Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[BURF1]

31 minutes ago, bolderiz101 said:

30 x liberators 520 pts
5 x judicators skybolt bow 160 pts
3x3 prosecutor with javelins 300 pts
vanguard wing 200 pts

vanguard wing total points = 1180

lord celestant 100 staunch et mirror shield
lord castellant 100 lott
lord relictor bw 80      1460
 judicator  160   1620
fuminator 240  1860
knght heraldor 120

i feel like playing this list would be really overall in a tournament i wonder what you guys think of it?

The biggest issue I see is that you're going to be losing a lot of liberators to battleshock over the course of the game. Even with +2 bravery from large units you take a big hit and the unit will crumble pretty quick.

[CappyTan]

6 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

The biggest issue I see is that you're going to be losing a lot of liberators to battleshock over the course of the game. Even with +2 bravery from large units you take a big hit and the unit will crumble pretty quick.

I'm new myself and these kinds of lists intrigue me. Does it make sense to take Bolster Faith on the Relictor for battleshock immunity or is Bless Weapons too necessary to give the liberators teeth?

[Varred]

As I got asuggestion to scramble some list myself, I thought i might do it. Remember i didn't play even one game and this is a first shot at it.
So the list goes:

Knight Azyros

Knight Venator - Luckstone

2x5 Judicators - Bows

2x3 Vanguard Raptors - Longstrike

2x3 Aetherwings

Battalion: Aetherstrike Force

Lord Aquilor - Staunch Defender, Keen Clawed

Lord Relictor - Bless Weapons

5 Liberators - Warhammers and Greathammer

2x3 Vanguard Palladors

2000 pts

 

Is it any good?

Did i miss something?

If points are not correct it is due to Warscroll Builder as I did it on that.

Cheers

Varred

 

[boombyeyeah]

2 hours ago, bolderiz101 said:

30 x liberators 520 pts
5 x judicators skybolt bow 160 pts
3x3 prosecutor with javelins 300 pts
vanguard wing 200 pts

vanguard wing total points = 1180

lord celestant 100 staunch et mirror shield
lord castellant 100 lott
lord relictor bw 80      1460
 judicator  160   1620
fuminator 240  1860
knght heraldor 120

i feel like playing this list would be really overall in a tournament i wonder what you guys think of it?

I would play at least 2 Lord Relictors, the 4+ on blessed weapons is just too easy to fail, and its a 33%-50% dmg increase.

A quick question, if you cast blessed weapons twotimes on the same unit, do they get 2 extra attacks on 6+? I guess yes, as i was suprised to see prayers not go for "rule of one"

[bolderiz101]

yes when i played this kind of list in ghb 2016 i had 2 relictor but i think they faqed the prayer

[Lez]

12 hours ago, Turragor said:

I've always liked your lists and I've almost the models to run almost the same (would run the same if I could). 

I'm missing 2 fulminators and I'm thinking of just opting for 2 tempestors. Would you feel that I should still take a single unit 2 fulminators?

Would running a LCoD in place of 2 fulminators have the same kind of impact and use in your list or is the extra ranged save part of what keeps them durable?

Hey,

 

You could technically take tempestors in the place of the fulminators but it changes the dynamic of the list dramatically.

I feel the list becomes more defensive with tempestors making units -1 to hit. 

In my head you would have to play the Relictor more aggressive also to maximise your chance for the extra -1 to hit from the lightning storm.

 

It could work though it would depend on your playstyle? it also means the Drake needs to do even more heavy lifting in the list and sometimes he just can't cut it.

 

Celestant on dracoth could work, he can be pretty aggressive and is only a couple of wounds less than a unit of fulminators. Again the dynamic of list would change as you would need to lose a character for him to fit.

 

The fulminators work so well in my opinion due to the shooting resilience like you have mentioned.

In the current shooting meta the 1+ re rolling 1's when in range of the Drake for staunch defender is great. You don't have to worry about Any non mortal wound shooting! As most shooting out their is only rend 1.

They also work well because they can deal with things the Drake can't.

I generally setup a counter charge of fulminators after the stardrake charges and fights something. 

Normally the fulminators are 6" away so I can mortal wound the target before the Drake fights it, if it needs help the fulminators go in on usually on my chance for the double turn. This allows me to 6"shoot fight then if I get the turn do the double mortal wound breath before the enemy can hit me back.

 

The fulminators and their breath, specifically the double breath is the only thing in the list that can deal with high armour tanky models. E.g. Treelord ancient with 2+ ignore rend 1/Star Drake in the mirror/ the new mawcrusher build that ignores rend 1.

 

So for the way I play I can't not have two, they are just consistent. My opponents are normally scared to death of them too!

 

Again this is just my experiences and the way I play them I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. 

Hope that helps?

 

I will get round to doing a full break down of how I play the list, I might suggest doing a podcast on it too.

 

Thanks

[Turragor]

25 minutes ago, Lez said:

Hey,

 

You could technically take tempestors in the place of the fulminators but it changes the dynamic of the list dramatically.

I feel the list becomes more defensive with tempestors making units -1 to hit. 

In my head you would have to play the Relictor more aggressive also to maximise your chance for the extra -1 to hit from the lightning storm.

 

It could work though it would depend on your playstyle? it also means the Drake needs to do even more heavy lifting in the list and sometimes he just can't cut it.

 

Celestant on dracoth could work, he can be pretty aggressive and is only a couple of wounds less than a unit of fulminators. Again the dynamic of list would change as you would need to lose a character for him to fit.

 

The fulminators work so well in my opinion due to the shooting resilience like you have mentioned.

In the current shooting meta the 1+ re rolling 1's when in range of the Drake for staunch defender is great. You don't have to worry about Any non mortal wound shooting! As most shooting out their is only rend 1.

They also work well because they can deal with things the Drake can't.

I generally setup a counter charge of fulminators after the stardrake charges and fights something. 

Normally the fulminators are 6" away so I can mortal wound the target before the Drake fights it, if it needs help the fulminators go in on usually on my chance for the double turn. This allows me to 6"shoot fight then if I get the turn do the double mortal wound breath before the enemy can hit me back.

 

The fulminators and their breath, specifically the double breath is the only thing in the list that can deal with high armour tanky models. E.g. Treelord ancient with 2+ ignore rend 1/Star Drake in the mirror/ the new mawcrusher build that ignores rend 1.

 

So for the way I play I can't not have two, they are just consistent. My opponents are normally scared to death of them too!

 

Again this is just my experiences and the way I play them I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. 

Hope that helps?

 

I will get round to doing a full break down of how I play the list, I might suggest doing a podcast on it too.

 

Thanks

This is super helpful yes, I see how you're using the dracoths now. I'd need to replicate their shock troop role or figure out another way to take out the high armour targets that the rest of the army can't really deal with.

I do play more defensively usually that's true. If I follow through and stick to my style I'd take 2 x relictors and 2 x tempestors and spread 3 x -1s or a -2 and a -1 on the most dangerous attacking units. It could mean I've almost no punch ofc.

Perhaps I can try 2 fulminators and an LCoD (with lightning hammer). It's not quite the same MW punch but I think I can get a few more MWs elsewhere. Perhaps some longstrikes which might also mean I can drop a venator to make room for the LCoD.

Alternatively I can buy and paint 2 more dracoths! That probably won't be in time for my next local tournament though.

Maybe:

Lord-Celestant On Stardrake (560) - General - Command Trait : Staunch Defender  - Stormbound Blade - Artefact :  Mirrorshield  - Stardrake Trait : Thunderlord
Lord-Celestant On Dracoth (220) - Lightning Hammer & Thundershield - Dracoth Trait : Keen-clawed
Lord-Relictor (80) - Prayer : Lightning Chariot
Lord-Castellant (100)
Units
5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows - 1 x  Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows - 1 x  Shockbolt Bows
5 x Liberators (100) -Warhammer & Shield - 1 x  Grandhammers
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (160) with the potential new horde meta in mind...
2 x Fulminators (240)

It's very ranged. Weak to anything closing the distance - though in those matchups I'd probably deploy defensively around the large anchor that is the stardrake with Staunch Defender.

[Sangfroid]

@Lez shush up about the Mawkrusha already 

[kozokus]

@Lez

Thanks for the answer Can't wait for your Tactica/primer/podcast. (and gg for adding a grudge in chronicles of skypirates)

[Carnelian]

Is there a good Stormcast list that doesn't use judicators (or vanguard because I don't have a Lord Aquillor to make them battleline)? 

I ask because I really like the liberators models and dislike the judicator models (just my taste) but not sure the best way to build an army around them.

3 units of liberators for battleline doesn't seem like a great base for an army in terms of gameplay compared to the firepower of judicators but I'd love to know if someone has any good ideas for 3 x liberators lists! 

[RocketMan]

hi everyone

what do you suggest against a 1000pts army of tzeentch? i imagine skyfure and/or greater daemon.

GHB2017.

i was thinking on bringing the stardrake...

[kozokus]

13 minutes ago, Carnelian said:

Is there a good Stormcast list that doesn't use judicators (or vanguard because I don't have a Lord Aquillor to make them battleline)? 

I ask because I really like the liberators models and dislike the judicator models (just my taste) but not sure the best way to build an army around them.

3 units of liberators for battleline doesn't seem like a great base for an army in terms of gameplay compared to the firepower of judicators but I'd love to know if someone has any good ideas for 3 x liberators lists! 

Liberators have only one real weakness : the horribly large base. This is basically you will never see a huge horde of liberators unless fielded with something that grand them teleportation (aka Vanguard Wing). Because they only have range 1" on weapons and only 5" move, they are very hard to maneuver over 10 members and don't hit hard enough individually.

This is why Juds are good, because they fulfill your battleline tax while having an impact on the game at any range. With Liberators, you are condemned to take them by 5/10 and camp your objectives.

That beeing said, Libs are cheap and marginaly hard to remove unbuffed.

If the rule of cool is here, you should tell us what models you like/dislike Prosecutors, paladins, dracoths, etc.

 

If you like the Liberator model that much, you can consider going crazy on liberators and field the maximum unit possible   90 Liberators is 1560 points and leaves room for a LCoD and a bunch of lightning chariot prayers :). Some armies concede on such amount of wounds, after all you wll play with 240 more points than your opponent ^^.

 

[Requizen]

7 hours ago, Lez said:

Hey,

 

You could technically take tempestors in the place of the fulminators but it changes the dynamic of the list dramatically.

I feel the list becomes more defensive with tempestors making units -1 to hit. 

In my head you would have to play the Relictor more aggressive also to maximise your chance for the extra -1 to hit from the lightning storm.

 

It could work though it would depend on your playstyle? it also means the Drake needs to do even more heavy lifting in the list and sometimes he just can't cut it.

 

Celestant on dracoth could work, he can be pretty aggressive and is only a couple of wounds less than a unit of fulminators. Again the dynamic of list would change as you would need to lose a character for him to fit.

 

The fulminators work so well in my opinion due to the shooting resilience like you have mentioned.

In the current shooting meta the 1+ re rolling 1's when in range of the Drake for staunch defender is great. You don't have to worry about Any non mortal wound shooting! As most shooting out their is only rend 1.

They also work well because they can deal with things the Drake can't.

I generally setup a counter charge of fulminators after the stardrake charges and fights something. 

Normally the fulminators are 6" away so I can mortal wound the target before the Drake fights it, if it needs help the fulminators go in on usually on my chance for the double turn. This allows me to 6"shoot fight then if I get the turn do the double mortal wound breath before the enemy can hit me back.

 

The fulminators and their breath, specifically the double breath is the only thing in the list that can deal with high armour tanky models. E.g. Treelord ancient with 2+ ignore rend 1/Star Drake in the mirror/ the new mawcrusher build that ignores rend 1.

 

So for the way I play I can't not have two, they are just consistent. My opponents are normally scared to death of them too!

 

Again this is just my experiences and the way I play them I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. 

Hope that helps?

 

I will get round to doing a full break down of how I play the list, I might suggest doing a podcast on it too.

 

Thanks

Awesome writeup! Amusing that everyone is talking about #hordemeta and you're rocking a list with less than 30 models. Stardrake is quite good at clearing hordes, though, and Fulminators on the charge will cut down lots of models as well. A couple questions about the list:

1) How do you deal with MW heavy enemies? Tzeentch in particular can potentially put out lots of magic damage in a single phase, and Skryre lists with Stormfiends dropping in could potentially wreck this small, elite army. Not to mention Bloodletter mobs that can potentially do lots of MWs in combat if they get rolling. Do you focus on using Scions of the Storm, or do you just take your licks and hope to survive the first wave?

2) What trait for the Stardrake is choice? Keen Clawed seems like the best all arounder, but Thunderlord might be nice for clearing out hordes.

3) How do you deal with blobs on Total Conquest, Battle for the Pass, and Scorched Earth? Short of tabling opponents (which I suppose you can do fairly reliably), horde armies would have a distinct advantage over your style of list, from what I can see.

 

Thanks for chatting! Love this type of tactica.

[Carnelian]

1 hour ago, kozokus said:

Liberators have only one real weakness : the horribly large base. This is basically you will never see a huge horde of liberators unless fielded with something that grand them teleportation (aka Vanguard Wing). Because they only have range 1" on weapons and only 5" move, they are very hard to maneuver over 10 members and don't hit hard enough individually.

This is why Juds are good, because they fulfill your battleline tax while having an impact on the game at any range. With Liberators, you are condemned to take them by 5/10 and camp your objectives.

That beeing said, Libs are cheap and marginaly hard to remove unbuffed.

If the rule of cool is here, you should tell us what models you like/dislike Prosecutors, paladins, dracoths, etc.

 

If you like the Liberator model that much, you can consider going crazy on liberators and field the maximum unit possible   90 Liberators is 1560 points and leaves room for a LCoD and a bunch of lightning chariot prayers :). Some armies concede on such amount of wounds, after all you wll play with 240 more points than your opponent ^^.

 

That's a crazy cool idea but sounds like a pain to play with. I'm cool with having other models that aren't liberators but just want my battleline to be liberators only.

I'm thinking 1 x 10 man and 2 x 5 man squads for my battleline and wonder if anyone else uses similar 

[Burf]

50 minutes ago, Carnelian said:

That's a crazy cool idea but sounds like a pain to play with. I'm cool with having other models that aren't liberators but just want my battleline to be liberators only.

I'm thinking 1 x 10 man and 2 x 5 man squads for my battleline and wonder if anyone else uses similar 

I'm gonna be frank and tell that no, no one uses a setup like that in competitive matched play. There are some very interesting narrative armies that use liberators but the truth is that unless you commit to liberators, bringing more than 1 5 man squad is always going to be subpar compared to just how good judicators are.

[ledha]

Against tzeentch at 1000 pts, bring fulminators with à knight azyros using staunch défender and lanterne of thé tempest and laugh at the face of those skyfires

[newsun]

Can someone confirm that if I declare Allegiance: SCE, I get to take 400pts of allies and if I declare Allegiance: Order I can take anything from Order? I get my book tomorrow.

I was hoping to make this list with Allegiance Order and hoping it's legal:

Lord Aquilor

LCoD

Knight Venator

Annointed on Frost Phoenix

2x5 Liberators

1x5 Vangaurd-Hunters

1x3 Palladors

1x3 Prosecutors Hammertime

1x6 Prosecutors Javs (could be split depends on playtesting)

1x3 Raptors xbows

40 Skinks

2k/2k

[Carnelian]

7 hours ago, Burf said:

I'm gonna be frank and tell that no, no one uses a setup like that in competitive matched play. There are some very interesting narrative armies that use liberators but the truth is that unless you commit to liberators, bringing more than 1 5 man squad is always going to be subpar compared to just how good judicators are.

I guess it's time to commit!

[RocketMan]

6 hours ago, ledha said:

Against tzeentch at 1000 pts, bring fulminators with à knight azyros using staunch défender and lanterne of thé tempest and laugh at the face of those skyfires

why? they are still strong in cac and can do mortal on 6 with the shaman near

[ledha]

6 hours ago, RocketMan said:

why? they are still strong in cac and can do mortal on 6 with the shaman near

They will need to reroll those 5 and 6 because of the lantern of the tempest, making it not likely to happen. And while skyfires Can hold their own in mêlée, They won't do anything about à 2+ reroll 1 save. If you are a d*** you can bring some tempestors for even more bigass save and the -1 to hit

[AverageBoss]

20 minutes ago, ledha said:

They will need to reroll those 5 and 6 because of the lantern of the tempest, making it not likely to happen. And while skyfires Can hold their own in mêlée, They won't do anything about à 2+ reroll 1 save. If you are a d*** you can bring some tempestors for even more bigass save and the -1 to hit

Actually, they would only reroll 6s. All rerolls are resolved before all modifiers.

But Relictors, Tempestors, and putting a Mirrorshield on your general are good against Skyfires (and well most things really). Kill their Shaman with some pinpoint strikes (SC are really good at this between Judicators, Raptors, and Rain of Stars), the Skyfires become far less potent. Shaman is also fairly easy to kill, lacking a high armor save or ability to heal himself.

It should be noted that Skyfires in a GA:C army are quite a bit more dangerous for us than DoT Skyfires. One of their traits gives all units within 10" of the general +1 to hit things with keyword order. Paired with a Shaman, in a GA"C army with said trait, Skyfires will hit us on 2+, and inflict mortal wounds on 4+. There are a couple ways they can get reroll 1s to hit as well.

[ledha]

45 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Actually, they would only reroll 6s. All rerolls are resolved before all modifiers.

But Relictors, Tempestors, and putting a Mirrorshield on your general are good against Skyfires (and well most things really). Kill their Shaman with some pinpoint strikes (SC are really good at this between Judicators, Raptors, and Rain of Stars), the Skyfires become far less potent. Shaman is also fairly easy to kill, lacking a high armor save or ability to heal himself.

It should be noted that Skyfires in a GA:C army are quite a bit more dangerous for us than DoT Skyfires. One of their traits gives all units within 10" of the general +1 to hit things with keyword order. Paired with a Shaman, in a GA"C army with said trait, Skyfires will hit us on 2+, and inflict mortal wounds on 4+. There are a couple ways they can get reroll 1s to hit as well.

Lantern of the tempest seems to apply after modifiers. It's writed 6 OR MORE, not 6. If it was before modifiers, forcing to reroll 6 OR MORE would make no sense. because you can't reach more than 6 without modifiers in the first place.

[Carnelian]

1 hour ago, ledha said:

Lantern of the tempest seems to apply after modifiers. It's writed 6 OR MORE, not 6. If it was before modifiers, forcing to reroll 6 OR MORE would make no sense. because you can't reach more than 6 without modifiers in the first place.

This should clear this issue up: 

[ledha]

Yeah, i know the "reroll before modifier", but it seems illogical with the writing of lantern of the tempest or all the items/abilities forcing to reroll 6 or more. Look like GW rules writer still need to talk to each other then...

[Nico]

There's literally another FAQ answer on the Lantern - it's 6s only. See page 7. Good news as it is already extremely powerful.