Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[Thebiggesthat]

So lessons from my game last night...

 

Bless weapons on the longstrikes just aren't worth it. I'll be taking lightning chariot next time, just for the mobility. Does lightning chariot count as a move, for the purposes of the longstrike range bonus?

Small units of Libs serve no purpose. I keep finding this. So now, so I drop one and find 60 point for another judicator unit? That's certainly the plan for next game.

I really need some anti horde removal. I'm thinking decimators

[Iradekhorne]

Decimators and retributors are good options,  one unit of 10 retributors and a vexillior are really dangerus for crush the oponent combos, but I think the retributors are worth it cause they are much more polivalent, you can destroy enemy hero combo, destroy his monster or his hordes. But with decimators you only kill his hordes. Maybie 5 decimators can hold one horde,but in this case you have desolators, who can tank a horde in coberture easy saving at 2+ rerolling oned, and strike well in response, waiting for the rest of your army to clean the horde.

For hordes the palladors and hunters are really good cause his crossbows hit hard, if a unit of liberators can tank it, they can shoot him hard in numbers (against hordes of 5-6 save like zómbies, skeletons, Marauders, etc).

I think unit of 10 liberators and a castellant is worth it to tank enemis and strike hard in response cause they save at 3+ rerolling ones, and they have 2 grand maces to response.

I dont like judicators and  hurricane crossbows, for 20 points more you have the longstrike crossbows who are much better.

And maybie for allies a unit of 30 handgunners who cand stay and shoot if the enemy chargue to him, or 30 dwarf thunderers or  20 dwarf+runelord are specially brutal against hordes in general, but specially hordes with 4+ save. They are really scari, 2 rounds of shoots and they clean the game of hordes.

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, Thebiggesthat said:

Does lightning chariot count as a move, for the purposes of the longstrike range bonus?

No - and there are a number of neat things you can do as a result!

1 hour ago, Thebiggesthat said:

Small units of Libs serve no purpose. I keep finding this. So now, so I drop one and find 60 point for another judicator unit?

They are a bit meh but you need the battleline and (in my lists anyway) I find 3 x 160 hard to come by. I tend to use them as a speed bump only and think I get 100 pts value out of them in that way often enough.

[Iradekhorne]

4 minutes ago, Turragor said:

No - and there are a number of neat things you can do as a result!

They are a bit meh but you need the battleline and (in my lists anyway) I find 3 x 160 hard to come by. I tend to use them as a speed bump only and think I get 100 pts value out of them in that way often enough.

A unit of 5 liberators  are a bit useles.cause when you kill 2 they loose his response power and you feel bad buffing it with castellant...

But a unit of 10 is worth cause if the enemy havent rend they save to 3+ rerolling ones, and have 2 grandmaces to response. And if you put it in cover they save at 2+ rerolling onesc and they are expendable if the enemy use his mortal wounds to kill a unit of 20 wounds for 200 points you are doing very well ^^

[Turragor]

14 minutes ago, Iradekhorne said:

A unit of 5 liberators  are a bit useles.cause when you kill 2 they loose his response power and you feel bad buffing it with castellant...

But a unit of 10 is worth cause if the enemy havent rend they save to 3+ rerolling ones, and have 2 grandmaces to response. And if you put it in cover they save at 2+ rerolling onesc and they are expendable if the enemy use his mortal wounds to kill a unit of 20 wounds for 200 points you are doing very well ^^

If you are putting the castellant buff on 10 liberators you should probably have more than one castellant as the best combo for the buff is with multiwound units (more than 2 wounds anyway). LCoSD is the classic and current flavour. Other heroes can make use of it too.

I mean you could invest heavily in a liberator in a list - a true shield wall. I'd recommend at least 15 rather than 10 (for board coverage) and the castellant buff along with staunch defenders (conga line them out from the general).

 

[Thebiggesthat]

I think I've probably misused the Libs, but they just seem useless at 5 man squads. But I'm the same, trying to find 3 x 160 in a list is impossible, and I'm certainly not dropping Raptors or Fulminators to take a slightly better battleline. 

I think the following for my next game

LSoD Staunch Defender, Relic opponent dependant but silvered sigmarite or mirrorshield, Tempestos Hammer

Relictor Lightning Chariot

Castelant 

 

Libs 5 hammers and shields, Warhammer

Libs 5 hammers and shields (no warhammer until I convert one)

Juds 5 bows with Shockbolt

 

2 Fulminators

6 Longstrikes

5 Decimators, 1 Starsoul

 

This takes me to 1560, so maybe a hound to sit with the Longstrikes?

 

This is only as we stuck to 1600 last night, if the opponent fancies going to 2k (he's learning at the moment) I can drop the LCoD, bring in the LCoSD. I then have 100 left, to either bump up the libs to a 10 man, or throw in a foot Lord Celestant

[CountryMou3e]

19 hours ago, Lez said:

I'm glad you enjoyed playing with it, I was tempted to drop the heraldor for a loremaster.

lets you make the venator a boss in the list and allows you to mitagate the chances of whiffing with the Drake.

as a personal thing I'd never drop the Relictor, his healing ability and -1 to hit prayer is amazing. 

not to mention lightning chariot as getting the castellant in range for he lantern buff can be hard if you are pushing the Drake forward.

I've always found I have to take stock and consider the next turn in each hero phase  and teleport the castellant to the best position to buff the Drake next turn. 

 

Obviosuly this is all just my opinion, mix it up and try some stuff out man  

This is the variation I’m going to give a whirl this weekend. Should hopefully get two to three games with it. I dropped the heraldor, relictor and prosecutors in favour of a loremaster and 6 skywardens. The loremaster is for as you’ve described above. My thinking with the skywardens, they have a longer threat range then prosecutors, throw a few more dice and I hope (by having two drill canons) the threat to high save targets and behemoths is real... I’m going to toy with two units of three or one of six. Thanks for the inspiration  

On a side note , if only you were still in the WC chat. I’d be harassing you for tactica haha 

edit: I’ll run another game dropping 3 skywardens and I’ll add a relictor and gryph hound for 2k on the nose 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord-Celestant On Stardrake (560)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
Lord-Castellant (100)
Knight-Venator (120)
Loremaster (100)

Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Stormcast Eternals Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Stormcast Eternals Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers

Units
2 x Fulminators (240)
2 x Fulminators (240)
6 x Skywardens (200)
- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 2x Drill Cannons

Total: 1980/2000
 

[Thebiggesthat]

With that list, are you relying on the SD eating hordes of skeletons/demons etc? I'm thinking if you can remove the buff pieces from your opponent it nullifies the threat somewhat, but they will still sit on objectives 

[CountryMou3e]

36 minutes ago, Thebiggesthat said:

With that list, are you relying on the SD eating hordes of skeletons/demons etc? I'm thinking if you can remove the buff pieces from your opponent it nullifies the threat somewhat, but they will still sit on objectives 

There’s plenty to chew through hordes. Fulminators are more then capable of deleting elite units and chewing thorough blobs alike.  You just have to be smart about your target choice when playing for objectives. 

[Thebiggesthat]

Yeah, I guess on the charge they will do some serious wounds. I'm still looking at Decimators, I just need to think about the best way to mitigate the slowness (Lightning chariot being an obvious one)

[Louzi]

Anyone thinking of taking 30 Vulkites in a SCE list? Those little Slayers are pretty resilent on their own and give us access to one of the best horde units in the game...seems much better to me than a big unit of liberators...

[CountryMou3e]

1 hour ago, Thebiggesthat said:

Yeah, I guess on the charge they will do some serious wounds. I'm still looking at Decimators, I just need to think about the best way to mitigate the slowness (Lightning chariot being an obvious one)

Bit of a one trick pony though. Unless you take a couple of star souls but then what’s the point in taking decimators at all. I’d probably go protectors if taking paladins 

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, Louzi said:

Anyone thinking of taking 30 Vulkites in a SCE list? Those little Slayers are pretty resilent on their own and give us access to one of the best horde units in the game...seems much better to me than a big unit of liberators...

I think skinks are probably better as a horde unit but vulkites could be neat in place of a tough lib unit. Some Fyreslayer durability comes from their hero buffs. Which means as allies they're not as strong. Probably still worth trying out.

[Thebiggesthat]

9 minutes ago, CountryMou3e said:

Bit of a one trick pony though. Unless you take a couple of star souls but then what’s the point in taking decimators at all. I’d probably go protectors if taking paladins 

It's one trick, but if 90 percent of opponents are going to take something a Decimator unit can devour, then it's a very useful trick

[CountryMou3e]

6 minutes ago, Thebiggesthat said:

It's one trick, but if 90 percent of opponents are going to take something a Decimator unit can devour, then it's a very useful trick

I do agree with you. I guess this comes down to mobility for me and personal preference  

[Thebiggesthat]

Yes, mobility is the only thing stopping me buying some straight after work (that and the shop is closed Thursdays). 

On the order side of things, do we have many buff pieces that can re roll failed charges or add to charge distance?

[Sangfroid]

Knight vexillor allows you to reroll charges (plus artifact can be given to reroll a result of one on either dice) 

also on the subject of decimators add in 2 starsoul maces and I think these guys are excellent all round troops for dealing with anything their -2 bravery debuff is not to be under estimated, 

 

for example if if you hit 3 kurnoth hunters with the 5 decimators and manage to kill just one (should on average do that just with starsouls) they are taking a battleshock test and losing models on a 5 or 6. 

[Thebiggesthat]

I'm thinking of running no Starsouls. 

with 25mm bases, you will be looking at 5-6 attacks each, I'm no mathhammer, but say 4 hits, 3 wounds? if not more should you get lucky pile in? 

D3 mortal wounds don't seem as appealing as 6 attacks at 3/3. Again, I'm not really into the mathhammer so I might be talking out my rear

[Sangfroid]

5 minutes ago, Thebiggesthat said:

I'm thinking of running no Starsouls. 

with 25mm bases, you will be looking at 5-6 attacks each, I'm no mathhammer, but say 4 hits, 3 wounds? if not more should you get lucky pile in? 

D3 mortal wounds don't seem as appealing as 6 attacks at 3/3. Again, I'm not really into the mathhammer so I might be talking out my rear

6 attacks against a 4+ armour save target on average should do 1.72 wounds, 2.16 agasint a 5+ target and 2.61 against a 6+ target 

a starsoul mace will do 2 or more wounds 66% of the time 

however you could have +1 to hit (Celestant on foot) or blessed weapons prayer or the other one (allows you to reroll ones can't think of its name right now) so potentially can make those 6 attacks more deadly. However a canny general can also just spaces his models exactly 1" apart and negate the axes somewhat too. 

Mortals are consistently good against almost everything hordes, monsters characters, elites etc... so would make the decimators more useful in an all comers list so to speak 

[Thebiggesthat]

3 minutes ago, Sangfroid said:

However a canny general can also just spaces his models exactly 1" apart and negate the axes somewhat too. 

 

That I did actually think about... I've noticed that with movement trays, this doesn't tend to be a thing..

[Sangfroid]

Yep a lot of the movement trays are also premeasured to be 1" apart particularly for skinks/goblins

[Thebiggesthat]

Must be area dependant as that is not the case here 

[Requizen]

2 hours ago, Turragor said:

I think skinks are probably better as a horde unit but vulkites could be neat in place of a tough lib unit. Some Fyreslayer durability comes from their hero buffs. Which means as allies they're not as strong. Probably still worth trying out.

Skinks have the mobility, shooting, and shenanigans to be annoying. Vulkites are insanely hard to remove - 5+/4+++ until you kill 10 of them, and then 5+/5+++ until you kill 10 more. And that's 4+ armor in combat with the shields.

So for missions that are "units of 20+ hold better", making it super hard to go from 30 to 19 gives you a great objective grabbing unit.

1 hour ago, Thebiggesthat said:

I'm thinking of running no Starsouls. 

with 25mm bases, you will be looking at 5-6 attacks each, I'm no mathhammer, but say 4 hits, 3 wounds? if not more should you get lucky pile in? 

D3 mortal wounds don't seem as appealing as 6 attacks at 3/3. Again, I'm not really into the mathhammer so I might be talking out my rear

You want Starsouls. 3 wounds if you get 6 attacks can still be saved. A 4+ or 5+ save unit (so 5+/6+ after rend) is likely to save at least 1. MWs don't get to be saved, and make the unit better generalists against Elite armies.

Plus, with the big base sizes, you often aren't getting all the models in anyway. So if you take the Starsouls, if you go against Hordes you put the Maces in back, if you go against big things you put the Axes in back. 

Protectors are a better generalist unit anway, imo. Will always get the full unit attacking with that 3" range, and they're also defensively better.

[Thebiggesthat]

I think it comes down to modelling choice with Protectors. I don't like the look of them with spears, and whilst I get they are better all rounders, I'm not sure I like the silly baton twirl rule either. It's awesome game wise, but seems a bit silly, like it's from the beginning of AoS where people had to pretend to talk to their dead horse or make animal noises to gain re rolls.

[Turragor]

12 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Skinks have the mobility, shooting, and shenanigans to be annoying. Vulkites are insanely hard to remove - 5+/4+++ until you kill 10 of them, and then 5+/5+++ until you kill 10 more. And that's 4+ armor in combat with the shields.

So for missions that are "units of 20+ hold better", making it super hard to go from 30 to 19 gives you a great objective grabbing unit.

You want Starsouls. 3 wounds if you get 6 attacks can still be saved. A 4+ or 5+ save unit (so 5+/6+ after rend) is likely to save at least 1. MWs don't get to be saved, and make the unit better generalists against Elite armies.

Plus, with the big base sizes, you often aren't getting all the models in anyway. So if you take the Starsouls, if you go against Hordes you put the Maces in back, if you go against big things you put the Axes in back. 

Protectors are a better generalist unit anway, imo. Will always get the full unit attacking with that 3" range, and they're also defensively better.

Thinking a bit more I'd love to try vulkites. Better in all ways except cost ofc. Which brings me to paint chore v potential in game.

80 skinks v 30 vulkites plus 70 pts over...