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AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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7 hours ago, Malakree said:

He's mediocre in a book where the warchanter exists.

Comparing it with Warchanter is irrelevant. Warchanter is a pure support character. Megaboss is more on par to a 5-squad brutes (similar cost, exact same move, and  somewhat equivalent damage but with a different curve). Different strength and weakness, but there is some situation where he will worth it over 5 brutes (see summary above)

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3 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

I actually checked the Ironskull's Warscroll and the ability Paired Choppas on their profile says that they add 1 to hit rolls for attacks with a pair of ardboys Choppas. That's actually really good, they have a 2+/3+/-1/1. That's freaking good. 

I stand corrected. I knew it was there but for some reason when I scanned to double check I thought it was the classic "2 weapons RR1s to hit".

5 hours ago, Fuggorf said:

What about a world where you're Bloodtoofs and you want your cabbage to have a real artefact?

In my mind he serves the same role as the weirdnob (using a clutch hand of gork) and is also handy in a scrap.

See, we keep coming up with more reasons! 

2 hours ago, broche said:

Comparing it with Warchanter is irrelevant. Warchanter is a pure support character. Megaboss is more on par to a 5-squad brutes (similar cost, exact same move, and  somewhat equivalent damage but with a different curve). Different strength and weakness, but there is some situation where he will worth it over 5 brutes (see summary above)

Exactly, he's not a "Hero" (As opposed to Hero). He's a more aggressive Brute variant and should be treated as such.

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I did a (very quick) list, mainly Ironjawz but based more around magic. I think you don't have choice going big waaagh for bonus to cast, so you can consistently do a hand of gork on a weirnob and position for blazing eye + Purple sun. In fact blazing eye might not be the best choice, as 4d6'' is just  14'' average and you start at 9''

Weirdfist is just to reduce drop, cp and extra artefact. 

in fact I wanted to use the Bursting with power but it seem you cannot in da Big waagh?

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Lore of the Weird: Da Blazin' Eyes
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Savage Boarboys (130)
- Chompas
Weirdfist (140)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139
 

 

Edited by broche
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20 minutes ago, Lanoss said:

What’s the consensus here?

In an Ironjawz army, can we take Bonesplitterz units?

Can said Bonesplitterz units take their artefacts or spells?

If Bonesplitterz units must be taken as allies, can the allied unit take a spell from their lore?

If it’s allies then no they can’t take any spell lore or artifacts. 

Really if you want to run both sets of units big waagh is the platform (and very good as well). One of the reasons I love the new book is that to me all 3 allegiances are very playable. To the point where I plan to add some bonesplitterz now and combine them into a big waaagh then probably expand so I can also run them solo. 

That way I will have access to all 3 allegiances for when I want to run different builds. 

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2 hours ago, broche said:

in fact I wanted to use the Bursting with power but it seem you cannot in da Big waagh?

You definitely should be able to. If the weirdnob is your general, it's an Ironjawz General in a Big Waaagh! army and therefore can take an IJ command trait as usual.

Have you thought about trying to squeeze in the new rogue idol? The +1 to cast is just within 6" so it's not hyper restrictive with the balewind. Not to mention that it's super gross with both the Big Waaagh! abilities and any BS/IJ buff combos.

That would make Wrath of Gork more easily accessible with Shamanistic Skullcape bringing the weirdnob up to +2 to cast. (+3 if you want to sacrifice your command trait for it). Suddenly that CV8 is now only a CV6 and honestly the Gattling Cannon of Gork is pretty daft when it goes off, even in your list it's ~8 mortal wounds per cast.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Bursting with Power
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (140)

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (400)

Battalions
Weirdfist (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

You are sacrificing quite a lot to have both it and the MK though :S so it might be an either/or situation :( 

This list drops the Cabbage and Weirdfist for a Rogue Idol, Umbral Spell Portal and a slightly different hero setup. That umbral spell portal is tasty with Da Blazin Eyes.

Quote

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Bursting with Power
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Kunnin' Beast Spirits
Maniak Weirdnob (120)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Savage Boarboys (130)
- Chompas

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (400)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 145

 

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@Malakree In fact i built the list super quick i did not put that much tought in it. I don't dislike the idea of Rogue idol (except I don't own the model, and actually don't really like the Idol aestetic but that is just me ) .  In fact I really like spell portal I think. It's quite expensive, but it's one of the few ways to leverage green puke. Portal + wrath of gork + blazing eye + double puke is actually a lot of mortal wound, and your not commiting your weirnob

In fact my play was almost suicide the first shaman so maybe making him general is not that good. I was even considering charging with it to put more damage with Purple sun/spell. Problem with Purple sun is that it's actually very good against army with lots of model, but not so good againts some army like 3 terrorgheist FEC.

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My revised list would look like:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Bursting with Power
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of Gork
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of Gork
Wardokk (80)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Savage Orruk Morboys (120)
Weirdfist (140)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143
 

I think the list can play both offensive or defensive. You could take turn 1, and go for hand of gork on weirnob, balewind + wrath + purple sun + double puke (using casting bonus wisely). Use wardock to cast mystic shield on MK (hopefully with a +1) .  In 18'' battleplan you can engage the MK to pin the front line, and with weird un you won't fear too much the Purple sun. You could also play defensive and react to what opponent is doing and go more for the long game, leverageing the late buff from Big waaagh.

I beileve FEC would be the trickest match up for the list, but at the end it's look like fun to play and tons of option.

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I've been tinkering with a list trying to balance between maximizing the probability of casting Wrath of Gork and increasing its damage while forcing the opponent to prioritize differing threats. Gordrakk hits like an absolute wrecking ball, only getting stronger while the game lasts. Meanwhile, you have a souped up Weirdnob that can character snipe. All the while, there's a powerhouse unit of 6 gore gruntas that will be beefed up by the warchanter and Gordrakk's command ability. All CC welcome. Originally, I wanted to run this as a pure IJ list, but I needed the flexibilty of adding +2 to the WoG cast while potentially getting up to +1 to hit and +1 to wound army wide and a 6+ FNP if the weirdnob gets sniped early.

 

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
Lore of the Weird: Wrath of Gork
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Great Green Visions
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork


Battleline
6 x Gore Gruntas (320)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Gore Gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Gore Gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122

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Not sure if you guys have seen it but Doom&Darkness talks with Vince Venturella about Orruks Warclans lists and in the Big Waaagh! one, Vince takes for granted (I think) the fact that you can take Ironfist and use Mighty Destroyers no problem. 

Here's the link to the excellent podcast:

 

Edited by Jabbuk
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Am I the only one very disappointed with the new book? No own scenary, no endless spells, no new models at all (despite the fact that even the old Wurrzag is still in the book), no VS box set (Sylvaneth vs Gloomspite, FeC vs Skavens, Slaanesh vs Khorne, Stormcast vs Nighthaunt, and I suppose Bonereapers vs Mawtribes).

 

Furthermore, the Waaagh command ability is really awful. You need at least 10 units surrounding your Megaboss to assure the success of the roll. 10 units! And wholly within, of course. I guess I will never use this command ability.

 

What else? Few tribes. Only 3 tribes for each, but I'm an Ironjawz players only (I dislike the concept of the Savage Orruks), so I only have 3 tribes, which, imho, are really bad, specially the Bloodtoofs (my tribe) (although I admit it CA is really tricksty if you manage to get the double turn). Is the Realmgate my "own scenary"? No, so I depend on the randomness of the table to use my General's Trait. Smart.

 

Some good buffs in the case of the Ardboys, always IMHO, reducting to 5 min size and merging up the weapon profiles. Very easy for the army to hit (and wound) on 2+. Pure strength, as it should be.

 

But the items and the trais are... Forgetable. The Ironclad+Etheral Amulet on a MK is really cool. The Destroyer can make the MK kill anything with easyness. The Brutish Cunning + Ironfist ability is really helpful in order to save points (for rerolling charges, oc).

 

To sum up, I see some good stuff (hello attacks buffed MK 2+ unrending healing each turn), but in a nutshell, I see a lot of weak points. I don't really see how to beat the triple KoS, for instance.

 

Just my 2 cents, change my mind. Specially about the Waaagh CA.

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24 minutes ago, Luzgurbel said:

Am I the only one very disappointed with the new book? No own scenary, no endless spells, no new models at all (despite the fact that even the old Wurrzag is still in the book), no VS box set (Sylvaneth vs Gloomspite, FeC vs Skavens, Slaanesh vs Khorne, Stormcast vs Nighthaunt, and I suppose Bonereapers vs Mawtribes).

 

Furthermore, the Waaagh command ability is really awful. You need at least 10 units surrounding your Megaboss to assure the success of the roll. 10 units! And wholly within, of course. I guess I will never use this command ability.

 

What else? Few tribes. Only 3 tribes for each, but I'm an Ironjawz players only (I dislike the concept of the Savage Orruks), so I only have 3 tribes, which, imho, are really bad, specially the Bloodtoofs (my tribe) (although I admit it CA is really tricksty if you manage to get the double turn). Is the Realmgate my "own scenary"? No, so I depend on the randomness of the table to use my General's Trait. Smart.

 

Some good buffs in the case of the Ardboys, always IMHO, reducting to 5 min size and merging up the weapon profiles. Very easy for the army to hit (and wound) on 2+. Pure strength, as it should be.

 

But the items and the trais are... Forgetable. The Ironclad+Etheral Amulet on a MK is really cool. The Destroyer can make the MK kill anything with easyness. The Brutish Cunning + Ironfist ability is really helpful in order to save points (for rerolling charges, oc).

 

To sum up, I see some good stuff (hello attacks buffed MK 2+ unrending healing each turn), but in a nutshell, I see a lot of weak points. I don't really see how to beat the triple KoS, for instance.

 

Just my 2 cents, change my mind. Specially about the Waaagh CA.

Regarding the Waaagh: Its always +1 Attack, +2 If you meet the rather steep requirements. So might be a lot better than you think, depending on how you understood the wording (seems like you think its +0 Attacks if you roll under 11?)

Also, when playing strictly by GHB Rules you can always bring your own Realmgate - although most Tourneys I know, houserule the terrain part to speed up setup...

Also, also the Warchanters +1 Damage Chant seems to be a real game changer, especially on Gruntas and Ardboys with their many 1Damage attacks. Statistically its better than +1 Attack on most Units and break even on Ardboys and still better on Gruntas compared to +2 Attacks - and it does not cost a CP and can´t fail.

Edited by Primes
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21 minutes ago, Luzgurbel said:

To sum up, I see some good stuff (hello attacks buffed MK 2+ unrending healing each turn), but in a nutshell, I see a lot of weak points. I don't really see how to beat the triple KoS, for instance.

 

Just my 2 cents, change my mind. Specially about the Waaagh CA.

This is going to sound a little conceited but I think unless you were running my Gordrakk Bloodtoofs list I think the book is more of a side grade rather than a nerf.

The new WAAAGH! Is mediocre but a guaranteed +1 attack on everything wholly within 18" isn't terrible. The only bit which can fail is the +2 which needs a roll of 12+

The 3 warclans are each reasonably solid, pending the errata to fix the bloodtoofs trait. The generic traits/artefacts are a bit meh and I can't see many people not taking a clan for them.

The lack of extras definately annoyed the hell out of me. We got second fiddle to the cities book which got new boxes etc. 

We beat KoS the same way we always did. Buff up, smashing and bashing off something else and blow them up. In that regard the Warchanter made it easier. GGs charging on 13 attacks at 2+/3+/-1/2 is way more likely to kill a mid size unit than it used to and a buffed cabbage is horrific now. 8 attacks on 2+/3+/-2/4 is equivalent to the old bomb turn.

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6 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

Am I the only one very disappointed with the new book? No own scenary, no endless spells, no new models at all (despite the fact that even the old Wurrzag is still in the book), no VS box set (Sylvaneth vs Gloomspite, FeC vs Skavens, Slaanesh vs Khorne, Stormcast vs Nighthaunt, and I suppose Bonereapers vs Mawtribes).

 

Furthermore, the Waaagh command ability is really awful. You need at least 10 units surrounding your Megaboss to assure the success of the roll. 10 units! And wholly within, of course. I guess I will never use this command ability.

 

What else? Few tribes. Only 3 tribes for each, but I'm an Ironjawz players only (I dislike the concept of the Savage Orruks), so I only have 3 tribes, which, imho, are really bad, specially the Bloodtoofs (my tribe) (although I admit it CA is really tricksty if you manage to get the double turn). Is the Realmgate my "own scenary"? No, so I depend on the randomness of the table to use my General's Trait. Smart.

 

Some good buffs in the case of the Ardboys, always IMHO, reducting to 5 min size and merging up the weapon profiles. Very easy for the army to hit (and wound) on 2+. Pure strength, as it should be.

 

But the items and the trais are... Forgetable. The Ironclad+Etheral Amulet on a MK is really cool. The Destroyer can make the MK kill anything with easyness. The Brutish Cunning + Ironfist ability is really helpful in order to save points (for rerolling charges, oc).

 

To sum up, I see some good stuff (hello attacks buffed MK 2+ unrending healing each turn), but in a nutshell, I see a lot of weak points. I don't really see how to beat the triple KoS, for instance.

 

Just my 2 cents, change my mind. Specially about the Waaagh CA.

I dunno man, I like everything about it, personally. Of course I would've liked new models, etc. Although I think we'll get some models through Beastgrave. There are new brutes illustrations. But you can't have everything. Orruks are nomads, they destroy everything they see just to prove their supremacy. A piece of terrain would make no sense when you think about it. I hope in time you will see all the options we now have. I'm extremely happy with it because we have so many options and so many builds possible now. Orruks are finally true beasts in close combat and the key units are terrifying, as it should be. 

Before the book, I wanted to go with another army because I thought IJ were too one sided. It was mostly, do the Waaagh bomb, and pray you wipe the opponent. Now with the new book, I feel like we can finally play strategically and more long term in the game, it's less of an all-in or nothing and more of when to use which tool. We have a great arsenal of varied tools available to us and it feels great. That's my opinion though, of course.

Edited by Jabbuk
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So I had my first game with the book tonight and ran the list below - I might have taken an idea or two from @Malakree 😂

I faced Seraphon with the dreaded Thunderquake batallion (dual Bastilladons + Stegadon etc.) and I have always had a bad time against this one. It has always felt like they turtle up in a huge fortress that is almost impossible to break in. Not today! He decided to concede at the end of his turn 2 after Big G killed the Stegador in one round of combat. Smasha (+2 from SFV) making D3 MWs on a 4+ wound roll is honestly quite insane on units without any MW saves.

I completely forgot about the Ironsunz command ability, but honestly wouldn't have made a difference. When it came to his charge phase, my stuff was already locked in. I decided to go second in turn 1 and gambled a little on the double turn, which paid off big time. I misdeployed my Maw Krusha but due to 2 turns in a row he managed to get in where he should.

He teleported a unit of skinks within 12"of Gordrakk in turn 1, which meant I couldn't Mighty Destroyer for an extra movement and hit somewhere weak. He also managed to zap him with the Stegador and obviously rolled a 6 on the D6 MW ability. Ouch! Bad start. It was quite smart really with the teleport of the skinks and I didn't think about the possibility at all when it came to my idea. Honestly when I think of Mighty Destroyers, I never think about the charge part if within 12", only that it moves you and you can fight again in the hero phase if already in combat. Mighty Destroyers is certainly something your opponent can mess with.

Even with the new book I honestly don't like Brutes at all. They are slow as poop compared to Gore Gruntas or the Maw Krushas and they didn't do anything the entire game. I guess they could be useful to have sitting on an objective though, but I would probably rather have Ardboyz for that.

Honestly our Waaagh combined with Warchanters giving +1 damage and Gordrakk giving 3 units +1 to hit ontop is quite insane.  Everything hits on 2s and wounds on 2s or 3s. I don't miss the old Waaagh bomb one bit and I love the possibilities we have now. So pumped for future games!

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Big G (540)
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Lil' G (460)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Talisman of the Watcher
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103

 

Edited by Kasper
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17 minutes ago, Kasper said:

Even with the new book I honestly don't like Brutes at all. They are slow as poop compared to Gore Gruntas or the Maw Krushas and they didn't do anything the entire game. I guess they could be useful to have sitting on an objective though, but I would probably rather have Ardboyz for that.

Ironically I now view them as the cheap frontline infantry unit.

  1. 90 points 5 Ardboys - Backline space control and objective holders. Cheap bodies unit.
  2. 140 points 5 Brutes - Frontline space control and objective holders. It's a reasonably high damave infantry unit that has ok wounds at it's points cost.
  3. 160 points 3 GG's - Easily our best unit. Low on bodies but great in ever other regard.
  4. 180 points 10 Ardboys - The heavy frontline unit, great for soaking buffs and hard to shift.

For their points Brutes are one of the best units to target with buffs. A unit of 5 is making 12 attacks with it's choppas, 3 attacks with it's gore choppa and and 4 attacks from the boss.

That's 19 attacks at 140 points, a unit of 10 Ardboys is 22 attacks by comparison so for things like the Warchanter buff or +1 to hit they are very good receptacles for it at their points value.

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49 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Ironically I now view them as the cheap frontline infantry unit.

  1. 90 points 5 Ardboys - Backline space control and objective holders. Cheap bodies unit.
  2. 140 points 5 Brutes - Frontline space control and objective holders. It's a reasonably high damave infantry unit that has ok wounds at it's points cost.
  3. 160 points 3 GG's - Easily our best unit. Low on bodies but great in ever other regard.
  4. 180 points 10 Ardboys - The heavy frontline unit, great for soaking buffs and hard to shift.

For their points Brutes are one of the best units to target with buffs. A unit of 5 is making 12 attacks with it's choppas, 3 attacks with it's gore choppa and and 4 attacks from the boss.

That's 19 attacks at 140 points, a unit of 10 Ardboys is 22 attacks by comparison so for things like the Warchanter buff or +1 to hit they are very good receptacles for it at their points value.

Brutes might be great all juiced up on paper, but when are you realisticly gonna have it? I feel like Mighty Destroyers is a waste on them. It feels much better slapping the Warchanters +1 on either the MK or GGs and then send either of them flying with a double movement to secure a sweet charge.

Between Waaagh (once a game, sure), Big G's CA and Mighty Destroyer on the MK/GGs, you are kinda starved for CPs and granting Brutes a +4 movement feels really bad to me.

You talked about how sometimes we are forced to take unit X due to how our units are priced. I honestly think my list building is gonna come down to this - I will take Brutes when the points require it. Otherwise I would much rather have the speed of GGs or the coverage of Ardboyz.

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36 minutes ago, Kasper said:

You talked about how sometimes we are forced to take unit X due to how our units are priced. I honestly think my list building is gonna come down to this - I will take Brutes when the points require it. Otherwise I would much rather have the speed of GGs or the coverage of Ardboyz.

Tbh this is more or less where I am. Primarily my point was that they are competing against the 5/10 Ardboy block, in that regard they are a damage output that sits at a happy medium between the two. When I look at them I definitely feel "eh they're alright" but my gut is telling me that they are pretty solid and have a place.

Something like this list is going to be quite a ****** to shift while having serious potential.

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Choppas

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- General
- Trait: Checked Out
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Battalions
Brute Fist (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 148
 

It's a heavy infantry list which is capable of laying down a horrific amount of pain. The extra bravery from Checked out is going to make those battleshocks way less painful, the Fixin Beat is much better on Brutes than on Ardboys because of the extra wounds, the combination of Get 'Em Beat with Vandal Hordes makes their threat range way better putting your charges at 3d6+1 with a free reroll. Equally Vandal Hordes and Brutefist should give you more than a few impact mortal wounds. Even better Da Choppas command Trait can go on any hero meaning you can put it on the warchanter who is moving with the Fist of your Brutefist. 

Oh and Big G plus Rabble Rouser is such a great synergy, put +1 damage on 3 brute units and Big G then give +1 to hit on three of them. Not to mention that you have free choice on both your artefacts. Sure you lose out on the Waaagh! but honestly it's not exactly great and I keep forgetting about it with how meh it is now.

In summery, I think a Brute list can definitely work and has a nice snug list from which to start. Are they the be all and end all, gods no, are they a pretty solid unit which works for it's points cost, I feel like they are.

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I’m really liking this list as well @Malakree  I’m 10 brutes shy of MSU brute fist but while it does seem slow once it’s getting those charges going and smashing kicks in on units of buffed brutes it will be a pretty thing. 

I played your standard double MK list at a tournament last weekend and was really surprised with the different options I had available. Both MKs got in on a Glotkin round one because of poor placement and obliterated him. Then later against Khorne on duality of death they managed to hold the front line for 3 rounds with multiple smashing and bashing’s each combat round. Killed 6 units in one round due to the huge bases, splitting up attacks and being buffed. Killed two different heroes with Kunnin and Smasha. Laid waste to a unit of warriors with fists, bashed over to the MK. Killed korgus with the choppy and a unit of bloodthirsters with the fists. 

It’s got a ton of mobility and strategy to it now. I’m loving the new book. Before it was position kept together save CP.... Bomb.  Now I’ve actually got things to keep track of, and different things can happen in almost every phase so it’s interactive and you can even risk splitting the army up a bit to get some table control.   Big thumbs up for me. 

Edited by Tezia99
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8 hours ago, Malakree said:

<Snip>

Yeah I don't doubt the list have some juicy damage rolling when buffed up, but my issue is still the mobility. Also, no sane person has 40 Brutes, lets be real!!! 😂

As @Tezia99 mentioned above, mobility is just so huge and FUN to play with, and it only gets amplified by Mighty  Destroyers. Having a unit of Brutes go 8 feels so bad to me instead of a unit of GGs go 18 or a MK/Big G go 24. I guess it depends on playstyle, but I simply love that we can be almost anywhere on the map and we don't have to rely on a turn 1 alpha strike plan. I don't mind hanging back a bit and try to see an opening/let my opponent do a mistake and then exploit it. This is also why I love the Ironsunz, the possibility of your opponent doing charges and leaving an opening for you to counter-charge is great.

Edit: Also I don't find Waaagh that back. Sure it isn't what it used to be, but when you have +1 damage and +1 hit/wound ontop, 1 extra attack on multiple attack profiles (again why I fancy GGs and MK) is much stronger than what it sounds like. +1 damage on especially 1 damage profiles really amplifies the damage output.

Edited by Kasper
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18 minutes ago, Kasper said:

Yeah I don't doubt the list have some juicy damage rolling when buffed up, but my issue is still the mobility. Also, no sane person has 40 Brutes, lets be real!!! 😂

As @Tezia99 mentioned above, mobility is just so huge and FUN to play with, and it only gets amplified by Mighty  Destroyers. Having a unit of Brutes go 8 feels so bad to me instead of a unit of GGs go 18 or a MK/Big G go 24. I guess it depends on playstyle, but I simply love that we can be almost anywhere on the map and we don't have to rely on a turn 1 alpha strike plan. I don't mind hanging back a bit and try to see an opening/let my opponent do a mistake and then exploit it. This is also why I love the Ironsunz, the possibility of your opponent doing charges and leaving an opening for you to counter-charge is great.

Edit: Also I don't find Waaagh that back. Sure it isn't what it used to be, but when you have +1 damage and +1 hit/wound ontop, 1 extra attack on multiple attack profiles (again why I fancy GGs and MK) is much stronger than what it sounds like. +1 damage on especially 1 damage profiles really amplifies the damage output.

I think the term I would use for the Waaagh! is "mediocre" so sacrificing it for a good reason isn't terrible. In this case, with that list, you would be using run a lot to increase mobility. Also don't forget the free d6 move per phase, that actually really adds up if used properly. The cheesiest example of this is taking a damned for the RR1's and d6 move in the hero phase then moving next to deadly, pulling the 1/6, then moving another d6". That's a potentially free 12" on your movement, sure it's much more likely to be an extra 3/4" but that takes you from movement 4" to movement 7" which is quite respectable.

There are definitely things you can do with them, that was the point I was making, even a pure Brute list.

graph.php?q=r:235:8:2:m000;r:335:6:3:m00 

If you have a unit of 10 and 5 die your damage table still looks like this with a WC and +1 to hit vs a 4+ save. That's very respectable for a unit which has taken 50% casualties!

Edited by Malakree
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14 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I think the term I would use for the Waaagh! is "mediocre" so sacrificing it for a good reason isn't terrible. In this case, with that list, you would be using run a lot to increase mobility. Also don't forget the free d6 move per phase, that actually really adds up if used properly. The cheesiest example of this is taking a damned for the RR1's and d6 move in the hero phase then moving next to deadly, pulling the 1/6, then moving another d6". That's a potentially free 12" on your movement, sure it's much more likely to be an extra 3/4" but that takes you from movement 4" to movement 7" which is quite respectable.

We had Commanding on one side of the table and Damned on the other. I decided to go for the Damned and placed Big G ontop, it was a great first round of combat for him. :P

I don't think Waaagh is mediocre at all. If you look at 10 Ardboyz having 2 attacks at 1 damage. If you add +1 damage you double their output, if you then Waagh for +1 attack you increase it by another 50%. Adding +1 damage and +1 attack on Ardboyz is effectively the same as giving them 4 extra attacks from the old Waaagh stacking. If you somehow manage to get the +2 Waaagh you effectively give them what 6 extra attacks from the old Waaagh stacking used to be. I think this is VERY strong considering you only spent 1 CP (Sure, it is 1 time per game only) and 1 "free" ability from a Warchanter, as opposed to blowing your entire load on one turn prior to the new book.

I'm much more a fan of the current setup where you can have one power turn but still have great output the following rounds. Waaagh isn't the nuclear button it used to be where it was deciding if you won or lost. It is a button to press when you want a little more oompf in one round to delete something important.

Edited by Kasper
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