AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Scurvydog]

4 minutes ago, Kizkull said:

I have two questions:

1. If you go with Big Waaagh army and you got a ironjawz hero (warchanter, for example), can you use the comand ability "mighty destroyers"?

2. In that case that I would like to play with a Big waaagh army, can I pick a bonnesplitterz hero as my general (giving him the trait and artefact from bonesplitterz) and the rest of my army can be ironjawz units only?

Thanks in advance!

1. No, having access to that for all heroes is related to the Ironjawz allegiance. See above regarding the discussion about the Ironfist battalion being able to use it in the Big Whaagh (I would say it can, as it seems all the battalions are made for both IJ and Big Waaagh allegiances).

2. Yes. The only one to really consider in my opinion is the Prophet, but all in all you would probably be better served with all ironjawz then, as there is sadly just about no synergy between Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz, they do not even fill out any niche roles other than maybe arrow boyz for the ironjawz, but without the other bonesplitterz buffs, they are a bit lacking I think.

[Arkahn]

43 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

1. No, having access to that for all heroes is related to the Ironjawz allegiance. See above regarding the discussion about the Ironfist battalion being able to use it in the Big Whaagh (I would say it can, as it seems all the battalions are made for both IJ and Big Waaagh allegiances).

I agree, the only way to use Mighty Destroyer in a Big Waaagh  is from an Ironfist battalion.

[Malakree]

So played a game at club tonight. Thoughts an opinions.

As I suspected Gordrakk and the cabbage are amazing. The Mighty Destroyers threat range makes them so nasty. The new strength from victory scales up VERY fast.

Ironsunz is bonkers. The artefact is great, the -1 to hit is great, we are even more CP starved than before and the ability to charge in your opponents charge phase is nuts.

The warchanter buff is predictably nuts.

Goregruntas now hit like absolute trains with the WC buff. With big Gs command ability 2 of them minced a stegadon with no issues.

Ardboys are good. Not sold on the Ardfist, you're so CP starved anyway.

Aetherquartz Broach.

Big G is way better than a normal cabbage.

There is some nuts stuff you can do with the d6" move. Reroll 1s to hit from dammed and a free d6" move. Don't mind if I do.

Take fixin beat, all our important stuff is 5+ wounds and the 3d6 charge is impossible to use.

[Arkahn]

Can you share your list @Malakree ? 

[Malakree]

35 minutes ago, Arkahn said:

Can you share your list @Malakree ? 

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (560)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline

Units
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
20 x Orruk Ardboys (280)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Ardfist (160)

Total: 2200 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 165
 

Being lazy. Half all the ardboy units, took aethquartz on warchanter and was ironsunz 

[Arkahn]

52 minutes ago, Malakree said:

the 3d6 charge is impossible to use.

Why it's impossible ? 24" + 3d6" with Gordrakk seems scary... 

Still think 2 MawKrusha is a good way ? 

[Jabbuk]

Boyz, am I considered a traitor if I want to expand and try some Bonesplitterz? I like the idea now, of staying within the Orruks Warclans and trying different builds for different armies, for example using a Drakkfoot if a lot of Ethereal stuff, trying out some Kunnin Rukk. It's cool that we can all try that now within our own book and not switch armies. It's like we have a lot of versatility now. I still love my IJ though. IJ to the death but having fun options is fun too.

[broche]

55 minutes ago, Arkahn said:

Why it's impossible ? 24" + 3d6" with Gordrakk seems scary... 

I think the timing in the charge phase make it difficult to use. If you move Mawkrusha 24 you'll never be wholly within 15 of a warchanter.

[Arkahn]

11 minutes ago, broche said:

I think the timing in the charge phase make it difficult to use. If you move Mawkrusha 24 you'll never be wholly within 15 of a warchanter.

True ! I didnt see you can use it during your charge phase... 

[Malakree]

14 minutes ago, Arkahn said:

Why it's impossible ? 24" + 3d6" with Gordrakk seems scary... 

Still think 2 MawKrusha is a good way ? 

Move 24" then try to have him wholly within 12" of the warchanter at the start of your charge phase.

Compare that to bringing a stacked cabbage back from the brink or pushing them up a profile. Hell even healing off chip damage on your aetherquartz warchanter.

I love my double cabbage. Gordrakk is fantastic and the other gets to be the general and carry an artefact. They are both highly mobile massive threats which can also use command abilities. One my the most common things for me to do is push a cabbage and a unit of ggs up together. Especially true with how hard they ramp now. Top of turn 4 I had 5 stacks on my MK putting him at 11 attacks with his choppa. Not to mention that he was now 20 wounds instead of 15. Even as the MK fists were profiling his choppa was ramping up fast enough to essentially offset the loss. Oh it also makes list building super easy as they take up exactly 1k points together, so I'm building a 1k list and sticking 2 cabbages to it!

Next list will probably drop the Ardfist for an Ironfist. Probably something like.

Gordrakk + Cabbage, 1k.

1k left.

Warchanter (110)

Ironfist (160)

3ggs (160)

5 brutes (140)

430 left.

This is the really tricky bit as I need another 3 units, for the full 5 Ironfist, and ideally want a second unit of ggs, a second warchanter and to balance the rest out for either 50 spare or dead on the money. If I grab the second gg its 270 remaining that gives me 10 ardboys and 90 points float. I can spend 50 to upgrade 5 to brutes but that leaves a horrendous 40 points spare. If I instead drop the ggs and go for 2 more blocks of brutes I get 5 ardboys, a cp and 10 spare.

So my options atm seem to be.

10 brutes, 5 ardboys and a cp.

3ggs 10 ardboys 5 ardboys. 

5 brutes 10 ardboys and a warchanter.

3 ggs, 

I'm leaning towards the second for power, bodies and mobility. Gives final list as.

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2

or

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2

[broche]

6 hours ago, broche said:

Could a rule guru confirm me that cover bonus is still Wholly within? a friend is arguing that is now just within cause it say Wholly on or within. In my interpretation this mean wholly within, if not i had totally miss that ( and nobody never pointed that to me)

@Malakree, what's your take on that?

[Arkahn]

@Malakree your first list give you a 4 drops which is far better than the 5 one from the second list, especially in the actual meta imo.

But a double warchanters to buff both Maw krusha seems insane too ! I definitly need to try a double Maw krusha list ! 

What about a gore fist to help your GGs to follow both Maw krusha ? Minimum points for it is 610, so you can add :

1 warchanter + 2x5 brutes (5 drops) 

1 warchanter + 5 Ardboyz +10 Ardboyz (6 drops) 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Arkahn

[PlasticCraic]

On 10/6/2019 at 9:25 AM, Malakree said:

Finally logic chain 3

1. Effect A says you can't fight till the end of the combat phase.
2. Effect B says you fight immediately.
3. I'm pretty sure that somewhere it says if two abilities directly contradict the one which was applied last takes priority. Can't find it atm though.

Hence S&B is applied after Locus of Depravity so overrules it.

Yeah I've searched in vain for that 3rd point, again I'm sure I've seen it somewhere but I can't pin it down.

Would this offer a relevant precedent?

Q: Call to War allows a Gristlegore Hero to pile in and then attack as a reaction to being slain. Can I use Feeding Frenzy to fight again after using Call to War?

A: Yes. Call to War happens before the slain model is removed play, temporarily halting the normal game sequence at that point. The Feeding Frenzy command ability can be used after Call to War to allow the model to fight for a second time. The normal game sequence is then returned to, and the slain model is removed from play

Edited October 6, 2019 by PlasticCraic

[Kasper]

6 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Yeah I've searched in vain for that 3rd point, again I'm sure I've seen it somewhere but I can't pin it down.

Would this offer a relevant precedent?

Q: Call to War allows a Gristlegore Hero to pile in and then attack as a reaction to being slain. Can I use Feeding Frenzy to fight again after using Call to War?

A: Yes. Call to War happens before the slain model is removed play, temporarily halting the normal game sequence at that point. The Feeding Frenzy command ability can be used after Call to War to allow the model to fight for a second time. The normal game sequence is then returned to, and the slain model is removed from play

Is it this one from Beasts of Chaos you are refering to?

 

[Planar]

On 10/5/2019 at 1:33 PM, Malakree said:

There is a really Gruesome Weirdfist list if you tank up the weirdnob and have him as your general. Bursting with Power to make him 2 casts then  take both Hand of Gork and Wrath of Gork. Throw in Shamanic Skullcape for +1 to cast, combine with a Balewind Vortex for the +6" casting range and second spell. Your Weirdnob can now Teleport then cast Wrath of Gork and THREE Green Puke spells at 6+2d6". That's a ton of potential mortal wounds and makes him functionally a 5 cast wizard with +1. SUCK IT ARKHAN!

I just logged in in to post the same thing! Add a Wurgogg and you can get up to 7 spells per hero phase

[Planar]

So with Orruk Warclans warm in my hands I arranged a game with my best gaming pal Spyros against his also freshly introduced Skaven soup army. Spyros is an old Skaven player that took a yearly detour from the rats to play Soul wars Evocator lists. I was also detouring with Nighthaunt, playing occasional Waagh bombs (badly) after GH2019. So, we both knew the feel of our armies but at the same time everything was new to a great extend.

 

My list was:

The Great Waagh

Gordrakk

6 Gore Gruntas

10 brutes

10 ardboys

Warchanter

Weirdnob shaman

Megaboss on foot

Ironfist

Bloodtoofs

 

Spyros list was (approximately)

Vermin;ord Deciever

Warlock Bombardier

Screaming Bell

40 plague monks

6 Stromfiends

Loads of Clan rats in 20-rat units

Lists were more casual than competitive but can usually deliver some punch at local tournaments. Nevertheless, our inexperience with the new armies lead us to tons of tactical mistakes as you will see.

We played Duality of Death without any Realm Rules. We use a lot of scenery as per GW new terrain rules, so the table was really packed. I outdropped Spyros and gave him first turn.

I deployed all my forces opposite to one objective tightly packed. I did this in order to be able to buff all units in turn from the warchanter. The plan was to advance with all the slow foot units on one objective, secure it with superior punch (since Spyros has deployed his units spread out across both deployment areas) and launce a single super buffed Gordrakk to harass the far objective

I gave him first turn

1 Turn Skaven

Spyros started his hero phase casting a ton of weird rat spells which our simple Orruk minds cannot comprehend. I was impressed how much was going on his hero phase and my lack of magic defence (a single weirdnob is pathetic in that respect) became very apparent very fast.  He buffed the fiends,  cast Warp Lightning Vortex on a choke point in front of my deployment zone (that was a great move from his part, it really destroyed my ability to advance) and then he then skitter leaped his Screaming bell general in the far objective. Finally he teleported through a gnaw hole 40 monks around the same objective screening the general.

Spyros deployed two of his stormfiends with windlaunches which was a surprise for me since everyone is loosing their minds about how broken warpfire throwers are. I was thus not prepared for the 24”range and deployed my warchanter within threat range of the fiends. Spyros rushed his fiends towards the second objective and got within range of my whole army. Thankfully he was not aware of how crucial the warchanter is in the updated armies and chose to hit my 10 brutes unit instead. My brutes have wrecked his stormfiends many times in the past so he had a good reason to fear them. He ultra-dialled the fiends with several nasty rat tricks (spells and tokens) and they ended up dealing 17 wounds on the brutes in a single shooting phase. That was fucken impressive!

He scored 1 VP

1 Turn Orruks

Ok it was time to act. I noticed a mistake in Spyros deployment. Although he had screened his Screaming bell general with monks there was a point where the monks touched the screaming bell base. Charging Gordrakk there mean I was within reach of the screaming bell with my 1” range weapons. Warchanter buffed Gordrakk with a 3d6 charge and the 6 Gruntas with the +1 damage. Weirdnob cast mystic shield on Gordrakk (that was a mistake I should have unbinded the Warp Lightning Vortex) and then I used the free teleport to send him across the table. I used mighty destroyers on the Gruntas and beelined them to charge the stormfiends.

Gordrakk rolled a 5 on 3D6 failing his charge so I had to spend a command point to reroll. He barely managed the second time dealing 3 MW on the Screaming Bell. Gruntas hit the fiends dealing another 3 MW wounds on the charge and taking control of the objective. I chose to activate Gordrakk channelling all attacks on the bell. He easily smashed it to bits just with his two weapons (never rolled for the cabbage attacks)

BIG RULES MESHUP here from my part since I activated then Smashin and Bashin.  Smashin and Bashin is a BATTLE TRAIT and not a Command Ability, therefore it cannot be used in the Big Waagh (Q%@#%@#%). That was a big mesh up (sorry mate). Gruntas taking wrongly priority wrecked the stormfiends with 17 wounds killing 3 and bringing the 4^th to 2 wounds. I couldn’t believe how good our revamped heavy cavalry is in the charge if buffed by the warchanter.

The rest of the army rushed slogged forward through the vortexes getting slowly fried.

I scored 1 VP

We rolled and I go the double turn I was hoping for.

2 Turn Orruks

Knowing what 40 buffed monks can do, I decided to retreat Gordrakk to further chase his verminlord in the next round. I flew him over a building hoping the plague monks will remain guarding the objective. I buffed the brutes with +1 damage then attempted to teleport them with Hand of Gork but was easily unbinded. Everyone moved forward slowly sucking more MW by the vortex.

The gruntas hit the fiends again but now without the charge and +1 damage only killed one more The 2 melee fiends with Shock Gauntlents stayed alive. Not much else happened.

I scored 2 VP

2 Turn Skaven

Rat things are damn fast! The plague monks run and successfully charged the hiding Gordrakk (didn’t know they can do that), the Verminlord run and reached the objective abandoned by the plague monks taking hold of it again and two units of clanrats teleported through gnawholes and skitterleap and surrounded my gruntas. Suddenly rats were everywhere! Spyros knew he had to kill the Gruntas to stop me from scoring more points. So, he chose to activate the Fiends first hoping the 40 plague monks will be able take a punch from Gordrakk. The two remaining fiends killed 2 gruntas but the clanrats failed their charges and a kept the objective for another turn. By now the Big Waagh was in full swing and Gordrakk hit back with +1hit+1wound and +1 attack from Strength from Victory. He killed 33 (!!!) plague monks. The rest fled in battleshock.

The gruntas finished of the fiends.

Everyone else crawled forward getting fried by the vortex. I rolled a 6 on a battleshock loosing a full unit of hardboyz.

Spyros scored 1 VP.

We rolled for initiative and I won.

At this point there was not much Spyros could do. On one side of the board Gordrakk was again free to charge the Verminlord and on the other side my army had finally arrived in combat and was ready to charge. I would definitely  keep the objective for another round scoring three VP. Spyros had no way to catch me on points.

We called it a day.

Observations

My first experience with the new IJ is that we became better and more consistent at what we were already good (wrecking face) but we still suffer at what we always suffered (board control, consistent threat range, overcoming screens, body count). This match was mostly lost by my opponent rather than won by me. Spyros did some serious tactical errors (failing to screen correctly, failing to single out warchanter to shoot) not to mention the big blunder from my side activating Smashin and Bashing when I should not have done so.

Two warchanters is a must. One is two vulnerable and force you to deploy too tight.  Footboss no matter how much I like him cannot keep up (this is even more apparent than before) and now he is also very expensive. He will stay only in fluffy lists.

A buffed Gordrakk and 6 gruntas are all the punch you need really. Fast and hitting like a green train.

I am thinking to keep the hammer and try a magic heavy list next. The idea is to rain spells on opponent until the full waagh builts, then wreck havoc. I have already in mind a list with a Wurgogg prophet addition that can deal 6 spells per round. More on that in the following post 😊

Edited October 7, 2019 by Planar

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Kasper said:

Is it this one from Beasts of Chaos you are refering to?

 

Yep that establishes it perfectly. 

[Salthrass]

Hello all, 

Just making sure I’m doing things right. If I have a Megaboss on Maw-Krusha and give him: 

Live to Fight
Metalrippas Klaw
Mean ‘Un (mount trait)

Then buff with:

Warchanter Buff
+1 to hit 
And Reroll 1s. 

Will I have 8 attacks with choppa & hacka and 8 with fist and tails.
At 2s rerolling 1s, 3s to wound (re rolling if charging) at rend 3, 3 damage on the Choppa and rend 2, 4 damage on the fists?

Sorry bout the wall of text.....

[Fuggorf]

2 hours ago, Planar said:

My list was:

The Great Waagh

Gordrakk

6 Gore Gruntas

10 brutes

10 ardboys

Warchanter

Weirdnob shaman

Megaboss on foot

Ironfist

Bloodtoofs

I was under the impression that only Ironjawz armies can choose clan keywords. Can Big Waaagh armies also choose them?

Edited October 7, 2019 by Fuggorf

[Arkahn]

13 minutes ago, Fuggorf said:

I was under the impression that only Ironjawz armies can choose clan keywords. Can Big Waaagh armies also choose them?

I think you cant, only IJ and BS can, not great waaagh

[Jabbuk]

33 minutes ago, Arkahn said:

I think you cant, only IJ and BS can, not great waaagh

Yep, I confirm that only Ironjawz can have warclans. The Big Waaagh! is not Ironjawz, sadly.

[PlasticCraic]

18 hours ago, Kasper said:

Is it this one from Beasts of Chaos you are refering to?

 

That's the one!  Thank you.

[Kasper]

19 hours ago, Salthrass said:

Hello all, 

Just making sure I’m doing things right. If I have a Megaboss on Maw-Krusha and give him: 

Live to Fight
Metalrippas Klaw
Mean ‘Un (mount trait)

Then buff with:

Warchanter Buff
+1 to hit 
And Reroll 1s. 

Will I have 8 attacks with choppa & hacka and 8 with fist and tails.
At 2s rerolling 1s, 3s to wound (re rolling if charging) at rend 3, 3 damage on the Choppa and rend 2, 4 damage on the fists?

Sorry bout the wall of text.....

That is correct. Now, let the carnage begin!

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

Toying with a non-krusha list but includes two battalions at 2k to pump out command points from the start

Allegiance: Ironjawz - Mortal Realm: Ghur - Warclan: Ironjawz

LEADERS

Orruk Megaboss (150) - General - Command Trait : Brutish Cunning - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm

Orruk Warchanter (110) - Artefact : Rageblade - Warbeat : Get 'Em Beat

Orruk Warchanter (110) - Warbeat : Fixin' Beat

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110) - Artefact : Great Green Visions

UNITS

10 x Orruk Brutes (280) - Jagged Gore-hackas

5 x Orruk Brutes (140) - Pair of Brute Choppas

5 x Orruk Brutes (140) - Pair of Brute Choppas

3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140) - Pig-iron Choppas

3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140) - Pig-iron Choppas

10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

BATTALIONS

Brute Fist (120)

Ironfist (160)

TOTAL: 1960/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 155

Six drop army. Dangerous on the charge and some free Mighty Destroyers to use. If need be, I could always switch to Ironsunz or Bloodtoofs depending on match up

[Salthrass]

38 minutes ago, Kasper said:

That is correct. Now, let the carnage begin!

I was hoping I calculated it right! He took down a 2+ Vorgaroth at the weekend and I was hoping I’d not missed something. He’s going to be fun to use!