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Aginor

Let's talk about Endless Spells

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Given the size of the Gravetide it's actually really easy to block its movement with your own army. 

It only does damage to units that it passes over, and not units that it touches or ends within 1". If you position carefully you can deny it space to finish an 8" move so it can't hurt your own units.

You can summon it to give your units a cover bonus, deny enemy charge area, and if the enemy gets close enough you can push it forward to deal damage and reduce bravery. This is incredible for blocking chokepoints, giving wizards and key units cover, and effective immunity to melee attacks until it is dispelled or moved.

The Gravetide is subtle but powerful.

gravetide.png

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24 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Given the size of the Gravetide it's actually really easy to block its movement with your own army. 

It only does damage to units that it passes over, and not units that it touches or ends within 1". If you position carefully you can deny it space to finish an 8" move so it can't hurt your own units.

You can summon it to give your units a cover bonus, deny enemy charge area, and if the enemy gets close enough you can push it forward to deal damage and reduce bravery. This is incredible for blocking chokepoints, giving wizards and key units cover, and effective immunity to melee attacks until it is dispelled or moved. 

The Gravetide is subtle but powerful.

gravetide.png

We played with it on the weekend and actually it's almost impossible for the tide to be wholly within 4" of a wizard. We could only get it fitting one way.

It is huge and will be great for blocking a pathway on a crucial turn. We stupidly managed to block our own path! O.o

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That reminds me to ask:

Is there a clear definition what "passing over" a unit actually means?

Because looking at the above picture it is clear that it means a completely different thing to me than to you.

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2 hours ago, PJetski said:

Given the size of the Gravetide it's actually really easy to block its movement with your own army. 

It only does damage to units that it passes over, and not units that it touches or ends within 1". If you position carefully you can deny it space to finish an 8" move so it can't hurt your own units.

You can summon it to give your units a cover bonus, deny enemy charge area, and if the enemy gets close enough you can push it forward to deal damage and reduce bravery. This is incredible for blocking chokepoints, giving wizards and key units cover, and effective immunity to melee attacks until it is dispelled or moved.

The Gravetide is subtle but powerful.

gravetide.png

 

2 minutes ago, Aginor said:

That reminds me to ask:

Is there a clear definition what "passing over" a unit actually means?

Because looking at the above picture it is clear that it means a completely different thing to me than to you.

The model doesn't actualy need to move to pass over something. All you gotta do it have it do a move that lets it move over a few models and then back to where it was.  As far as i see it all this formation thing does it let the grave tide tough like 2 or 3 units an then plop back down about the same place it was. 

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4 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

 

The model doesn't actualy need to move to pass over something. All you gotta do it have it do a move that lets it move over a few models and then back to where it was.  As far as i see it all this formation thing does it let the grave tide tough like 2 or 3 units an then plop back down about the same place it was. 

That's what I was referring to. I understand it the same way.

It would move 2" to the lower left, 4" to the right, and then 2" to the upper left, ending where it was. In the process it would have moved over the two units left and right and the wizard.

Edited by Aginor
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30 minutes ago, Aginor said:

That's what I was referring to. I understand it the same way.

It would move 2" to the lower left, 4" to the right, and then 2" to the upper left, ending where it was. In the process it would have moved over the two units left and right and the wizard.

yeah i just think some folks are under the misconception that it hass to completely move over a model from one direction to that directions opposite.  Which ahsn't really been the case for any of the units with similar abilities, and would also make all the endless spell pretty darn useless lol. 

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I can't imagine that moving means you can move to every single point within your movement range before finishing your move... that would make every predatory spell that deals damage to units it has passed over absurdly strong. A Purple Sun would roll a dice for every unit within 9" of where it started no matter where it ended its move. That's just... stupid.

The only reasonable interpretation is that "passing over" means there is a model directly between where you started your move and where you ended your move.

Edited by PJetski
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1 minute ago, amysrevenge said:

Have you encountered Hexwraiths in AoS?

I have. Flamespyre phoenixes also have a similar ability.

It's ridiculous to think that a Hexwraith can stand still but still deal damage to unit within 12" because it "passed over them and then went back to its starting position". That can't possibly be the intent.

I have never played it this way and have never heard of it being played this way.

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It's not within 12 it's within 6.  If you have enough movement to get there and back again, then go there and back again.

 

ETA: Slightly less than 6 - need to go on top of, not merely just up to.

Edited by amysrevenge
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How is it ridiculous to think something can move forward 6 inches then back 6 inches while still going over a unit?

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2 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I have. Flamespyre phoenixes also have a similar ability.

It's ridiculous to think that a Hexwraith can stand still but still deal damage to unit within 12" because it "passed over them and then went back to its starting position". That can't possibly be the intent.

I have never played it this way and have never heard of it being played this way.

yeah honestly don't see the problem. It mad like alittle bombing pass. Flew over and back. The 9" thing is a radius. If you gave that 9" a radius it would be more like a 2" radius if you made it do a small circle.   Even just using the 9" to tough stuff is pretty tough to do as you gotta move far enough to touch but also ahve enough movement to get back to where you were.  

with the purple sun beable to just go touch models i still think the purple sun kinda sucks <.< so... i don't really see absurdly powerful.  Anywho, i won't argue it with you further its a topic that the community had as a question long long ago and most folks agree'd then, and i'm sure most agree now how it works. If you are concerned you could e-mail GW for clarification. 
 

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3 hours ago, Chrisdanish said:

...it's almost impossible for the tide to be wholly within 4" of a wizard. We could only get it fitting one way.

This is it's biggest weakness. I think the grave-tide is underrated (based on a sampling of random internet comments). However, the point that the OP makes about stopping its movement by giving it no place to go is interesting. I do think that someone could move it several inches forward and then back to mortal wound a unit and essentially end up where it started, but even that limits it's utility a bunch. 

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Just one more example for moving:

I drop my Terradons 9" away from the enemy. As they are allowed to move their 14" fly move after that, I move them 10" forward and 4" back.

That's a legal move and it allows me to drop their bombs onto the target.

I imagine them doing an over-the-shoulder delivery like modern bomber planes do it sometimes.

If that wasn't possible than a lot of such abilities of units wouldn't make any sense at all, because in most cases their move would never allow them to pass over a unit.

The rules at no point say that a move must be a straight line, only that the total distance may not exceed the move characteristic. That includes ending the move where you started.

So my interpretation of moving over a model or a unit is that at some point of the move a  part of the moving model's base must have been over the other model's base. I usually want to at least spend 1 or 2" over the enemy like in the above example, I don't want to argue about a few millimeters, that would be silly.

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I am amazed by the geminis of ulghysh. 

Just enormous to deal 2d3 damage on multiple units and giving them -1 att and -1 to hit really neuter anything. I can't find a way to counter that.

Edited by kozokus

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Yeah the Geminids stand out at only 40 points. Less so for the 2d3 (even though that's really rather solid) but there debuffs are just massive. 

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Don't get all the love for the pendulum. It travels in a straight line - surely that makes it really easy to ignore as it's super predictable.

I'm looking at the spells that have a long range set up and a long movement, get them into the enemy lines asap, and with little chance of them turning around and causing havoc in your lines!

 

Probably a question that should go to the AMA guy - Can you move an endless spell again if it hasn't moved it's full movement.

E.G - opponent is going second and only my endless spell is in play. They move the pendulum endless spell a fraction of a milimetre, having very little impact. Does this count as the end of the spell movement phase - or can I now move it to its maximum move?

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Everblaze Comet doesn't require a Stormcast Allegeance, I can easily foresee an Incantor wizard as Ally in every Order list : auto unbind and access to one of the most powerful spell for 240 pts total.

I can't imagine that coupled with Kroak...

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24 minutes ago, Caffran101 said:

Don't get all the love for the pendulum. It travels in a straight line - surely that makes it really easy to ignore as it's super predictable.

I suppose it works well against horde units/armies that can't move all of their models out of the pendulum's path in time. Or if you know that your opponent will be forced to move into its path to reach an objective. Or if there's a bottleneck between terrain pieces on the battlefield that your opponent wants to get through - send the pendulum directly into it and even if your opponent moves their units out of the way you may still be able to disrupt their maneuvering plans for a turn.

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2 hours ago, Peegee said:

Everblaze Comet doesn't require a Stormcast Allegeance, I can easily foresee an Incantor wizard as Ally in every Order list : auto unbind and access to one of the most powerful spell for 240 pts total.

I can't imagine that coupled with Kroak...

If you took the Stormcast wizard as an ally, would the Everblaze Comet also fall within the ally allowance as it has the Stormcast allegiance?

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32 minutes ago, Circus of Paint said:

If you took the Stormcast wizard as an ally, would the Everblaze Comet also fall within the ally allowance as it has the Stormcast allegiance?

Good question. Actually the spell doesn't have the Stormcast keyword so I guess not.

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2 hours ago, Peegee said:

Good question. Actually the spell doesn't have the Stormcast keyword so I guess not.

I assumed it was as it's included in the Stormcast Matched Play list.

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I think it is kind of funny that the big Malign Sorcery book doesn't even have the warscrolls for the spells in it. I get that you get cards in the set but still seems funny to have all this background about them and not even put their rules in there. Still a sweet book though. 

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1 hour ago, Jgroover said:

I think it is kind of funny that the big Malign Sorcery book doesn't even have the warscrolls for the spells in it. I get that you get cards in the set but still seems funny to have all this background about them and not even put their rules in there. Still a sweet book though. 

Yeah I found that very odd. 

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