisilant because of shields... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Honestly i don't think there is much to rant right now about Brutes except the fact that their warscroll is a bit boring (and that they have 6 bravery) What do you guys think of Fast'un? I'm starting to think that if I use the Maw Krusha, I might go for less damage and more mobility. With Fast'un and gryph feather charm for exemple is not a bad mix. The +3'' become +6'' with Migthy destroyer. Treath range like artillery! Edited October 30, 2019 by broche 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanoss Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Agree, not to rant but Certainly boring Would just add some flavour to them haha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said: Yes but to be honest the average damage of Brutes compared to Ardboyz isn't very significant even against an enemy with 4+ wounds. Combine that with Ardboyz utility of their banners and drums and being even more resisilant because of shields... Brutes do significantly more damage than ardboys. around 35% without hit bonus or 70% with it (15 ardboys vs 10 brutes) Ardboys do get more utility rule (bravery buff/debuff, shield, charge bonus). Brutes might get better if the new tomb king become more prevalent (they have lot of 4+ wound Nasty unit that you need to one shot or they come back) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzgurbel Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just buff a unit of Brutes with +1 damage and they can't wipe away even a KoS. Dunno, but I see them amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superninja Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) I've won the last 3 games against my friend and he is not happy. He thinks we are completely OP now. Granted, I've run some pretty 'serious' lists, but we don't have a ton of variety. (Going to go for less command point creation/recursion next time) Warchanters are crazy good. The end. Edited October 31, 2019 by Superninja 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krallkontir Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I would like to run a list that can summon extra bodies through ardfist but also has a few other tricks up its sleeve. Some punch with Brutes and Goregruntas and a magical battery powered by an Rogue Idol (who can also smash face). Starts the game with up to 4 CP (2 guaranteed) and can propel a unit of ardboyz with hand of gork into a suicidal charge. Until then, they act as batteries for Wrath of Gork. What do others think? Allegiance: Big Waaagh!Mortal Realm: HyshLeadersOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- General- Trait: Bursting with Power- Artefact: Great Green Visions- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of GorkWurrgog Prophet (160)- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War CryOrruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch- Warbeat: Get 'Em BeatOrruk Warchanter (110)- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatFungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- AlliesBattleline5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute Choppas- 1x Gore Choppas5 x Orruk Brutes (140)- Pair of Brute Choppas- 1x Gore Choppas6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)- Pig-iron ChoppasUnits5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)- 1x Gorkamorka Banner BearersBehemothsRogue Idol (400)BattalionsArdfist (120)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsScuttletide (30)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 90 / 400Wounds: 135 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Quick rule question, can Shadespire orc now be include in battalions (i think they can't trigger Ardfist ability cause key word is in bold or something like that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, broche said: I think Ardfist is not the best match with ironsunz honestly. But it's certainly the most potent bataillion we have IMO. Of course it's all theory because i doubt I'll ever play it due to the insane amount of Ardboys needed. Still fact is, summoning mechanic are quite powerfull. It doesnt prevent you from using Mighty destroyer. It just give you the extra ability to convert each CP. A lot of current top army have no mean of sniping him. Mighty destroyer is a powerful ability, but kind of has 'win more tag'. Meaning if you are able to activate it 2-3 time, that mean you still have model on the table and probably in pretty good shape overall. On the other hand, let say your sitting with 3 CP (and obviously the brooch) and get double turned against Slanesh loosing a big chunk of your army, I'll clearly spend 3-4 command point to try to bring 10-20 more ardboys. CP will resplendish quickly enough on your turn anyway. I don't see Mighty Destroyers as a "win more" ability at all, but I think the "issue" is that most of us have played Ironjawz as an alphastrike list that can't take a lot of punch. After having watched Leo Rautonen play his Ironjawz vs Slaanesh, I could certainly see a much slower and defensive playstyle with tons of Ardboyz where you let your opponent get the double turn and you sort of rely on your opponent to charge you, then countercharge important hammer units with Ironsunz CA and when your turn rolls around you have a load of stuff locked in combat during the hero phase and ready to smash. Edited October 31, 2019 by Kasper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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