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Removal of compendiums


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7 minutes ago, Jamopower said:

Of course, but when you apply the same changes for both forces, they even out.  And you can always tweak them a bit after you have had few games. That's why I said ballpark. If you're playing with agreed point values, there shouldn't be any minmaxing around anyways (as then it just doesn't work), so most likely it doesn't matter at all.

There used to be big tournaments with "made up points" before the GHB, so getting it to work in a small gaming group shouldn't be any sort of issue.

 

A chunk of that's what I was saying- you're going to have to make up the points and everything else anyway so why wait for the rest of the Legends lists to drop? May as well just jot your own down.

 

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5 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

 

A chunk of that's what I was saying- you're going to have to make up the points and everything else anyway so why wait for the rest of the Legends lists to drop? May as well just jot your own down.

 

As I said, it's quite much different task to write down all of the revised command abilities and special rules to work with keywords such as "High elves" instead of "lion rangers" etc. than just to say before the game that today I'll have 20 spearmen, 2x10 archers, a bolt thrower, a mage, 20 white lions and a dragon lord, choose an equal force from your collection.

Of course, in a theoretical world the other player might bring 10 bolt throwers and three mages, but that's not how it goes in reality. In reality the other army could be a hydra, a lord on a cold one, a sorceress, 20 corsairs, 10 repeater crossbowmen, 5 dark riders, a chariot and 5 knights. They won't be perfect match pointswise, but pretty equal on the table none the less.

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What do people think is the likely fate of the (Ellyrian) Reavers?

The war scroll is currently available on the app and it isn't a compendium unit but they stopped selling the model a while ago. Will it be dropped in 2.0? Go to compendium? Go to Legends?

It's a confusing situation but Reavers are a tactically useful Battleline unit and I've got an idea for a neat conversion. 

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  • 1 month later...

Not to rez this thread....but i have come to a turning point recently. I have migrated away more fully from square based games and i am soon going to be focusing effort into getting the 7k+ (as denoted by azyr) for of my Highelves to the modern era.

As been said before, much of the stuff (dragon princes, white lions, swordmasters, dragons) port over directly....but i noticed that a great deal of stuff now just has the highborn keyword. These appear to be usable as generic order battle line (specifically my 80+ spearmen)  and i wonder if they are usuable in AOS 2.0

 

I ask not only as the self serving option, as i feel my clean and polished elves would look great on rounds, but also because they took the time to add a unifying keyword and even some synergy.

 

Are these slated to be removed from the app....bc if so they sure are taking their time yeah?

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30 minutes ago, Oreaper84 said:

[...] These appear to be usable as generic order battle line (specifically my 80+ spearmen)  and i wonder if they are usuable in AOS 2.0

I ask not only as the self serving option, as i feel my clean and polished elves would look great on rounds, but also because they took the time to add a unifying keyword and even some synergy.

Are these slated to be removed from the app....bc if so they sure are taking their time yeah?

They are completely usable at this time. And your analysis is on point.

They're usable in a GA Order army as Battleline.

The only folks who know what the timeframe for removal from Pitched Battle profiles will be haven’t told us.

 

 

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On 6/8/2018 at 12:07 PM, RuneBrush said:

Just to point out that 40k was simply a new edition of the game.  Age of Sigmar is an entirely different game set in a different world - the fact we've been able to use any old models (especially ones no longer manufactured) has actually been a real positive.

Warhammer Legends is being created with warscrolls for each unit in classic Warhammer armies.  It's not intended to be used in Age of Sigmar (hence being called Warhammer Legends, not AoS Legends), if it does get a points system, I can imagine it being on a different scale to AoS.  Best of all is that legends is free!

What models are being dropped that are just two and a half year old?

Does that mean that armies like ogors, BCR or orcs are not going to be updated, because they were made in WFB.

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43 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

They are completely usable at this time. And your analysis is on point.

They're usable in a GA Order army as Battleline.

The only folks who know what the timeframe for removal from Pitched Battle profiles will be haven’t told us.

 

 

Cool, well then i will continue to use them as is for now. I appreciate the feedback mate!

Maybe if they get axed in the future i could see using them and a prim and proper, don't muss my tunic wanderers army later down the road....

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1 hour ago, blueshirtman said:

Does that mean that armies like ogors, BCR or orcs are not going to be updated, because they were made in WFB.

In short, no.

In general, if it was “updated” in the Grand Alliance Books, or had a battletome release, then it’s not an issue. 

Most of the units that were in the original Warscroll Compendiums have been re-Warscrolled. (is that even a word?) And have an updated Warscroll to use. (It’s identified in the back of the Warscroll Compendium.)

BCR, as an example, have their own AoS battletome that was released.

The only units that are still in the Warscroll Compendiums and did not make a jump to the Grand Alliance “big Books” or get their own battletomes are for the most part no longer being made.

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1 hour ago, Dead Scribe said:

Thats kind of like supporting a car but without the wheels or a steering wheel or other mandatory part.

Like many vintage cars you’re not likely to get much support from the Manufacturer for a product that has been out of production for years.

That 1984 DeLorean you own that is your pride and joy might be able to get minor spare parts... but an Original OEM epoxy Coated frame replacement can’t be had for love nor money from DMC.

GW provides rules, they just don’t provide Matched Play points. So, Open Play and Narrative Play are still available options. They just wont be tournament legal anymore once they no longer have Matched Play Points. So to play, it requires more communication with your opponent than: “how many points do you want to play?”

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1 hour ago, Dead Scribe said:

I seriously cannot comprehend how Games Workshop supports legacy armies but doesn't include points.  Thats kind of like supporting a car but without the wheels or a steering wheel or other mandatory part.

“Mandatory” and “mandatory for Matched Play” are very different concepts. GW wants to support certain armies only for Open and Narrative Play, so we have the Legends program. 

Your play group may play Matched Play exclusively, but as you’ve seen in other threads, that is not the case everywhere. 

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GW is basically playing a game of steady tidying up (that their first move was to shatter many armies in fantasy into minifactions didn't help this in the least!) to the point where their official rules for matched play (which lets face it is the general standard most people will play and expect to play) only supports directly what GW currently manufactures. 

They are doing away with legacy support for things that they no longer make; which isn't bad as not everyone buys into 3rd party lines nor converts. It makes it fair on those getting into the game new as they can buy all the same things everyone else uses

 

Plus lets not forget nothing stops GW re-releasing stuff in the future with a new kit. So what gets retired today might reappear in another form tomorrow.

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35 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

“Mandatory” and “mandatory for Matched Play” are very different concepts. GW wants to support certain armies only for Open and Narrative Play, so we have the Legends program. 

Your play group may play Matched Play exclusively, but as you’ve seen in other threads, that is not the case everywhere. 

yeah, but matched played is kind of the most common thing being played. Someone may as well say the models are still ok, because they can be used in hero quest or something like that. Plus just becasue they don't make something like dark elf models, doesn't mean other firms wouldn't make those. It is as if GW was making their armies wierd on purpose, just to make them different, and not so people can use the stuff that already exist.

Quote

 

In short, no.

In general, if it was “updated” in the Grand Alliance Books, or had a battletome release, then it’s not an issue. 

 

But if they remove the printed version of BCR battletomes and move them to just digitial, what is going to stop them from making BCR legacy in lets say 2 years. It doesn't seem as if they are giving factions with already existing mode lines much support. They make only new stuff, and ignore all the old beloved factions like elfs or dwarfs.

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16 minutes ago, blueshirtman said:

But if they remove the printed version of BCR battletomes and move them to just digitial, what is going to stop them from making BCR legacy in lets say 2 years. It doesn't seem as if they are giving factions with already existing mode lines much support. They make only new stuff, and ignore all the old beloved factions like elfs or dwarfs.

They just released the Daughters of Khaine and updated the Nighthaunts. Saying GW never updates existing factions is wrong.

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3 hours ago, Dead Scribe said:

I seriously cannot comprehend how Games Workshop supports legacy armies but doesn't include points.  Thats kind of like supporting a car but without the wheels or a steering wheel or other mandatory part.

Because you don't need points to play, maybe?

I was fine with my TK in AoS when it first hit the shelves, and I am fine with them today.

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I just inherited a large High Elf army (from an ex player who gave up on them due to their limbo status in AoS). 

My plan is to purchase base adapters and magnets to convert the minis to rounds and ovals.  If GW ever drop the units from AoS completely, I will simply use them for Fantasy which I still play sometimes.

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9 hours ago, Dead Scribe said:

I seriously cannot comprehend how Games Workshop supports legacy armies but doesn't include points.  Thats kind of like supporting a car but without the wheels or a steering wheel or other mandatory part.

Let’s make that analogy work. GW says okay this vintage car costs to much for us to keep up to date. But because we love you classical car collectors who invested in this model and love it, so much. We’re doing one more update and after that it just doesn’t make fiscal sense anymore so we’ll stop supporting it. 

Which is actually something that happens a lot with car manufacturers. So all the classical army lovers with dark elves can go for that Sunday drive but GW isn’t just throwing money at it for little to no return. 

Also I know you are a competitive gamer but can you genuinely comprehend how it’s a nice thing GW’s done ? For the narrative and social gamers it’s a great boon. 

7 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

yeah, but matched played is kind of the most common thing being played. Someone may as well say the models are still ok, because they can be used in hero quest or something like that. Plus just becasue they don't make something like dark elf models, doesn't mean other firms wouldn't make those. It is as if GW was making their armies wierd on purpose, just to make them different, and not so people can use the stuff that already exists.

Can you elaborate because I genuinely don’t understand your point? Regarding the first part, I think it’s weird to compared a different way to play to a totally other game. GW is a business, and by actively offering the different ways to play they continue to entertain certain players they would otherwise lose/never attract. So to stick with the previous analogy. Not everyone wants to race, some people just want the casual enjoyment of driving on beachside road with the top of on a Sunday. If a business wants to stay healthy they need that diversity. Second part of your argument could work if it’s an affiliate business or partnership like legion of Azeroth. But even then GW is not prone to invest in making rules and keeping things up to date just so another company makes money. And right they are. 

7 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

But if they remove the printed version of BCR battletomes and move them to just digitial, what is going to stop them from making BCR legacy in lets say 2 years. It doesn't seem as if they are giving factions with already existing mode lines much support. They make only new stuff, and ignore all the old beloved factions like elfs or dwarfs.

True, and a bit of a shame but if developing new armies gives a bigger return on investment it makes perfect business sense. And without seeing all the numbers we cannot fully judge those descisions. But I think beast claw will be fine the next couple of years. Don’t know if they’ll get an update because they are apparently hard to balance. But definitely playable ?

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+++MOD HAT+++

Not quite sure why this has been resurrected rather than a new topic started.  As a preemptive reminder please do not post needlessly negative comments, especially if it regarding something that is an assumption.

To surmise:

Warhammer Legends - Rules for Old World armies & miniatures intended to be played under the Open Play and Narrative Play styles.  This currently includes Dark Elves and some monsters & characters.

Compendium - A collection of warscrolls with Pitched Battle profiles that was created at the launch of Age of Sigmar.  Some parts have been converted over to Warhammer Legends.

Age of Sigmar - Rules for Mortal Realm armies & miniatures.  Warscrolls have Pitched Battle Profiles, allowing them to be played in all three styles of Play.  This include Ogors, Beastclaw Raiders, Seraphon, Nighthaunt etc

We cannot predict the life expectancy of armies.  I've not got a crystal ball so cannot tell you if at some point in future one army will be retired or another be expanded out.  @blueshirtman I appreciate you feel that you've got a rough deal when it comes to Beastclaw Raiders, however they do have a Battletome and are still a viable army, regularly winning games at events.  It is highly unlikely that Beastclaw Raiders will be retired any time soon.  Ogors are also being used as one of the Destruction "poster boys" too so I'm sure that they'll get some love at some point, however Rome wasn't built in a day.

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On 6/8/2018 at 12:04 PM, MrZakalwe said:

Yeah those are the points I use at the moment - the Seawarden command ability and the Highborn Archers Hal of Arrows ability combine quite nicely to give me a decent firebase. 

It doesn't compete with the best in the game but it's also not completely rubbish. 

I'm thinking at this point I need to get off my ass and actually write a Highborn battletome that fits Age of Sigmar- the twice abandoned and utterly desperate Highborn really aren't high elves at this stage anyway. 

Just wait for Warhammer Legends and use the old points for all the units. (Balances very well with the Dark Elves Legends btw)

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10 hours ago, Kramer said:

Let’s make that analogy work. GW says okay this vintage car costs to much for us to keep up to date. But because we love you classical car collectors who invested in this model and love it, so much. We’re doing one more update and after that it just doesn’t make fiscal sense anymore so we’ll stop supporting it. 

Which is actually something that happens a lot with car manufacturers. So all the classical army lovers with dark elves can go for that Sunday drive but GW isn’t just throwing money at it for little to no return. 

Also I know you are a competitive gamer but can you genuinely comprehend how it’s a nice thing GW’s done ? For the narrative and social gamers it’s a great boon. 

Sorry to butt in but GW isn't being "nice", they've made a calculated decision that they're not going to support models which are no longer sufficiently profitable and they will therefore make it so people can't use these models anymore, encouraging/forcing them to buy new ones.

GW have further calculated that there is a small market of people who really like these models and will buy them even though they're not usable in matched play and that they can make some profit through a limited production run to cater to this market.

What part of this is a boon? They're cold financial decisions designed to get as much money as possible out of as many people as possible.

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GW has to think financially - if they don't their doors close. 

Old models that have old sculpts that have not been replaced can't be kept around forever,  they have to be retired to make way for new models in the production line. If GW still has the masters and the moulds then offering limited window print runs lets them serve the market that wants those models without having it harm their primary production setup; nor leave GW warehousing larger numbers of old models produced on the production run that just don't sell in large volumes (ad-hoc casting is costly too as it interrupts the normal production flow). 

It also makes sense for new payers and old ones returning. If all the armies are fully represented and there are no models without rules or rules without models it creates a fair and level playing field for each updated army. It also means that new players are not left feeling left out because they weren't fans yesterday and thus never bought old models. 

 

Many of these models might return in the future. We already have a new high-elf dragon and dark elf dragon so the old models are purely being cast up for those who want the old design not the new one. Meanwhile things lke the twin elves on a woodelf dragon could well return in the future - we already got a new Queen of the Woods in her fantastic woodland form standing atop a mighty beetle (the old one was a very static pose of her with butterfly wings in thick white metal and a staff - good model but nothing like her new one)

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8 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

+++MOD HAT+++

Not quite sure why this has been resurrected rather than a new topic started.  As a preemptive reminder please do not post needlessly negative comments, especially if it regarding something that is an assumption.

Can you be a bit clearer? What does "needlessly negative" mean? It's a fantastically vague and entirely subjective phrase and it hardly seems fair to ask people to guess whether you personally will consider their opinions to be needless or needful before they express them.

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18 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

matched played is kind of the most common thing being played. Someone may as well say the models are still ok, because they can be used in hero quest

First part, very true.

Second part, very not true.

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30 minutes ago, Orsino said:

they will therefore make it so people can't use these models anymore, encouraging/forcing them to buy new ones.

They are still able to be used, and not in some strange, hard to figure out way. They are 100% good in Narrative and Open. Plus, there are still points for them, just not updates planned to those points, which means really you can even still do Matched with them.

Also, nobody is forcing anybody to do a darn thing.

Before I get any "fanboy" or "shill" comments, I'll point out that I am often quite critical of GW (even in this very forum) and that Tomb Kings are my favorite hobby gaming thing ever for any game, but I understand and can be objective.

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