Points Changes

[boombyeyeah]

1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:

Yeah, I gotta agree here. Flamespyres were not seeing play much at 240 points, so it's a stretch to say that the new one would be worth it at 360. Frosties only going up to 280 should keep them viable though, albeit maybe not quite as good.

Anyone know if the Luminark or Hurricanum changed?

Luminark and Hurricanum stay the same

[swarmofseals]

Any changes to Vulkite Berzerkers?

[stratigo]

11 hours ago, syph0n said:

Agree with this. No one wants to lose constantly, but I'm not going to change the army I choose to collect and play with because it's a weaker faction. 

I'll never collect Tzeentch or Seraphon or Nurgle because I don't like them. I like the aelves, Idoneth, Daughters. It's nice the latter are competitive, but even if they weren't that wouldn't matter. Every person I know collects what they like to collect and paint. 

Undoubtedly the competitive element exists, and is strong, but if you feel remotely that way, you should probably focus attention on the strongest factions rather than fret over balance. 

(caveat: I play a lot of Street Fighter. I'm used to no balance, or the merest semblance of balance.) 

Or, you can hope the faction you play isn't screwed.

 

Seriously, not everyone can afford to drop hundreds to thousands of dollars every time GW changes something just to play an army that isn't flat bad. There's a difference between chasing the top tier armies, and not wanting your army to just fold in every fight. I'd like the latter without having to buy witch elves (probably my runner up army), I'm not that rich.

 

11 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

Any changes to Vulkite Berzerkers?

they lost massive regiment points bonus

[HorseOnABeachBall]

Any info about Pestilens ? I heard furnace and plagueclaw went -20, but what about battalions ?

[Deathmaster Snikch]

13 hours ago, Infeston said:

Jeah. ? I really had to laugh the moment I saw the image attached to the thread. Funny thing that this image got selected as a representation of the thread, even though it appears later in the thread.

@heywoah_twitch They really said that on stream that they only did slight changes, because they don't want BCR to be good again? Or is this just rephrase and interpretation of yours? If they really said that, then this is a really rude move. 

@Deathmaster Snikch I strongly disagree with your statements considering BCR. And I also want other factions to be pushed. Destruction is at the moment often only reduced to Ironjawz and I as a former Ogor player really want them to push or create new Ogors. BCR was also only that because of the Kunning Rukk and Stonehorn combination.

 

The old stone horn really needed the nerf he had but I also don’t want to see a return of triple thundertusk spamming snowballs. It would be cool to see more gutbusters and some of the mournfang/smaller units about but if they bring down thundertusks too much that’ll be bad. They were toxic in the last edition 

[heywoah_twitch]

14 hours ago, Infeston said:

Jeah. ? I really had to laugh the moment I saw the image attached to the thread. Funny thing that this image got selected as a representation of the thread, even though it appears later in the thread.

@heywoah_twitch They really said that on stream that they only did slight changes, because they don't want BCR to be good again? Or is this just rephrase and interpretation of yours? If they really said that, then this is a really rude move. 

I must apologize that I was adding humorous interpretation and it was not a quote, more reflecting on what seems like most people's sentiments. Edit: @Deathmaster Snikch comment for instance. Although having went back to re-watch it - the actual quotes are pure comedy gold:

"Beastclaw raiders is actually just sitting right on the cusp of being awesome. What I mean is: it's awesome. In the current meta especially - if you're playing matched play, beastclaw raiders is a sorta hidden gem." 

The last year we've been regularly absent from tournaments, and when there is representation, they have done worse on average than nearly any other faction, even those without battletomes. It's aggravating to hear something so untrue about the current GHB17 meta to be honest.

He goes on to say "There was a build that did really well but then that's kinda gone away."

It's true. It was a mixed list that used bcr monsters, so not exactly BCR. It went away when d6 hero move, artefacts working on mount attacks, and stone skeleton were all nerfed, which took away our reach, consistent damage, and our ability to survive past early turn 3. It left us, essentially, an army without the bodies to win objectives, and both without good offense nor defense. The meta shifted as well, and people started realizing that thundertusks weren't actually very good against balanced armies and were easy to cripple on turn 1.

"You can get a lot of -1 to hit in a beastclaw raider army. [he talks about how good frost-wreathed ice is here]. What I think, is what we'll see, actually, is a resurgence of beastclaw raiders."

Is he referring to a thundertusk-led yeti-spam list like the one that came in 101st out of 104 players at the Cancon 2018? Or the yeti list in 145th place at Adepticon? Those are the only two notable tries at yeti lists that I know of and their results aren't encouraging. 

Everyone hated playing against beastclaw when it was good (but not the best). This is no reason to leave them in the dumpster. Change the abilities people hate (frost-wreathed ice), and give us viable stuff to play with in exchange. Apologies for the mini-rant.

[Deathmaster Snikch]

3 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

Any info about Pestilens ? I heard furnace and plagueclaw went -20, but what about battalions ?

Apparently plague priests have gone up to 100 though I can’t confirm with a source. The foulrain has reportedly come down but I’m not sure about any others 

for the rest of Skaven I know the deceiver has gone down and so has the warbringer 

 

Theres been some change to Stormvermin and I was hoping for a points decrease as they’re waaaay too expensive even with their horde discount but apparently they’ve gone from max unit size 40 to 30 which is bad because they need to outnumber to hit hard 

We’ll see. The faction focus couldn’t really tell us much so excited to see what’s in the book 

[Mirbeau]

8 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

We will see....Death has actually some new options with the new NH units and the upcoming NH battletome. Plus the new (not yet revealed) last NH char. BTW, death has more cheap magical options that the seraphon. I'm not really counting on summoning which should be renamed for death "reviving" because of no new units.

 

Legions of Nagash are still great, maybe stronger, but as a Legion of Blood player the internal balance of the book/Death is not always great and makes you wince when picking characterful units. Neferata is my general but just shouldn't be 400 points with only 11 wounds (especially when Arkhan is 320 and the better competitive pick). 140 points for a Vampire lord is too much too. The Bloodseeker Palaquin at 320 also stands out, it could lose 60 points and still be an iffy pick while Dire Wolves and others are a bit undercosted. The only  Legion of Blood Battalion has gone up to 110 points from 70, and you need Nef (400), a Palaquin (320) and 2 x Vamps (min spend 280) - you just can't fit that into a 2000 point list and have solid or thematic  battleline units (believe me I've tried!)

[heywoah_twitch]

8 minutes ago, Mirbeau said:

Legions of Nagash are still great, maybe stronger, but as a Legion of Blood player the internal balance of the book/Death is not always great and makes you wince when picking characterful units. Neferata is my general but just shouldn't be 400 points with only 11 wounds (especially when Arkhan is 320 and the better competitive pick). 140 points for a Vampire lord is too much too. The Bloodseeker Palaquin at 320 also stands out, it could lose 60 points and still be an iffy pick while Dire Wolves and others are a bit undercosted. The only  Legion of Blood Battalion has gone up to 110 points from 70, and you need Nef (400), a Palaquin (320) and 2 x Vamps (min spend 280) - you just can't fit that into a 2000 point list and have solid or thematic  battleline units (believe me I've tried!)

As a non-death player I agree with most of this. I was expecting neferata to be 340 and the palanquin to be heavily discounted as well. At the very least blood knight battleline for LoB.

My only disagreement is the vampire lord on foot feels right at 140 now that you can actually use his command ability.

[Mirbeau]

4 minutes ago, heywoah_twitch said:

As a non-death player I agree with most of this. I was expecting neferata to be 340 and the palanquin to be heavily discounted as well. At the very least blood knight battleline for LoB.

My only disagreement is the vampire lord on foot feels right at 140 now that you can actually use his command ability.

Agreed on the command ability on the Vamp, forgot he had one as the Palanquin doesn't, that makes it easier to swallow  outside of the battalion requirement context. Think I'll have to take the 50 point hit for a command point or two and go for a Triumph to balance the 'lost' artefact instead of a battalion, which is pretty fair really.

[svnvaldez]

56 minutes ago, heywoah_twitch said:

Is he referring to a thundertusk-led yeti-spam list like the one that came in 101st out of 104 players at the Cancon 2018? Or the yeti list in 145th place at Adepticon? Those are the only two notable tries at yeti lists that I know of and their results aren't encouraging. 

Brah I'm telling you: 4xFL + Hunter + 3x2 cats. #filth lol going to rock the new meta

[heywoah_twitch]

11 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

Brah I'm telling you: 4xFL + Hunter + 3x2 cats. #filth lol going to rock the new meta

 

*quote censored on this family friendly forum ?

[Asamu]

3 hours ago, svnvaldez said:

Brah I'm telling you: 4xFL + Hunter + 3x2 cats. #filth lol going to rock the new meta

This would instantly die to most alpha strike armies, because there isn't enough protection for the monsters. Also, if those are thundertusks, you should be using Huskards, because the melee stats don't matter as much, and healing is good. Drop one of them for ~60 grots and a moonclan shaman or fungoid cave shaman, maybe find 50 points somewhere so you can always have a CP on turn one.

If any of those are Stonehorns (It may be better to go 1 FL on SH and 2 Huskards on TTs, if you're bringing 3 monsters), you probably still want to add in 40-80 grots, a wizard or two for dispels, and free up 50 pts for a command point to keep the grots from running, depending on how the points work out.

[Kirjava13]

Why in the name of Bonaparte's balls would Stormvermin of all things get a nerf, directly or otherwise? Were the top tables being overrun by Verminus lists? Have Skaven players across the Warhammer-playing world been Stormvermining their way to victory by spamming 40-strong elite units? 

Rhetorical questions, yes-yes.

[Dan.Ford]

Total random point increase I think was the Lord of chaos 100 to 140!! ( Now the same points as the Mighty lord of khorne )

Did anyone world wide have this model and podium with it in a main event?

[Drib]

16 minutes ago, Dan.Ford said:

Total random point increase I think was the Lord of chaos 100 to 140!! ( Now the same points as the Mighty lord of khorne )

Did anyone world wide have this model and podium with it in a main event?

Changes reflect the free Chaos Spawn you get when he dies and the possibility of him becoming a Demon Prince.

[Enoby]

21 minutes ago, Dan.Ford said:

Total random point increase I think was the Lord of chaos 100 to 140!! ( Now the same points as the Mighty lord of khorne )

Did anyone world wide have this model and podium with it in a main event?

I think this is because it turns into a daemon lord or spawn for free. 

[Deadkitten]

10 hours ago, Mirbeau said:

 

Legions of Nagash are still great, maybe stronger, but as a Legion of Blood player the internal balance of the book/Death is not always great and makes you wince when picking characterful units. Neferata is my general but just shouldn't be 400 points with only 11 wounds (especially when Arkhan is 320 and the better competitive pick). 140 points for a Vampire lord is too much too. The Bloodseeker Palaquin at 320 also stands out, it could lose 60 points and still be an iffy pick while Dire Wolves and others are a bit undercosted. The only  Legion of Blood Battalion has gone up to 110 points from 70, and you need Nef (400), a Palaquin (320) and 2 x Vamps (min spend 280) - you just can't fit that into a 2000 point list and have solid or thematic  battleline units (believe me I've tried!)

Any word on Blood Knights.  They went down 20 pts so now I'm a bit concerned there are incoming Warscroll adjustments.

[Dan.Ford]

44 minutes ago, Drib said:

Changes reflect the free Chaos Spawn you get when he dies and the possibility of him becoming a Demon Prince.

That was a great spot by the team.

[Uncas]

The one that makes little sense to me is the leviadon going from 380 to 440. I don’t think it was seeing much play at 380, and at 440, I doubt that will change. Not sure what they were thinking with that one... any ideas?

[Austin]

1 hour ago, Uncas said:

The one that makes little sense to me is the leviadon going from 380 to 440. I don’t think it was seeing much play at 380, and at 440, I doubt that will change. Not sure what they were thinking with that one... any ideas?

Maybe that Mystic Shield got nerfed, so the cover ability is better/more rare in the new edition than the old? Its all I can think of.  

[Carnelian]

2 hours ago, Uncas said:

The one that makes little sense to me is the leviadon going from 380 to 440. I don’t think it was seeing much play at 380, and at 440, I doubt that will change. Not sure what they were thinking with that one... any ideas?

I heard a rumour that they've changed the warscroll 

Otherwise I agree!

[Zhorphorus]

Does anyone have any updates on the loremaster points?

[Azamar]

25 minutes ago, Zhorphorus said:

Does anyone have any updates on the loremaster points?

I saw a really blurry image somewhere, and there was a star next to him but I couldn’t see his points. Doubt it’ll be a drop so likely 120-140 points

[Zhorphorus]

11 minutes ago, Azamar said:

I saw a really blurry image somewhere, and there was a star next to him but I couldn’t see his points. Doubt it’ll be a drop so likely 120-140 points

Hmm I'm not expecting a reduction but would really hope he stays at 120 max. Do you know what kind of increases we have seen with other wizards?