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AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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16 hours ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said:

So, which of the two do you think are better? Ironsunz or Bloodtoofs?

I really would say it depends on your playstyle. Both obviously have the one-drop-potential. Personaly I think Ironsunz might be the more defensive set-up, whereas Bloodtoofs can be played very aggressive.

With Ironsunz you make your Mawkrusha more sturdier and a bigger threat (+d3 Wounds and +d3 on Attack-value, can be very nice) and the -1 to hit in the shooting phase first round, lets you more easily take the board and position yourself, not beeing to afraid of your guys getting shot off the board first round, before they could even stuck in.

Bloodtoofs gives you +2 Bravery (if Realmgate is on the field) +1" for Run and Charges, which stacks nicely with our alliegance ability. In addition and most importantly, the Battalion lets your units count double for the Waaagh! roll, so you can be more spread out on the field and dont need to clump up all your guys in one solar system around your general. So having three units in range of the Waaagh! counts as six.

All in all I would say Bloodtoofs gives you more bang for your buck. It opens up more flexible playstyles and positiong all around the board, You can field bigger unit sizes instead of mutliple single units, e.g. Hand of Gorking 30 Ardboys in your opponents face, with +4" Charge (IJ, Ardboy Drummer, BT) A Footboss can easily be used to give Waaagh to your backline. And your brutes don't run that often = more CP

Ironsunz can also be fun, especially when your local meta is very shooting heavy. But just fieldtest them, they require both the same and whatever fits more your playstyle.

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@Malakree,

I think you may be on to something with Big G. I ran him in a small tournament this past weekend. I went 3-0 against Tzeentch, Legion of Grief, and then Gloomspite. The list was: Big G, Maw w/ hulking muscle-bound brute, and then 5 units of 3 GG with bloodtoofs, ironfist, and 1 CP.

My take on Big G, yes he is expensive for 560 points. Regular Maw is 420 so for an extra 140 points we get +2 attacks, 18 inches 3 dice charge, one more wound and a better attack profile. An attack is 50 points apiece if you use the same conversion for the WAAAGH ability. So with the leftover 40 points having a three dice charge is worth it.

If you can line it upright, you can have your maw crushers smashing into backline heroes with ease. I just wanted to say I think you are the right track and I am excited to try the list again. With all pigs, it does seem to bog down into hordes, so I need to watch out for that.

Edited by dasnation
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So there’s a short piece of fiction posted today on the warhammer community site about Gordrakk tearing open a storm vault. Fun story, but out of it came a bit of gordraaks grand plan. I won’t spoil it for those who haven’t read it, but of interest here is that Godraak is building a battering ram out of the skull of a god-beast.

Wishful thinking, but could we be getting a cool terrain piece? 

 

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22 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

So there’s a short piece of fiction posted today on the warhammer community site about Gordrakk tearing open a storm vault. Fun story, but out of it came a bit of gordraaks grand plan. I won’t spoil it for those who haven’t read it, but of interest here is that Godraak is building a battering ram out of the skull of a god-beast.

Wishful thinking, but could we be getting a cool terrain piece? 

 

I will have to check that out, sounds awesome!

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17 hours ago, JonnyTheKing said:

Need a good 1250 list for next week, throw your ideas my way 

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline

Units
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
20 x Orruk Ardboys (280)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Endless Spells / Terrain
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1250 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96
 

This List is absolutely great to play, since there is so much synergy. Every part of it feels somewhat important and has a purpose. Having a lot of fun with it.

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I had a question regarding the Meeting Engagement Rule set. Is there anything stopping us from using the Hand of Gork spell & a group of 10 ardboyz to clog one of an opponent's deployment area. Therefor denying them part of there army because they cant setup all of their units with the remaining room?

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4 minutes ago, Vergozen said:

I had a question regarding the Meeting Engagement Rule set. Is there anything stopping us from using the Hand of Gork spell & a group of 10 ardboyz to clog one of an opponent's deployment area. Therefor denying them part of there army because they cant setup all of their units with the remaining room?

I do not believe so. I wouldn't do this in a casual game but in a tournament go ahead! Might not get a good sportsman score though :P.

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52 minutes ago, Vergozen said:

I had a question regarding the Meeting Engagement Rule set. Is there anything stopping us from using the Hand of Gork spell & a group of 10 ardboyz to clog one of an opponent's deployment area. Therefor denying them part of there army because they cant setup all of their units with the remaining room?

Ghb pg 75

DEADLY TERRITORY
When reserve units are set up on
the battlefield during a meeting
engagement, they must treat enemy
arrival edges in the same way as an
enemy model. Usually this will mean
that they cannot be set up within 9"
of an enemy arrival edge.

So basically the deployment zone of an enemy is a no go zone. 

Edited by Chase
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4 hours ago, Chase said:

Ghb pg 75

DEADLY TERRITORY
When reserve units are set up on
the battlefield during a meeting
engagement, they must treat enemy
arrival edges in the same way as an
enemy model. Usually this will mean
that they cannot be set up within 9"
of an enemy arrival edge.

So basically the deployment zone of an enemy is a no go zone. 

I saw that. However reserve units were described as "A reserve unit is a unit that is set up in a location other than on the battlefield" in the Designers’ Commentary for the Core Rulebook . The Ardboyz in question would be deployed on the battlefield normally and moved via the Hand of Gork. So that shouldn't stop the deployment clogging. 

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12 hours ago, Oreaper84 said:

Well Ladz....with the Iron Hands on Pre-Order this weekend....prob a no go for the Warclans Pre-Order this weekend :(

Is this a GW trend? Because I have personally I don't see why they couldn't have 40k and AoS go up at the same time. I have zero interest in 40k as an example.

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3 hours ago, Kasper said:

Is this a GW trend? Because I have personally I don't see why they couldn't have 40k and AoS go up at the same time. I have zero interest in 40k as an example.

From a business perspective there is quite a bit of overlap in the hobbies and you don't want to be competing with yourself AND exhaust your releases at twice the speed.

GW generally splits it into 3, AoS, 40k and specialist games.

Specialist games can end up as padding for the other 2.

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Hey guys,

First of all, I cannot wait for the new battletome to come out and every week that passes by without an announcement makes me real sad.

So we discuss a lot of list building and a few battle reports here, but I haven't seen some in-depth strategies and discussions about the playstyle of Ironjawz. I'm fairly new and have played about 8 games so far and I do have some fundamental questions on how to play the IJ. Here are a few questions that I hope will spark some exchange between the most seasoned here.

- what are the hammers and what are the anvils of IJ? (It's my understanding that ardboys and GGs are tarpits and brutes and MK are the heavy hitters)

- do you always try to charge first? Even if it's not turn 1. Let's say you setup for turn 2, will you try as much as possible to charge first? Or will you wait and keep a good formation?

- what is the general thinking behind the way you deploy? Do you shield your brutes or do you front them? Also since we're so slow, it's hard to get them in quickly, which is why I was thinking of trailing them until I can charge them later while they are full health.

- what is the defining moment that makes you engage the opponent? It's also my understand that IJ is kind of a deathstar type of army, so when do you actually decide to charge in instead of mainting formation? I have this dilemma where I was keeping my GGs to guard my rear but forgot that the Ishlengard eels have a bonus to attack when charging so next turn I'll get hit fully, unfortunately. How do you play your GGs? Do you run them as fast as possible to tarpit a key unit?  Do you consider them good hitters?

Anyways, I hope this is not too confusing, I'd really appreciate some help on this to better understand the overall strategy in playing IJ.

Thanks for reading :)

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@Jabbuk

Here are my thoughts/experiences on Ironjawz:

Hammers:  

  • Spoiler

     

    • Unit of Brutes (especially against high wound targets)
    • The Brute Boss by himself (especially against high wound targets)
    • Mawkrusha
    • Gordrakk
    • Megaboss on foot (Typically has a hard time making it into battle)
    • Any Ironjawz unit can become a hammer when you add enough Waagh!/Frenzy of Violence/Bash em Ladz

     

     

Tarpits:

  • Spoiler

     

    • Unit 10/20/ 30 Ardboys (shields help with this)
    • Gore-gruntas

     

     

Anvil:

  • Spoiler

     

    • Unit of 20/30 Arboys (with shields)
    • Possibly a defensively equipped Mawkrusha

     

     

You want to charge 1st because Waaagh! and Frenzy of Violence are in effect during our combat phase. You want to attack the enemy 1st, while you're buffed, before they can weaken your ability crush them.

I certainly try to charge first with:

Spoiler

 

  • a unit if I believe I can win the combat or destroy enough of the enemy and avoid enough losses.
  • a unit or two of Gore-Gruntas to pin an enemy unit or two back.

  • Gore-Gruntas to try and attack with their bonus to long charges.

  • a Mawkrusha/Gordrakk to inflict damage on the charge. 

  • a unit or two of Ardboys to pin an enemy back and/or take an objective.

  • a unit to avoid an enemy unit from utilizing their charge bonuses.

  • a unit to ensure an enemy target is in combat with the unit I want.  (protect Heroes/priority targets/softer targets)

  • a unit to establish the area where combat will take place.

  • a unit that is buffed up.

  • any unit I just teleported that is intended to engage and/or tarpit an enemy unit.

  • my whole army if it I am confident that enough units will get in to have a Waaagh! that can't fail or not likely to fail.

  • a  brutefist battalion.

  • any unit after I have had too many beers and forgotten/lost interest in the plan.

 

 

I do not try to charge first if:

Spoiler

 

  • the charge(s) will cause my army to split up/while not gaining anything/enough from it. 
  • I would rather hold my ground/objective
  • the charges would cause me to fail the Waagh! roll because I won't have enough or as many bodies within range.

 

 

 

Deployment:  (This is something I would like to learn more about, but here are my thoughts)

Spoiler

 

  • Deathstar type deployment comes from the ranges from many of our abilities/bonuses
    • "Waaagh!" (Within 12 inches from Megaboss on foot at the start of the combat phase.  *used in hero phase*)
    • "Mighty Waaagh!" (Within 15 inches from Megaboss on Mawkrusha at the start of the combat phase  *used in hero phase*)
    • "Mighty Destroyers" (Wholly within 12 inches from Hero/18 inches from General in your hero phase)
    • "Frenzy of Violence"  (Within 10 inches of the Warchanter in your hero phase)
    • "Power of the Waaagh!"  (Up to 20 Orruk models within 10" of the Weirdnob Shaman)
    • "Go on Ladz, Get Stuck in!" (Passive/Always on-Brutes within 5" of Megaboss on foot during combat phase when brute makes attacks)
    • Weirdfist battalion (A unit from battalion within 10" of the Weirdnob from battallion when Arcane Bolt, Green Puke,  or Foot of Gork are cast)
  • This Deathstar usually consists of at least 6 units since that is typically the number your need for a Waaagh! not failing. 
  • This Deathstar usually involves screening your heroes, brutes.
  • Gruntas are usually placed in a way to be able to engage some target to hold it up (this often brings them closer to middle/to heroes)
    • OR
  • Or Gruntas are placed on the sides and/or behind to screen while still being able to threaten an area/join a fight  where needed.
  • Ardboys are often used to screen heroes/priority targets like brutes. 
  • Brutes/Gruntas/Mawkrusha equipped with Gore-Hackas and Heroes equipped with artefacts can have a 2 inch range.  This allows them to attack over the top of ardboys.
  • Gordrakks ability allows him much more freedom when deciding where to place him ,than a typical Megaboss on Mawkrusha, since it affects every unit on the board in the battalion targeted.
  • Bloodtoof battalion allows for a more spread out deployment due to each unit in the battalion counting as 2 for the purposes of Waaagh! performed by the Mawkrusha in the battalion.  This allows you to have multiple areas that could avoid failing the Waaagh!  This gives you more flexibility and allows you to more seriously threaten multiple areas. 

 

  •  

**Sidenote** I've been using movement trays lately and I have to say that is quickens up my setup and also movement phase.  Especially since we often move multiple times a turn

 

 

 

 

Edited by Superninja
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26 minutes ago, Superninja said:

@Jabbuk

Here are my thoughts/experiences on Ironjawz:

Hammers:  

  •   Hide contents

     

    • Unit of Brutes (especially against high wound targets)
    • The Brute Boss by himself (especially against high wound targets)
    • Mawkrusha
    • Gordrakk
    • Megaboss on foot (Typically has a hard time making it into battle)
    • Any Ironjawz unit can become a hammer when you add enough Waagh!/Frenzy of Violence/Bash em Ladz

     

     

Tarpits:

  •   Hide contents

     

    • Unit 10/20/ 30 Ardboys (shields help with this)
    • Gore-gruntas

     

     

Anvil:

  •   Hide contents

     

    • Unit of 20/30 Arboys (with shields)
    • Possibly a defensively equipped Mawkrusha

     

     

You want to charge 1st because Waaagh! and Frenzy of Violence are in effect during our combat phase. You want to attack the enemy 1st, while you're buffed, before they can weaken your ability crush them.

I certainly try to charge first with:

  Hide contents

 

  • a unit if I believe I can win the combat or destroy enough of the enemy and avoid enough losses.
  • a unit or two of Gore-Gruntas to pin an enemy unit or two back.

  • Gore-Gruntas to try and attack with their bonus to long charges.

  • a Mawkrusha/Gordrakk to inflict damage on the charge. 

  • a unit or two of Ardboys to pin an enemy back and/or take an objective.

  • a unit to avoid an enemy unit from utilizing their charge bonuses.

  • a unit to ensure an enemy target is in combat with the unit I want.  (protect Heroes/priority targets/softer targets)

  • a unit to establish the area where combat will take place.

  • a unit that is buffed up.

  • any unit I just teleported that is intended to engage and/or tarpit an enemy unit.

  • my whole army if it I am confident that enough units will get in to have a Waaagh! that can't fail or not likely to fail.

  • a  brutefist battalion.

  • any unit after I have had too many beers and forgotten/lost interest in the plan

 

 

I do not try to charge first if:

  Hide contents

 

  • the charge(s) will cause my army to split up/while not gaining anything/enough from it. 
  • I would rather hold my ground/objective
  • the charges would cause me to fail the Waagh! roll because I won't have enough or as many bodies within range.

 

 

 

Deployment:  (This is something I would like to learn more about, but here are my thoughts)

  Hide contents

 

  • Deathstar type deployment comes from the ranges from many of our abilities/bonuses
    • "Waaagh!" (Within 12 inches from Megaboss on foot at the start of the combat phase.  *used in hero phase*)
    • "Mighty Waaagh!" (Within 15 inches from Megaboss on Mawkrusha at the start of the combat phase  *used in hero phase*)
    • "Mighty Destroyers" (Wholly within 12 inches from Hero/18 inches from General in your hero phase)
    • "Frenzy of Violence"  (Within 10 inches of the Warchanter in your hero phase)
    • "Power of the Waaagh!"  (Up to 20 Orruk models within 10" of the Weirdnob Shaman)
    • "Go on Ladz, Get Stuck in!" (Passive/Always on-Brutes within 5" of Megaboss on foot during combat phase when brute makes attacks)
    • Weirdfist battalion (A unit from battalion within 10" of the Weirdnob from battallion when Arcane Bolt, Green Puke,  or Foot of Gork are cast)
  • This Deathstar usually consists of at least 6 units since that is typically the number your need for a Waaagh! not failing. 
  • This Deathstar usually involves screening your heroes, brutes.
  • Gruntas are usually placed in a way to be able to engage some target to hold it up (this often brings them closer to middle/to heroes)
    • OR
  • Or Gruntas are placed on the sides and/or behind to screen while still being able to threaten an area/join a fight  where needed.
  • Ardboys are often used to screen heroes/priority targets like brutes. 
  • Brutes/Gruntas/Mawkrusha equipped with Gore-Hackas and Heroes equipped with artefacts can have a 2 inch range.  This allows them to attack over the top of ardboys.
  • Gordrakks ability allows him much more freedom when deciding where to place him ,than a typical Megaboss on Mawkrusha, since it affects every unit on the board in the battalion targeted.
  • Bloodtoof battalion allows for a more spread out deployment due to each unit in the battalion counting as 2 for the purposes of Waaagh! performed by the Mawkrusha in the battalion.  This allows you to have multiple areas that could avoid failing the Waaagh!  This gives you more flexibility and allows you to more seriously threaten multiple areas. 

 

  •  

**Sidenot** I've been using movement trays lately and I have to say that is quickens up my setup and also movement phase.  Especially since we often move multiple times a aturn

 

 

 

 

Dude, this is... amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to write this. It's very thorough and answers all of my questions. Thanks also for the suggestions, I will definitely try that stuff out next time I have a game. I ended up losing my game (that extended over 2 days because we play on lunch time). IDK are really strong, he kept making killer rolls to avoid all of my attacks. He just ended up grinding everything with time and my brutes fled because I rolled a 6 on battleshock. Gotta say I was kind of salty because of the dice. Wish it wouldn't affect me this much. Next time I'll try to care less hehe. 

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@Jabbuk

Yes, I have gotten frustrated before when playing.  I think the time we invest in putting together models, painting, trying to find games, and how long games take can cause one to take things more seriously than needed.  Also, it can sometimes be difficult to not freak out over what different armies can do.  I've tried to take an "every army has its crazy thing(s) it can do" type of attitude, but it isn't always easy to achieve or maintain. 

Once I smash and bash an army off the board after a big Waaagh! its hard not to feel bad for my opponent as well.

And it was my pleasure to write out.  I hope @Malakree and/or others chime in.

Edited by Superninja
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Sorry I’m new to warhammer, and I’m about to assemble my brutes for my fledgling IJ army. I see most commonly brutes listed as a unit of brutes (pair of brute choppas) does this mean all 5 brutes are being assembled with pair of brute choppas, or boss+gore hacka+3 models with pair of brute choppas? I assume the latter? Thanks!

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@Kasper.

Boss has Boss Klaw/Brute Smasha, 1 has Gore-choppa, and the other 3  models have either pair of Brute Choppas or a Jagged Gore-hacka. 

  • Typically if its a unit of 5, you would go with the pair of Brute Choppas for the 3 other models. 
  • Typically, when using larger units, like 10 Brutes, it would be 1 Boss, 2 Gore-Choppa, and 7 models using Jagged-Gore-Hacka.
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