AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Kasper.]

30 minutes ago, Superninja said:

@Kasper.

Boss has Boss Klaw/Brute Smasha, 1 has Gore-choppa, and the other 3  models have either pair of Brute Choppas or a Jagged Gore-hacka. 

• Typically if its a unit of 5, you would go with the pair of Brute Choppas for the 3 other models. 
• Typically, when using larger units, like 10 Brutes, it would be 1 Boss, 2 Gore-Choppa, and 7 models using Jagged-Gore-Hacka.

Thanks for the clarification. Appreciate it!

[Malakree]

34 minutes ago, Superninja said:

Typically, when using larger units, like 10 Brutes, it would be 1 Boss, 2 Gore-Choppa, and 7 models using Jagged-Gore-Hacka.

There was some math done on this a while ago, can't remember when, which shows that at 10 it's personal choice.

The 2" range is easier to use but the 4 attacks depreciates less harshly.

15+ you take 2" range.

[Kasper]

I'm getting more and more curious/hyped as days go by and the Warclan tome isn't announced. Surely if it was just a mashup of Ironjawz + Bonesplitterz, it wouldn't take them this long to release. After seeing the Gotrek rules, I'm curious if they would do a similar thing with Gordrakk. Allow him to be an ally in any Destruction army since all of them are worshippers of Gorkamorka, but with new rules. He's a pretty badass in lore, and according to the newest stuff, he's seeking a fight directly with Sigmar because he finds nobody else worthy. Right now his stats and rules are pretty lackluster, so a beefed up Gordrakk would be amazing. I'm obviously not expecting a profile like Gotrek, but an extra feel-no-pain save would be sick and overall damage output buffed. He is an avatar of Gork after all.

I'm really hyped for the new tome, but also afraid all my dreams might be crushed.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Kasper

[Oreaper84]

So since Beastgrave preorders on the 21st, will they not do the Warclans tome on the same weekend?....Does this mean we wont preorder till the end of the month!!!!!! Do they realize what temperament of players they are dealing with? Do they think we have that kind of patience??!?!? Just tell us when!!! 

[Glamdring]

Hey gang, I was looking for some input on the list I'm gonna run (just a 1 day thing) this weekend. I know we're all waiting for the new Battle Tome to drop but we gotta do something to pass the time, right?! Anywho, what are y'alls thoughts on this list? I'm still trying to decide if I want to swap out Bash 'Em Ladz for Power of Da WAAAGH!. My idea is to move the army up, put said shaman on the vortex, then WAAAGH! bomb everything, but vortex and re-rolls is just as tempting. LoL I'm still getting the feel for Ironjawz so any input would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance 😃

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Hulking Muscle-bound Brute
- Artefact: Gleaming Blade
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Spell: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: The Golden Toof
- Spell: Bash 'Em Ladz

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
- 10x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (340)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 2x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Bloodtoofs (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121
 

[Malakree]

On 9/14/2019 at 1:52 AM, Oreaper84 said:

So since Beastgrave preorders on the 21st, will they not do the Warclans tome on the same weekend?....Does this mean we wont preorder till the end of the month!!!!!! Do they realize what temperament of players they are dealing with? Do they think we have that kind of patience??!?!? Just tell us when!!! 

Have they actually said beastgrove will be next weekend? I read the article and it's just announcing the war warband. Not to mention that announcements happen Sunday not sat.

Honestly though at this point I'll be glad if it's out before xmas

 

[PlayerJ]

7 hours ago, Malakree said:

Have they actually said beastgrove will be next weekend? I read the article and it's just announcing the war warband. Not to mention that announcements happen Sunday not sat.

Honestly though at this point I'll be glad if it's out before xmas

 

 

[walheim]

Hi guys! Im looking to make good ironjaw list with mostly ardboyz! Is this possible? Could you help me out? Thankyou!

[Planar]

1 hour ago, walheim said:

Hi guys! Im looking to make good ironjaw list with mostly ardboyz! Is this possible? Could you help me out? Thankyou!

Hi,

At the moment it is possible but we are expecting a new battletome very (?) soon. See posts above.

It might be a good idea to wait a bit to see what the new book will bring. 

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

So, I think it's time I comment on the tourney I went to this weekend.

 

1) The first game (battle for the pass) was against LoN. Won iniatiative, and decided to go first. Went and held objectives. We grinded each other until the first half of round 4. by the end of his 4th turn we were 14-12 in my favour and before I get to do my turn the judges tell me to 'simulate' it. Long story short? my opponent wins... because of reasons. Without me getting to play *my* 4th turn he magically gets another 5pts, winning by judge fiat.

2) The second game (starstrike) was against slaanesh. I lost initiative and had to go first, so I decided to back down 2-3 inches. He  moved the same. We roll off I win and make him do the saddest double turn ever, as he cannot reach anything. Positioning carefull and unleashing a +10 attack waaagh! I kill the 60 daemonettes and enrapturess, leaving only a contorted epitome and dual keepers. He wins initiative, and murderfucks my megaboss. From there it is a battle of attrition, as I manage to outscore him by the end of turn 5 while barely avoiding a tabling.

3) Game 3 (can't remember, hold 2 objectives by the end of round 3) was... *something*. My opponent, once I ended checking up, turned out to have cheated left and right. he used missile weapons both in shooting and meelee, wanted to shoot out of meelee and misused a lot of his abilities to his advantage, let alone fudged his dice and wounds and counted failures as succeses or made only a single roll for his special saves, regardless of my dmg stat. He was also an incredibly poor sport, as he had to question every single move I made (he had to interrogate every single ironjawz player when I did my waagh... twice), despite having both *my* army book and the ghb at hand (and I mean literally, he didn't let it go). he was overall a miserable experience and the fact he ended up winning (which he wouldn't have been able to had he played the hag correctly) was just the salt upon the wound.

 

I guess it was a fine event, but marred with souring elements.

[Scurvydog]

It sounds like my typical Ironjawz experience in some ways, especially the double check and triple check of Whaagh. It is so poorly implemented and I try to explain it as well as possible pre game with my opponent, as it will always create discussion if you just suddenly pop 5 CPs and get maybe +7 attacks to everyone. 

Usually I snowball a poor or unlucky opponent so bad it is not fun this way or if you face a crafty opponent they will simply deny a good whaagh with screening and other shenanigans. 

The last player sounds extremely frustrating and should have gotten a warning by the sound of it, but at that point the mood has soured anyway, but might help the next person facing that guy.

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

Well, he was the last opponent. And I raised the note to the judges for upcoming events.

[broche]

6 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Usually I snowball a poor or unlucky opponent so bad it is not fun this way or if you face a crafty opponent they will simply deny a good whaagh with screening and other shenanigans. 

Yeah that is sad. I think tough Ironjawz could be played as a more control list and not rely at all on the waaagh bomb.  Lots or ardboys, using geminid for double turn protection and rely more on Mighty destroyer than waaaagh to gain advantage. 

[Malakree]

15 hours ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

We grinded each other until the first half of round 4. by the end of his 4th turn we were 14-12 in my favour and before I get to do my turn the judges tell me to 'simulate' it. Long story short? my opponent wins... because of reasons. Without me getting to play *my* 4th turn he magically gets another 5pts, winning by judge fiat.

That is incredibly poor judging, a game should never end halfway through a round. It means the judges didn't say "play till the end of the round" soon enough.

15 hours ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

3) Game 3 (can't remember, hold 2 objectives by the end of round 3) was... *something*. My opponent, once I ended checking up, turned out to have cheated left and right. he used missile weapons both in shooting and meelee, wanted to shoot out of meelee and misused a lot of his abilities to his advantage, let alone fudged his dice and wounds and counted failures as succeses or made only a single roll for his special saves, regardless of my dmg stat. He was also an incredibly poor sport, as he had to question every single move I made (he had to interrogate every single ironjawz player when I did my waagh... twice), despite having both *my* army book and the ghb at hand (and I mean literally, he didn't let it go). he was overall a miserable experience and the fact he ended up winning (which he wouldn't have been able to had he played the hag correctly) was just the salt upon the wound.

Call the judges over. If you complain and they give him a warning, then you complain again they should stand and watch the game. If they spot him cheating while watching then it's a DQ.

A lot of this sounds like both tournament inexperience for you and the judges/TOs. Really ****** when it happens tho 😥

7 hours ago, broche said:

Yeah that is sad. I think tough Ironjawz could be played as a more control list and not rely at all on the waaagh bomb.  Lots or ardboys, using geminid for double turn protection and rely more on Mighty destroyer than waaaagh to gain advantage. 

The issue is that current IJ warscrolls are not worth their points. Compare a KoS at 360 to a cabbage at 440, it's similar across the entire army.

End result is that the bomb is our equaliser. We're looking to do enough damage with it that we can win the pillow fight in later turns.

[broche]

17 minutes ago, Malakree said:

The issue is that current IJ warscrolls are not worth their points. Compare a KoS at 360 to a cabbage at 440, it's similar across the entire army.

That is a really lousy comparaison (and cabbage is now 420), and has significant better stats than KoS, nothing scandalous here.  If you just cut the summoning Slanneesh would likely loose most matchup agains IJ even withouth bombing. 

The scandalous part is the your 360 KoS generate half it's value in summoning point just by dying. And that is cleary unfair.

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, broche said:

That is a really lousy comparaison (and cabbage is now 420), and has significant better stats than KoS, nothing scandalous here.  If you just cut the summoning Slanneesh would likely loose most matchup agains IJ even withouth bombing. 

The scandalous part is the your 360 KoS generate half it's value in summoning point just by dying. And that is cleary unfair.

Slaanesh will obliterate IJ without the bomb and no summoning.

You aren't going to be able to chain off a small unit wipe easily which means you're suffering the same issues everyone else is. Shorter threat range, fights last and inability to soak the horrific amount of damage. Plus they will be putting ~3 keepers down and you have no way to deal ANY of with them.

For reference this is the expected damage output of an unbuffed cabbage vs a 4+ save.

[Kasper]

6 hours ago, broche said:

That is a really lousy comparaison (and cabbage is now 420), and has significant better stats than KoS, nothing scandalous here.  If you just cut the summoning Slanneesh would likely loose most matchup agains IJ even withouth bombing. 

The scandalous part is the your 360 KoS generate half it's value in summoning point just by dying. And that is cleary unfair.

You are crazy. Slaanesh got CPs coming out their butt, so the KoS will fight twice every single time. KoS can almost kill any monster in the game.

[Scurvydog]

Well the real advantage for Slaneesh is not just the warscrolls, but the KoS can both on a 2+ force the cabbage to fight last and also fight again instantly for 1 CP instead of only in the hero phase as IJ now can. In most cases this means that the KoS will hit you first on a 2+ and most likely hit you twice if the first time did not do the job. That is not counting they are also wizards who can cast multiple spells.

The only way I managed to bring one down was to carefully plan a charge, and also have the muscle bound brute trait and a lot of luck. Basically on my turn 2 in one of my games, I managed to use mighty destroyers in the hero phase to get my gruntas to take out a wounded chariot which charged them the previous turn and blocked access to his line, as things were positioned so my cabbage could not fit anywhere useful. Luckily I manged to bring down the chariot, and make room for the cabbage.

In the charge phase I got in and got lucky with the bulk, rolling 6 4+ and also landed the trait and rolling 3 dmg on the d3, so I did 9 mortal wounds on the charge. Even with that, the keeper made me strike last taking me to 7 wounds, and then I finished it of, but the cabbage would have been toast if I did not get that lucky charge and bracketed the keeper as much. Yet killing it and loosing 7 wounds gave him enough summoning points to summon a new one...

We are hard pressed against the super fighty armies, with powerful strike first /strike again mechanics and also often baked in wizards in their hero behemoths. The power creep has been real and with our current model line all being fighters, even a new book will either have to bake in just as much power creep or we will still be sort of meh. 

I don't know how they will fix Ironjawz, the model line is so limited, so without first strike abilities, we will still lose in a fight against the power hitters currently, namely DoK and Slaneesh. How do you make a pure melee army viable in the current meta? There are no models for fast units, flying units or basically anything else than just slow brawlers, so the rules will have to be really creative if not to just copy paste the current best combat rules and command abilities.

[tom_gore]

All charging IJ fight first?

Yeaaaah that might be a tad OP.

[Lanoss]

Bosses (Brute bosses &, megabosses) issue challenges to units to “duff them up” on a 4+ Unit fights first

lmao

thatd be nice 

[broche]

The couple game I had agains Slanessh (was with Weirdfist) I felt I had a pretty good matchup until I realized I play 2000 againts 2700 pts. Keeper doesnt fly and doesnt it that hard. Smash and bash can break the locust chain.  You can still use the waaagh, but between 2-4 attack should be enough agains them  as they're made of paper. I also found Slaneesh to be very vulnerable to the geminid. A good strategy is to make the Damoenette  the priority target, and don't worry too much of the KoS, just debuff and stall them (since he get summoning point when the die anyway). I'm pretty sure a Ardfist + Geminid would be a good approach.

Honestly I find  FEC to be much more scary. The Therrorgheist  do much more mortal, and attack twice in a row + they fly

[Kasper]

9 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

I don't know how they will fix Ironjawz, the model line is so limited, so without first strike abilities, we will still lose in a fight against the power hitters currently, namely DoK and Slaneesh. How do you make a pure melee army viable in the current meta? There are no models for fast units, flying units or basically anything else than just slow brawlers, so the rules will have to be really creative if not to just copy paste the current best combat rules and command abilities.

Well at least S&B is sort of a counter to Slaanesh's ability if you can plan your charges and wipe out a weak unit first. Their army is generally made of paper and rely heavily on the LoD, so if you can wipe out a small unit of Daemonettes and activate your LoD' unit, then you should be ok. Their fight twice is still nasty, but it isn't as bad as units that have the rule of being able to fight twice immediately without any real counter to it.

[Jabbuk]

I dunno if you guys are following the Beastgrave stuff but it looks like there will be a brute warband in it. At least the Ironjawz will be represented. If you scroll through the cards, there's a card that has a brute with a pony tail on top (like GGs). It sure is a model we haven't seen before. My guess would be a Brute boss guy with a few bonesplitterz to go with him as Brutes are really strong and there couldn't be a group of them in that game I think.

What do you guys think?

Edited September 19, 2019 by Jabbuk

[tom_gore]

6 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

I dunno if you guys are following the Beastgrave stuff but it looks like there will be a brute warband in it. At least the Ironjawz will be represented. If you scroll through the cards, there's a card that has a brute with a pony tail on top (like GGs). It sure is a model we haven't seen before. My guess would be a Brute boss guy with a few bonesplitterz to go with him as Brutes are really strong and there couldn't be a group of them in that game I think.

What do you guys think?

If there are brutes in Beastgrave I would think there'll be just brutes in the warband. Bonesplitters would surely deserve their own warband and it would also give GW a chance to give us a new Wardokk or Prophet model to replace the resin ones.

[Scurvydog]

I just think it is the artists rendition of genreric Orruks and there wont be another warband. The ardboyz we got are not even real Ironjawz, as we all know they are just the fan boyz hanging around the brutes who are the real ironjawz. Disappointing yes, but that would be in line with how Orruks have been handled all of the AoS lifespan.