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MrZakalwe

Removal of compendiums

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Hi folks,

just a quick question - I've seen a few mentions that compendiums are going to be completely withdrawn making my Highborn stuff unusable in matched with ghb2018, is this off the back of actual information or just an assumption? If the former where was it said?

Thanks!

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13 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

Hi folks,

just a quick question - I've seen a few mentions that compendiums are going to be completely withdrawn making my Highborn stuff unusable in matched with ghb2018, is this off the back of actual information or just an assumption? If the former where was it said?

Thanks!

They are creating Legends selection of factions, so current compendiums will end up without a compendium post AoS2 (at least thats what they indicated). Where this leaves models they dont sell any more depends where they are now. If they are only compendium, like the High Elf bolt thrower, its likely this wont have points moving forward. Things like Elf Reavers or Spireguard who currently sit in Swifthawk allegiance but dont have models on the shelf, who knows.

Edited by stato

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9 minutes ago, stato said:

(at least thats what they indicated).

 

Where did they indicate this?

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5 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

 

Where did they indicate this?

It’s what they did with Warhammer Legends Dark Elves. 

 

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Well ******. I didn't realise the Dark Elf compendium had been removed from the site. Thanks guys. 

 

I've been scraping by with compendium rules for my core troops of my mixed order army but I guess they are going to vanish soon.

 

Great.

 

(buying a large amount of high elves during the closing days of 8th has turned out to be an enormous and extremely costly mistake) 

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26 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

Well ******. I didn't realise the Dark Elf compendium had been removed from the site. Thanks guys. 

 

I've been scraping by with compendium rules for my core troops of my mixed order army but I guess they are going to vanish soon.

Great.

(buying a large amount of high elves during the closing days of 8th has turned out to be an enormous and extremely costly mistake) 

I think a lot of them will still be playable in matched play, others with just a little bit of creative thinking, especially if you are mixed Order.  There are still a lot of high elf units available from GW so those will have AoS rules for a long while yet.  And all High Elf stuff will still be fully playable using the legends rules for open games.  Once the GHB is out all will become clear.

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1 minute ago, stato said:

I think a lot of them will still be playable in matched play, others with just a little bit of creative thinking, especially if you are mixed Order.  There are still a lot of high elf units available from GW so those will have AoS rules for a long while yet.  And all High Elf stuff will still be fully playable using the legends rules for open games.  Once the GHB is out all will become clear.

Probably not my spearmen, archers, bolt throwers, silverhelms and Seahelm sadly. My Phoenix Guard, Lion Rangers, Dragon etc will still be usable (in the same way as I was already having to run mixed order) but I wont have any battleline so wont be able to put together a matched play force.

I have no real faith legends will be very playable for pickup games as the lack of points makes arranging things a hassle (remember how dead AoS was before the generals handbook? Think legends will be more of the same). 

 

Honestly if it does play out like that I'll be a bit disappointed with how the AoS team has handled the discontinued units when compared to how stellar the 40k team have been with indexs recently - 40k are happily supporting my ancient lead Imperial Guard Rough Riders from many years back (to the point that it inspired me to convert up a bunch more from imperial guard and freeguild outriders which while costly was totally worth it for the end result) while AoS may be dropping support for two and a half year old plastics. 

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Maybe even drop a message to GW themselves. I know they can't support every model ever created but if legends is successful (which, considering how quickly some of it sold out, was either a knock out or they were only able to make a very small amount of stock) but they may be willing to give legends a points cost. They would probably have to still ban the stuff from tournaments and official things, as otherwise they would have to update the legends stuff each year as well, which would then defeat the point of having it separated in the first place. Even if it is only a basic and rough guide in the legends documents. That or release a 'formula' that allows to calculate a rough points cost ourselves, like they did with skirmish.

 

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11 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

Probably not my spearmen, archers, bolt throwers, silverhelms and Seahelm sadly. My Phoenix Guard, Lion Rangers, Dragon etc will still be usable (in the same way as I was already having to run mixed order) but I wont have any battleline so wont be able to put together a matched play force.

I have no real faith legends will be very playable for pickup games as the lack of points makes arranging things a hassle (remember how dead AoS was before the generals handbook? Think legends will be more of the same). 

 

Honestly if it does play out like that I'll be a bit disappointed with how the AoS team has handled the discontinued units when compared to how stellar the 40k team have been with indexs recently - 40k are happily supporting my ancient lead Imperial Guard Rough Riders from many years back (to the point that it inspired me to convert up a bunch more from imperial guard and freeguild outriders which while costly was totally worth it for the end result) while AoS may be dropping support for two and a half year old plastics. 

I thought rough-riders were not in the Astra Militarum Codex?  When all armies have a codex I expect index stuff to be slowly dropped over a few years. Thats the same situation we have been for the last 2 years with compendium.

We dont know what will happen with everything yet, some units could stay or move faction, but the Spireguard (swifthawk-only battleline, but that could change) would fit for archers and spearmen. Otherwise Dreadspears and Darkshard might be a reasonable warscroll option.

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27 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

Probably not my spearmen, archers, bolt throwers, silverhelms and Seahelm sadly. My Phoenix Guard, Lion Rangers, Dragon etc will still be usable (in the same way as I was already having to run mixed order) but I wont have any battleline so wont be able to put together a matched play force.

How about using other Warscrolls for them?

Spearmen - > Dreadspears (are Order Battleline) / Eternal Guard

Archers -> Gladeguard (are Order Battleline)

Silverhelms -> Dragon Blades

And the next thing to the Seahelm could be a Dragon Noble or one of the Heroes of Wanderers.

The Boltthrower is a little more problematic in this case but perhaps the new Bolt Thrower Warscroll the Stormcast Eternals get?

Everything is Order, so an Orderlist ist possible even if some synergies doesn't work because of multiple factions.

Edited by EMMachine
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Unless an event specifically prevents it, why could you not continue to use the most recent warscroll and points for the given compendium units if they are not updated?   Other than a general points downtrend amongst lesser-seen current models, the points aren't receiving a radical  game-wide shift to make the existing compendium points obsolete.

For those looking btw:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/25/new-and-updated-faqs-forge-world-warscrolls-and-compendium-pdfsgw-homepage-post-1/

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3 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

How about using other Warscrolls for them?

Spearmen - > Dreadspears (are Order Battleline) / Eternal Guard

Archers -> Gladeguard (are Order Battleline)

Silverhelms -> Dragon Blades

And the next thing to the Seahelm could be a Dragon Noble or one of the Heroes of Wanderers.

The Boltthrower is a little more problematic in this case but perhaps the new Bolt Thrower Warscroll the Stormcast Eternals get?

 

This. Just proxy it in. I wouldn't have any problem with playing that at any event or local store. Just have the scrolls handy to show your opponent. 

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6 minutes ago, BrAiKo said:

Unless an event specifically prevents it, why could you not continue to use the most recent warscroll and points for the given compendium units if they are not updated?   Other than a general points downtrend amongst lesser-seen current models, the points aren't receiving a radical  game-wide shift to make the existing compendium points obsolete.

For those looking btw:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/25/new-and-updated-faqs-forge-world-warscrolls-and-compendium-pdfsgw-homepage-post-1/

Yeah those are the points I use at the moment - the Seawarden command ability and the Highborn Archers Hal of Arrows ability combine quite nicely to give me a decent firebase. 

It doesn't compete with the best in the game but it's also not completely rubbish. 

I'm thinking at this point I need to get off my ass and actually write a Highborn battletome that fits Age of Sigmar- the twice abandoned and utterly desperate Highborn really aren't high elves at this stage anyway. 

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30 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

Honestly if it does play out like that I'll be a bit disappointed with how the AoS team has handled the discontinued units when compared to how stellar the 40k team have been with indexs recently - 40k are happily supporting my ancient lead Imperial Guard Rough Riders from many years back (to the point that it inspired me to convert up a bunch more from imperial guard and freeguild outriders which while costly was totally worth it for the end result) while AoS may be dropping support for two and a half year old plastics. 

Just to point out that 40k was simply a new edition of the game.  Age of Sigmar is an entirely different game set in a different world - the fact we've been able to use any old models (especially ones no longer manufactured) has actually been a real positive.

Warhammer Legends is being created with warscrolls for each unit in classic Warhammer armies.  It's not intended to be used in Age of Sigmar (hence being called Warhammer Legends, not AoS Legends), if it does get a points system, I can imagine it being on a different scale to AoS.  Best of all is that legends is free!

What models are being dropped that are just two and a half year old?

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58 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

Probably not my spearmen, archers, bolt throwers, silverhelms and Seahelm sadly. My Phoenix Guard, Lion Rangers, Dragon etc will still be usable (in the same way as I was already having to run mixed order) but I wont have any battleline so wont be able to put together a matched play force.

I have no real faith legends will be very playable for pickup games as the lack of points makes arranging things a hassle (remember how dead AoS was before the generals handbook? Think legends will be more of the same). 

7

Spearmen should be easy, just give them shields and here comes your new Spireguard, but the archers...I have been thinking about that too and there are not many possibilities. If you somehow manage to add swords to them, they can become Shadow Warriors but otherwise, turning them into  Glade guard is probably the only possibility and would give you mixed order battleline unit too.

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40 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

How about using other Warscrolls for them?

Spearmen - > Dreadspears (are Order Battleline) / Eternal Guard

Archers -> Gladeguard (are Order Battleline)

Silverhelms -> Dragon Blades

And the next thing to the Seahelm could be a Dragon Noble or one of the Heroes of Wanderers.

The Boltthrower is a little more problematic in this case but perhaps the new Bolt Thrower Warscroll the Stormcast Eternals get?

Everything is Order, so an Orderlist ist possible even if some synergies doesn't work because of multiple factions.

I believe this is exactly why the high elf archers etc. were removed. They needed to clear out catalogue items to make room for the new AoS stuff due business reasons and if something needs to go, there is no point on having multiple different but same elven knights, archers or spearmen.

Only the repeater bolt thrower removal has always puzzled me. the high elf plastic model is relatively new, it's iconic unit in Warhammer and there is nothing to replace it with. 

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32 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

Just to point out that 40k was simply a new edition of the game.  Age of Sigmar is an entirely different game set in a different world - the fact we've been able to use any old models (especially ones no longer manufactured) has actually been a real positive.

Warhammer Legends is being created with warscrolls for each unit in classic Warhammer armies.  It's not intended to be used in Age of Sigmar (hence being called Warhammer Legends, not AoS Legends), if it does get a points system, I can imagine it being on a different scale to AoS.  Best of all is that legends is free!

What models are being dropped that are just two and a half year old?

 

Models from a few years ago still being usable is a positive and will continue to be so as long as it continues, it's not an entirely new model range in fact especially at release new products only made up a tiny part of the Age of Sigmar model range. Though I think making them unusable on day 1 would have been a PR disaster far beyond what AoS already was. 

Warhammer legends looks very much like it will be like release AoS (a game without structure or a playerbase). I'd like to be wrong on that one but I've called most stuff right so far so we'll see. It's also ironically less use to me as I've Age of Sigmar'd the hell out of my stuff to the point that a lot of it really doesn't look very high elf at all - it's certainly not a world that was army.

The plastics I was referring to were the full high elf range that was selling only a few years ago- I decided to get into warhammer at the end of 8th and purchased the High Elf army box and a couple of battalion boxes then warhammer ended and High Elves were discontinued(my timing was terrible). 

Edit: it was just over 3 years ago now I think about it- time flies!

Edited by MrZakalwe
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1 minute ago, MrZakalwe said:

Warhammer legends looks very much like it will be like release AoS (a game without structure or a playerbase)

That's not entirely accurate though.  There were a lot of players of AoS when the game originally dropped, although a lot of mistakes were made at release it had a pretty decent following.  I'm sure that it won't be long and somebody will come up with a Legends points system with core rule modifications - it's very much going to be a community driven effort.  This is what actually happened for AoS and ultimately GW picked it up and Generals Handbook was born.

We also know that there are more Aelf releases in the pipeline - it was dropped into an article the other day that both Tyrion and Malerion have their own Aelf races, which I'd be very surprised if they don't make an appearance at some point.  However I think a lot of classic units won't be included.

5 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

The plastics I was referring to were the full high elf range that was selling only a few years ago- I decided to get into warhammer at the end of 8th and purchased the High Elf army box and a couple of battalion boxes then warhammer ended and High Elves were discontinued(my timing was terrible). 

That makes sense - I thought for a minute you meant something that had come out in the last few years.  Sadly I think your timing was a little off with that!  My brother has Tomb Kings so I know entirely where you've coming from.

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13 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

We also know that there are more Aelf releases in the pipeline - it was dropped into an article the other day that both Tyrion and Malerion have their own Aelf races, which I'd be very surprised if they don't make an appearance at some point.  However I think a lot of classic units won't be included.

 

I just have to hope that Tyrion's Aelves have spearmen and bowmen so I can use these as proxies. Dreadspears and Glade Guard would both be a serious stop down and I've invested serious time in painting and converting them into Age of Sigmar models from warhammer ones. 

Edited by MrZakalwe
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4 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

 

I just have to hope that Tyrion's Aelves have spearmen and bowmen so I can use these as proxies. Dreadspears and Glade Guard would both be a serious stop down and I've invested serious time in painting and converting them into Age of Sigmar models from warhammer ones. 

I wouldn't hold out hope for there being much in common between the new elves and your collection. If the Idoneth are anything to go by, both new factions are likely to be totally unique and weird rather than just rehashes of High and Dark elves. 

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3 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said:

I wouldn't hold out hope for there being much in common between the new elves and your collection. If the Idoneth are anything to go by, both new factions are likely to be totally unique and weird rather than just rehashes of High and Dark elves. 

Well it's hope for that or accept that my models are now pretty paper weights. 

I'll go with hope for now. 

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26 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

Dreadspears and Glade Guard would both be a serious stop down and I've invested serious time in painting and converting them into Age of Sigmar models from warhammer ones. 

I'm actually a little confused right know. What is the problem here using your models with the Warscroll of another unit that is legally usable in the game and is part of the Lore. You could even use the Namarti Reavers Warscroll for your Archers if you like them more.

Why does it have to be "this is a faction that is exactly like a Race that existed Thousands of Years ago before the world exploded with most exactly those rules".

You said in the other thread that your Army should be Desert/Aqshy based with Greek elements

So why does it have to be 100% Highborn Aelfs?

Edit

My faithful of Eloni were planned as Free People first, when I changed them to more Wanderers Themed (like parts of the models were), I had the problem that I have a unit with Sword & Shield (no unit existing for Wanderers) and my "Paladins" were way to armoured to be Wildwood Rangers. So the Sword & Shield Unit will be Bleakswords now and my "Paladins" Swordmasters and a Loremaster.

Edited by EMMachine
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38 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

So why does it have to be 100% Highborn Aelfs?

It doesn't but the storyline of the Highborn really appeals to me; they were recreated by sigmar, their gods dead and the lands that so defined them now cosmic debris, they spread across the mortal realms only to be nearly wiped out again. After sheltering in Azyr for an age their new gods abandon them (Tyrion and Teclis no longer have any time for them) and they set out into the mortal realms once more.

 

By this stage of the story the Highborn really have little in common with the High Elves of the World That Was aside from inbuilt arrogance, speed, and magical talent. They are twice abandoned and utterly desperate.

It might not have been so bitter a story if they didn't have Teclis and Tyrion to walk among them in Azyr and speak with misty eyes of the glory that once was. Now they can look at the ashes of their own future and imagine what could have been. 

38 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Got any pics of these AoSified Aelves? 

I will sort out some more snaps when I get home but here's an old album. There's now 60 of the spearmen, 10 Silverhelms, and 30 archers painted up along with a couple of Loremasters, a quite nice Seawarden, and Archmage. I warn you the picture quality is terrible as it was taken on a 5 year old phone (for somebody with a technical job I'm a luddite for mobile technology that isn't a kindle). 


https://imgur.com/a/cIciN

This was from soon after I decided I wasn't happy to play with grey plastic any more. 

Edited by MrZakalwe
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57 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

 

I'll go with hope for now. 

You know what the Emperor has to say about hope.

 

I feel your pain. There are a lot of hateful people who are far too gleeful at the thought of older models being removed from the current game. It's perplexing, but I've learned over the years that some folks are just mean, or at the very least self-centered and uncaring.

Were I you (and to a degree as a Tomb Kings fan I am), I'd follow the advice given here to keep playing with the most recent warscrolls and points you have. Just because they don't get updated doesn't mean the old ones are invalid.

What I would not do is proxy. It's confusing and takes a piece of the essence of your army out or twists it.

Stay strong. You'll have fun with your High Elves for years to come.

Edited by Sleboda

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