Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[divinemadman]

Any thoughts on the below skyborne slayers list? It feels pretty cookie cutter but I wanted to throw in the arch mage instead of a Lord-Castelant to give my paladins an AOE save after save. I haven't got my book yet but I believe lightning chariot can be used on any friendly unit, the plan is to lightning chariot the Archmage somewhere in cover after casting elemental shield. 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Leaders
Archmage (120)
- Allies
Lord-Celestant (100)
- General
- Command Trait : Staunch Defender
- Artefact : Mirrorshield
Knight-Venator (120)
- Artefact : Luckstone
Lord-Relictor (80)
- Prayer : Lightning Chariot
Units
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
- 1 x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
- 1 x Grandhammers
10 x Paladin Decimators (400)
- 4 x Starsoul Maces
10 x Paladin Protectors (400)
- 4 x Starsoul Maces
Battalions
The Skyborne Slayers (240)
Reinforcement Points (0)
Total: 1980 / 2000 
Allies: 120 / 400
Leaders: 4/6 Battlelines: 4 (3+) Behemoths: 0/4 Artillery: 0/4

[Requizen]

21 minutes ago, divinemadman said:

Any thoughts on the below skyborne slayers list? It feels pretty cookie cutter but I wanted to throw in the arch mage instead of a Lord-Castelant to give my paladins an AOE save after save. I haven't got my book yet but I believe lightning chariot can be used on any friendly unit, the plan is to lightning chariot the Archmage somewhere in cover after casting elemental shield. 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Leaders
Archmage (120)
- Allies
Lord-Celestant (100)
- General
- Command Trait : Staunch Defender
- Artefact : Mirrorshield
Knight-Venator (120)
- Artefact : Luckstone
Lord-Relictor (80)
- Prayer : Lightning Chariot
Units
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
- 1 x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
- 1 x Grandhammers
10 x Paladin Decimators (400)
- 4 x Starsoul Maces
10 x Paladin Protectors (400)
- 4 x Starsoul Maces
Battalions
The Skyborne Slayers (240)
Reinforcement Points (0)
Total: 1980 / 2000 
Allies: 120 / 400
Leaders: 4/6 Battlelines: 4 (3+) Behemoths: 0/4 Artillery: 0/4

Looks like a pretty standard Skyborne list. Could potentially cut the Decimators in half to get Longstrikes for some extra shooting but that's not super necessary. Big Battalions like this generally write themselves, so it'll look much the same as most other Skyborne lists.

It's solid, though. If you like hard Alpha Strike armies, it's one of the better choices imo. 

 

Edit: Lightning Chariot is Stormcast only.

[divinemadman]

13 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Edit: Lightning Chariot is Stormcast only.

Are you sure friend sent me quick snap of the prayers page and I cannot find anywhere where it says you can only target SCE units with the prayer. Lightning chariot reads the priest or a friendly unit within 3" can you point me in the direction of an FAQ or section that specifies friendly as non SCE units or that prayers can only target SCE units?

[Requizen]

Hm, you're right. I just assumed since most stuff in the book is limited to SC units.  Neat trick for sure.

 

Edit: could potentially be useful to do things like teleport offensive Wizards into range of their spells. Would have to see what spells mesh well with that.

[divinemadman]

10 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Hm, you're right. I just assumed since most stuff in the book is limited to SC units.  Neat trick for sure.

 

Edit: could potentially be useful to do things like teleport offensive Wizards into range of their spells. Would have to see what spells mesh well with that.

I'm going to start with the archmage  as I have one but definitely for other lists there may be some cool little bits of utility. Do order have any nice big AOE spells like a gaunt summoner?

 

Edit: Maybe Drycha Hammadreth? interesting hamadreth bomb and fits into allies .

[Requizen]

Top 3 Order units to mesh with Lightning Chariot, in my opinion:

Drycha: As @divinemadman said above, both her spell and her Colony of Flutterflurries want to be right up in the middle of the enemy, and she's also a big scary monster who has to be dealt with, Distraction Carnifex style. Potentially a great choice.

Celestial Hurricanum: While you might want to just keep it in the backfield by your shooting units, you may also want to deliver this to 18" from a juicy target, putting it right in range of both the d6 MW spell and the devastating Storm of Shemtek shooting attack. On average doing 6-9 MWs to a unit the opponent thought safe could be quite the surprise.

Freeguild Handgunners: Lightning Chariot doesn't count as moving. 30 Handgunners jumping up into range, firing 30 shots on 3+/3+/-1/D1 and potentially grabbing an objective with their large model count is huge. With the Piper, melee armies will also be loathe to charge into them. This is a very interesting use of the Allies slot.

[divinemadman]

17 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Top 3 Order units to mesh with Lightning Chariot, in my opinion:

Drycha: As @divinemadman said above, both her spell and her Colony of Flutterflurries want to be right up in the middle of the enemy, and she's also a big scary monster who has to be dealt with, Distraction Carnifex style. Potentially a great choice.

Celestial Hurricanum: While you might want to just keep it in the backfield by your shooting units, you may also want to deliver this to 18" from a juicy target, putting it right in range of both the d6 MW spell and the devastating Storm of Shemtek shooting attack. On average doing 6-9 MWs to a unit the opponent thought safe could be quite the surprise.

Freeguild Handgunners: Lightning Chariot doesn't count as moving. 30 Handgunners jumping up into range, firing 30 shots on 3+/3+/-1/D1 and potentially grabbing an objective with their large model count is huge. With the Piper, melee armies will also be loathe to charge into them. This is a very interesting use of the Allies slot.

To add to the Freeguild handgunners if I am reading this correctly you could take the below as allies for some real shenanigans.

Any SCE hero with the Consummate Commander trait.

Lord Relictor with Lightning chariot.

Freeguild General 100 (Selected hero for consummate commander)

30 Freeguild Handgunners 300

 

You use the Freeguild General command trait on the gunners, then you lightning chariot them into position enjoy 30 2+/2+ -1 rend shots into your target of choice you could take an objective with the large size and deal some descent damage at the same time.

[Requizen]

I'd almost want 2 Relictors (or Veritants, I guess) if you're doing stuff like this since you can always fail that 3+. Failing two in a row is less likely, and also gives you more mobility if pass the first one.

[Turragor]

This feels too big to be intentional! I know I know it's SCE allies only (prayers come with the SCE  allegiance) but lightning chariot on allies feels like a way SCE will dominate the meta. 

Maybe I'm jumping the gun. What about warmachines or allied behemoths and the like?

Even those 30 vulkites I'm toying with the idea of. 9 inches from the enemy jeepers

[CountryMou3e]

19 minutes ago, Turragor said:

This feels too big to be intentional! I know I know it's SCE allies only (prayers come with the SCE  allegiance) but lightning chariot on allies feels like a way SCE will dominate the meta. 

Maybe I'm jumping the gun. What about warmachines or allied behemoths and the like?

Even those 30 vulkites I'm toying with the idea of. 9 inches from the enemy jeepers

This is very interesting for sure 

[Turragor]

I'm just checking order scrolls at random and noting new combos in light of this. 

Executioners can re-roll 1 die on the charge (9 inches becomes more likely). 

The blood wrack shrines stare attack is 10 inches - "clutch" one might say.  

[Requizen]

Yeah I'm gonna assume this was unintentional. Allegiance Abilities came out in a time before Allies, so it likely was not designed with allies in mind.

For instance: looking again at those 30 allied Handgunners with an General. If you have another Priest give them Bless weapons, they'll be hitting on a 2+, getting extra shots on a 3+. 

Take that allied detachment, take 4 Relictors (two Bless Weapons, two Lightning Chariots). Enjoy having one of the most brutal shooting units in the entire game. It makes Aetherstrike Longstrikes look like a joke. 30 shots = 25 hits + (20 extra shots = 16.6 extra hits) = 41.6 hits = 34.7 wounds at -1.

11 wounds on a 2+ model, 17 wounds on a 3+ model, 23 wounds on a 4+ model. See that Thundertusk? No you don't. Nagash is dead or alive with a single wound (unless buffed to 2+ ignore Rend, but then you just kill Neferata). 

How's that for an Alpha Strike? Of course, you need 400 points of Allies + 360 points of Relictors to do it and the unit dies immediately afterwards to any sort of counterattack, so ups and down.

[Turragor]

It's just all the prayers... "priest and friendly unit". Bless weapons being another one for potentially interesting combos.

The wording seems rather intentional. Maybe the fact you need the allegiance means they didn't think they'd need to specify 'SCE'.

All the same maybe this is thought through and is working as it should. I feel it's too early to say how good this is with allies but I know my lists need altered for now!

[Turragor]

14 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Yeah I'm gonna assume this was unintentional. Allegiance Abilities came out in a time before Allies, so it likely was not designed with allies in mind.

For instance: looking again at those 30 allied Handgunners with an General. If you have another Priest give them Bless weapons, they'll be hitting on a 2+, getting extra shots on a 3+. 

Take that allied detachment, take 4 Relictors (two Bless Weapons, two Lightning Chariots). Enjoy having one of the most brutal shooting units in the entire game. It makes Aetherstrike Longstrikes look like a joke. 30 shots = 25 hits + (20 extra shots = 16.6 extra hits) = 41.6 hits = 34.7 wounds at -1.

11 wounds on a 2+ model, 17 wounds on a 3+ model, 23 wounds on a 4+ model. See that Thundertusk? No you don't. Nagash is dead or alive with a single wound (unless buffed to 2+ ignore Rend, but then you just kill Neferata). 

How's that for an Alpha Strike? Of course, you need 400 points of Allies + 360 points of Relictors to do it and the unit dies immediately afterwards to any sort of counterattack, so ups and down.

Yeah there are some silly things possible and I think this might be FAQd away. Even if the points end up being a lot to pull off these "one shot" tricks. Never say that these kinds of tricks don't win games though!

I'll not plan any stupid lists around this but will have fun with my next game and some proxied test units (I've been informed by the fyreslayers player I'm playing next that 30 vulkites charioted onto an objective is tough to ignore and tough to deal with).

 

EDIT/ Im a little uncertain about the allegiance abilities coming before the allies system because the command traits, the main SCE trait, all standards and lights have the SCE keyword. The prayers say priest and friendly unit. We will see in due time no doubt!

[Thomas Lyons]

4 hours ago, Requizen said:

Top 3 Order units to mesh with Lightning Chariot, in my opinion:

Drycha: As @divinemadman said above, both her spell and her Colony of Flutterflurries want to be right up in the middle of the enemy, and she's also a big scary monster who has to be dealt with, Distraction Carnifex style. Potentially a great choice.

Celestial Hurricanum: While you might want to just keep it in the backfield by your shooting units, you may also want to deliver this to 18" from a juicy target, putting it right in range of both the d6 MW spell and the devastating Storm of Shemtek shooting attack. On average doing 6-9 MWs to a unit the opponent thought safe could be quite the surprise.

Freeguild Handgunners: Lightning Chariot doesn't count as moving. 30 Handgunners jumping up into range, firing 30 shots on 3+/3+/-1/D1 and potentially grabbing an objective with their large model count is huge. With the Piper, melee armies will also be loathe to charge into them. This is a very interesting use of the Allies slot.

A unit of 3 Bloodwrack Medusa is going to do WAY more damage against hordes than any of those options ;-)

[Requizen]

25 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

A unit of 3 Bloodwrack Medusa is going to do WAY more damage against hordes than any of those options ;-)

To a horde? Sure. But, a Celestial Hurricanum, between Storm of Shemtek and Comet of Casandora will deal an average of 8.75 MWs to a unit of any size. Though with more variance, to be fair. And even without the General and Bless Weapons buff, a unit of 30 Handgunners will deal 13 wounds with Rend -1, which against hordes of 5+ dudes will deal 11 Wounds. 

Bloodwrack Stare will deal 6 wounds to a unit of 20, 10 to a unit of 30. So, 18 and 30 respectively for a unit of three.

Both of them deal less to a single Horde, but not every army will be Horde-centric and both deal a pretty high number of wounds to a Horde unit anyway. 

I think if the meta ends up being all horde all the time, it's a solid pick, though. 

[Thomas Lyons]

5 hours ago, Requizen said:

To a horde? Sure. But, a Celestial Hurricanum, between Storm of Shemtek and Comet of Casandora will deal an average of 8.75 MWs to a unit of any size. Though with more variance, to be fair. And even without the General and Bless Weapons buff, a unit of 30 Handgunners will deal 13 wounds with Rend -1, which against hordes of 5+ dudes will deal 11 Wounds. 

Bloodwrack Stare will deal 6 wounds to a unit of 20, 10 to a unit of 30. So, 18 and 30 respectively for a unit of three.

Both of them deal less to a single Horde, but not every army will be Horde-centric and both deal a pretty high number of wounds to a Horde unit anyway. 

I think if the meta ends up being all horde all the time, it's a solid pick, though. 

Your math isn't right.  For each medusa, you roll a dice for every model in the unit and do a mortal wound on a 5+.  A unit of 3 medusa (360) will do 9 mortal wounds to a unit of 10 models (since they resolve simultaneously).  That same 3 medusa will do 18 mortal wounds to a 20 model unit, or 30 wounds to a 30 model unit.  

Pound for pound, Medusa's output will scale with the unit size.  The only time they come up short is against single models.

Their main drawback is getting them within range for the stare. The Lightning Chariot solves this.

[Nubgan]

Its very hard to want a pure force when things like this crop up. If this ally/lightning chariot combo remains a thing then it will be a fantastic objective grabber for Stormcast, especially these 20+ to auto claim ones. It might prove decent to use it with my Eternal Guard block I have in the short term, especially been as they don't count as having moved to gain the Fortress of boughs save.

[Turragor]

I think when you have SCE units you want or need to take that put you over 1600 then you will go mostly pure. Battalions or LCoSD and dracoth list. Things like that.

Paint the allies like your stormhost and they are a little militia element.

I quite like it as otherwise I feel no compulsion to take allies. A battlemage could be nice in an otherwise SCE force. Aside from that it's just  a question of your own choice in dealing with the new horde meta. Beat them or join them?

[Siorra]

I played a friendly 2 vs 3 games where me and my friend had 1500 points of SCE and Seraphon each. I used Lightning Chariot on his Bastiladon with an Ark of Sotek to an objective. It's hard to kill and people don't want to go near it to risk the mortal wounds. Great way to aid a slow objective holder.

What I don't understand is how everyone raves about Lightning Chariot with it's limited range yet no one's taking Vexillor's to do the same with unlimited range. I know it's once per game and a higher points cost, but dropping 10 liberators behind an enemy objective makes people panic and leave themselves vulnerable. Has worked for me on a number of occaisions. We are playing an objective game afterall.

[Turragor]

42 minutes ago, Siorra said:

I played a friendly 2 vs 3 games where me and my friend had 1500 points of SCE and Seraphon each. I used Lightning Chariot on his Bastiladon with an Ark of Sotek to an objective. It's hard to kill and people don't want to go near it to risk the mortal wounds. Great way to aid a slow objective holder.

What I don't understand is how everyone raves about Lightning Chariot with it's limited range yet no one's taking Vexillor's to do the same with unlimited range. I know it's once per game and a higher points cost, but dropping 10 liberators behind an enemy objective makes people panic and leave themselves vulnerable. Has worked for me on a number of occaisions. We are playing an objective game afterall.

Vex is strong but it's 1shot, still 9", he's nearly double the price of a relictor and it is SCE only.

After that the Vex doesn't do much either (the reroll is actually nice but he'll be far from those that need it most likely, so slow).

Vex and 10 rets was the first proper SCE alpha hammer.  Good times!

[Nico]

Presumably the "Rage" is due to the fact that the SCE Prayers work on any unit while the Khorne ones don't. I suspect this is an inadvertent consequence of Allies and may get FAQed in due course.

[Siorra]

1 hour ago, Turragor said:

Vex is strong but it's 1shot, still 9", he's nearly double the price of a relictor and it is SCE only.

After that the Vex doesn't do much either (the reroll is actually nice but he'll be far from those that need it most likely, so slow).

Vex and 10 rets was the first proper SCE alpha hammer.  Good times!

I admit he is dreadful once you've exhausted the pennant. 4 attacks at 4+/3+/1 will do 1 wound per combat round, if you're lucky.

I still don't see Lightning Chariot being changed though.

[Turragor]

31 minutes ago, Nico said:

Presumably the "Rage" is due to the fact that the SCE Prayers work on any unit while the Khorne ones don't. I suspect this is an inadvertent consequence of Allies and may get FAQed in due course.

 

15 minutes ago, Siorra said:

I admit he is dreadful once you've exhausted the pennant. 4 attacks at 4+/3+/1 will do 1 wound per combat round, if you're lucky.

I still don't see Lightning Chariot being changed though.

I am not sure if it'll be FAQd away quick or if it'll wait on SCE getting top results in a few tourneys (due to unforeseen teleporting combos from allied detachments) before they FAQ it away. And if they don't then does it need FAQd?

My gut says probably yes. Feels like 80% + chance it'll be FAQd away.

[chord]

17 hours ago, Turragor said:

I'm just checking order scrolls at random and noting new combos in light of this. 

Executioners can re-roll 1 die on the charge (9 inches becomes more likely). 

The blood wrack shrines stare attack is 10 inches - "clutch" one might say.  

Maybe teleporting a drake seer into range during the hero phase.  It's a risk,  but that would give you their spell which has the potential with good roles to do lots of MW's.  Also then you get the dragon breath as well.  Of course you roll bad it was all for naught.