Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[Burf]

2 hours ago, Veillotron said:

You mean 10+ LCoD or Dracoths? If Lightning echelon is the 2 fulminators and 2 tempestors that can charge twice through people and share the fulminator shooting buff on the Tempestors - yeah that one is pretty sweet. As much as I would like to invest in a warscroll for the lower drop and additional artefact, I just can't justify it, as my list is I still feel like I could/should have another unit...

 

10 dracoths+ 1 LoCD (Vandus and regular dracoths are actually straight up compatible kits so you can do quite a few dracoths for cheap)

And about the lightning eschelon, go back and read it again. It's not +1 save against shooting, it's +1 save.

A lightning eschelon+Staunch defender, mirrorshield Stardrake is 1700ish points of 'actually, kurnoth's suck tho, should be like 20pts for a unit of 6'.

That's my list for any 2500pt tournies. 

[DanielFM]

4 hours ago, Veillotron said:

I'm with you. Actually, in combat, the only difference between a Fulminator that has not charged and a Tempestor is the -1 rend on the glaive vs. sword.

The -1 to hit make the Tempestors even more resilient in combat (although they are still more prone to shooting).

I'm almost tempted to run out to the GW store right now to buy another box of Dracothian guards to build a pair of Tempestors...

Nope, that's wrong. Fulminators wound on a 3+, Tempestors on a 4+.

 

[Veillotron]

15 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

Nope, that's wrong. Fulminators wound on a 3+, Tempestors on a 4+.

 

 

2 hours ago, Burf said:

And about the lightning eschelon, go back and read it again. It's not +1 save against shooting, it's +1 save.. 

Indeed, I am wrong on all fronts!!! Time to get back in my box

[Thor]

2 minutes ago, Veillotron said:

 

Indeed, I am wrong on all fronts!!! Time to get back in my box

Your point is still valid. 

[Veillotron]

2 minutes ago, Thor said:

Your point is still valid. 

cheers for the support - I also think so, and still want some Tempestors - my comment was more about getting basic stats wrong 

[Thor]

Just now, Veillotron said:

cheers for the support - I also think so, and still want some Tempestors - my comment was more about getting basic stats wrong 

Ive been playing with dracothian guard for awhile now with all the iterations. (Even 8 desolators)

After the initial charge fulminators and tempestors behave in a very similar manner. But the tempestors ability gives you some form of control. And reach. Its very balanced.

Concussors generally punch a little harder. Their stun ability is insane against horde units. But at 280 their a niche counter unit. If hordes is the new meta i think they will be good.

 

 

[Turragor]

Tempestors are amazing. Probably the best dracoth unit before (I rarely swapped the magnetised hands on mine) and they're better now.

This is from anecdotal experience of me owning 2 painted dracothian guard mind you. If I had 4 or 6 I am not sure what I'd decide. The ability to put 3 x -1 to hit debuffs on 3 enemy units (I mean, if there's no debate about stacking which is too OP) is great.

 

[Burf]

3 minutes ago, Thor said:

Ive been playing with dracothian guard for awhile now with all the iterations. (Even 8 desolators)

After the initial charge fulminators and tempestors behave in a very similar manner. But the tempestors ability gives you some form of control. And reach. Its very balanced.

Concussors generally punch a little harder. Their stun ability is insane against horde units. But at 280 their a niche counter unit. If hordes is the new meta i think they will be good.

 

 

Agreed, this is one of the major advantages of tempestors too. Horde units tend to rely on horde buffs+weight of dice. Killing them out of an upper level buff+ the -1 to hit gets a lot of units hitting on 5s or 6s.

[Snoe]

New warscroll for the character from Blight war box. Nice heroehunter. Wonder what changes when it's the generic Knight-Zephyros...

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[Burf]

Just now, Snoe said:

New warscroll for the character from Blight war box. Nice heroehunter. Wonder what changes when it's the generic Knight-Zephyros...

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Hopefully not the fact that it's female. That said, not being able to take relics is gonna hurt her. Strife ender or +rend would be amazing.

[Snoe]

Hopefully not the fact that it's female. That said, not being able to take relics is gonna hurt her. Strife ender or +rend would be amazing.

I think it's the Dubble damage against heroes that will disappear on the normal unit and that is not so easy to replace with relics...

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[Thor]

7 minutes ago, Snoe said:

New warscroll for the character from Blight war box. Nice heroehunter. Wonder what changes when it's the generic Knight-Zephyros...

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I think people will try her out, Realize she cant act or kill the turn she arrives, and then your opponent murders her. 

[CountryMou3e]

I know this is a typo.... however stardrake spam would be lol


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[Thor]

15 minutes ago, Snoe said:

New warscroll for the character from Blight war box. Nice heroehunter. Wonder what changes when it's the generic Knight-Zephyros...

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Also. when she lands and your opponent decides to throw.. say a squad at liberators at her. it would take her 3-4rounds on average to get through them. 

MEH. 

[Burf]

1 hour ago, CountryMou3e said:

I know this is a typo.... however stardrake spam would be lol


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I take this as absolute gospel and will immediately go buy 4 Stardrakes and use this screenshot to justify my list at tournaments.

[Erdemo86]

Hmm no one talks about skyborne slayers? I think it will be the most efficient way to play stormcast on a tournament. Very powerfull alpha strike potential. What do you guys think about this battalion?also decimators will be better know because of that hordes.

[CountryMou3e]

Hmm no one talks about skyborne slayers? I think it will be the most efficient way to play stormcast on a tournament. Very powerfull alpha strike potential. What do you guys think about this battalion?

Quite a lot of discussion was had about slayers a few pages back. It's great on paper, but 240 pts is a lot to consider. It doesn't leave much left , would be awesome to see work though!

With the rise of hordes inbound, there won't be much table space left to effectively place the whole battalion for maximum efficiency [emoji16]. I could be wrong though!


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[Requizen]

Skyborne will probably be fine. It went up 80 points, and my version of the list had a unit of Prosecutors. Drop them and it still fits.

In the app, Aetherstrike is still 80 points. Assuming that's a bug.

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[DanielFM]

15 hours ago, BURF1 said:

Well, firstly, the DRACOTH is still quite good in combat, especially if you get that 6 to wound, secondly the short range breath attack does a solid 3-6 mortal wounds on average between 2 dracoths(just those 2 together put it's average damage to around the same as a unit of palladors) they're very survivable, being dracoth riders and the -1 to hit buff is amazing. At 240 fulminators were absolutely better, at 220 I would take a unit of tempestors for every 4 fulminators. Concussors are still garbo, desolators aren't worth thinking about.

As this point was brought, I thought about running some numbers for Tempestors and Palladors.

(Assuming 4+ save for convenience)

Shooting at 9 inches (so they can use all their regular weapons) wins at 1,88 average wounds vs 1,33.

In close combat (excluding Lightning Surge as it's done in the shooting phase) Palladors win at 5,45 vs 4,66 average wounds.

Only when you include Lightning Surge (average wounds 2,67 at 6",  5,33 at 3" or less) do Tempestors become significantly better. That's a big if, as Tempestors will have to charge from 6" or less (to be able to shoot before charging) or they won't get the chance to do these wounds until the next round. By that time, Palladors could have teleported away in the hero phase and charged another target, so they look a lot better for a hit-n-run approach vs a more protracted approach of the Tempestors.

If we take into account the differences (more wounds vs better save, far better mobility vs -1 to hit debuff, harassing potential at 18" vs devastating shooting up close) it looks like both units are valid choices with quite different strengths and play styles. Maybe they could be considered even complementary units.

All of this strictly from crunch, no game experience with them whatsoever

[AverageBoss]

After much thought and discussion, for the points I am thinking I will get far more out of a unit of Tempestors than the Palladors I had. This brings my list to:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Heroes
Lord-Celestant On Dracoth (220)
- General
- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Dracoth Trait: Keen-clawed
Lord-Castellant (100)
Lord-Relictor (80)
Knight-Azyros (80)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows

Units
10 x Paladin Protectors (400)
- 4x Starsoul Maces
4 x Fulminators (480)
2 x Tempestors (220)

Total: 2000/2000

Though I might make the Azyros into a 2nd Relictor as a last minute swap. And I will most likely play it at my local tourney next week. Well I will either play that or this:
 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Heroes
Lord-Celestant On Stardrake (560)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Stardrake Trait: Keen-clawed
Drakesworn Templar (500)
- Storm Lance
Drakesworn Templar (500)
- Storm Lance
Lord-Castellant (100)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
1 x Gryph-Hound (40)

Total: 2000/2000
 

Could be fun.

[Burf]

10 hours ago, DanielFM said:

As this point was brought, I thought about running some numbers for Tempestors and Palladors.

(Assuming 4+ save for convenience)

Shooting at 9 inches (so they can use all their regular weapons) wins at 1,88 average wounds vs 1,33.

In close combat (excluding Lightning Surge as it's done in the shooting phase) Palladors win at 5,45 vs 4,66 average wounds.

Only when you include Lightning Surge (average wounds 2,67 at 6",  5,33 at 3" or less) do Tempestors become significantly better. That's a big if, as Tempestors will have to charge from 6" or less (to be able to shoot before charging) or they won't get the chance to do these wounds until the next round. By that time, Palladors could have teleported away in the hero phase and charged another target, so they look a lot better for a hit-n-run approach vs a more protracted approach of the Tempestors.

If we take into account the differences (more wounds vs better save, far better mobility vs -1 to hit debuff, harassing potential at 18" vs devastating shooting up close) it looks like both units are valid choices with quite different strengths and play styles. Maybe they could be considered even complementary units.

All of this strictly from crunch, no game experience with them whatsoever

What's teleporting the palladors away? Ride the winds aetheric is movement phase and stops charges.

As for the dracoth shooting attack, 16" will usually get you into range of something. Having used them quite a bit in the past, it's not hard getting the shot off.

I will say I 100% agree that they're both useful units that fulfill different roles. Tempestors are great for dracoth armies because they're a very straightforward debuff unit with a solid damage output and reliability. They really exemplify the 'you need overlapping buffs to be as good as I am on an island' nature of Stormcasts.

Palladors, on the other hand really help to exploit the synergistic nature of the vanguard chamber and the almost dizzying mobility available there.

If you're taking a normal Stormcast list and 220pts left over you should take a LoCD. But if you already have one Tempestors are next in line.

If you're taking Vanguard strike, lord Aquilor, Vanguard hunters, or any of the other really tricksy lists palladors will serve you better.

[DanielFM]

1 hour ago, Burf said:

What's teleporting the palladors away? Ride the winds aetheric is movement phase and stops charges.

As for the dracoth shooting attack, 16" will usually get you into range of something. Having used them quite a bit in the past, it's not hard getting the shot off.

I will say I 100% agree that they're both useful units that fulfill different roles. Tempestors are great for dracoth armies because they're a very straightforward debuff unit with a solid damage output and reliability. They really exemplify the 'you need overlapping buffs to be as good as I am on an island' nature of Stormcasts.

Palladors, on the other hand really help to exploit the synergistic nature of the vanguard chamber and the almost dizzying mobility available there.

If you're taking a normal Stormcast list and 220pts left over you should take a LoCD. But if you already have one Tempestors are next in line.

If you're taking Vanguard strike, lord Aquilor, Vanguard hunters, or any of the other really tricksy lists palladors will serve you better.

Oh, I meant Lord Aquilor's command ability. The latest FAQ clarified that being removed from combat is not considered a retreat.

[Turragor]

With the new matched play missions requiring units of 20 or more (unless no one has 20 or more then its most models) within 6 inches to hold objectives, how were fellow SCE players thinking of changing their lists?

I don't think that any of these missions actually require 20 if there's no contesting at the location. So you can cap your own board side and get some points to start with.

I've had a quick think and I don't see myself taking a unit of 30 liberators to contest objectives in the enemy area.

I think I'll focus on taking big units of 20 below 20 (so horde killing) and having more of my own units in the vicinity (so I get the model count).

Not decided though. I quite like the idea of a big block of liberators.

 

[CountryMou3e]

With the new matched play missions requiring units of 20 or more (unless no one has 20 or more then its most models) within 6 inches to hold objectives, how were fellow SCE players thinking of changing their lists?
I don't think that any of these missions actually require 20 if there's no contesting at the location. So you can cap your own board side and get some points to start with.
I've had a quick think and I don't see myself taking a unit of 30 liberators to contest objectives in the enemy area.
I think I'll focus on taking big units of 20 below 20 (so horde killing) and having more of my own units in the vicinity (so I get the model count).
Not decided though. I quite like the idea of a big block of liberators.
 

Isn't it more that units of 20 can steal objectives? Just make sure you bring big units under 20 with ranged attacks [emoji16]


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[Kakoshka]

13 minutes ago, Turragor said:

With the new matched play missions requiring units of 20 or more (unless no one has 20 or more then its most models) within 6 inches to hold objectives, how were fellow SCE players thinking of changing their lists?

I don't think that any of these missions actually require 20 if there's no contesting at the location. So you can cap your own board side and get some points to start with.

I've had a quick think and I don't see myself taking a unit of 30 liberators to contest objectives in the enemy area.

I think I'll focus on taking big units of 20 below 20 (so horde killing) and having more of my own units in the vicinity (so I get the model count).

Not decided though. I quite like the idea of a big block of liberators.

 

I'm also wondering what tech people are considering to help with hordes.

At the moment my strategy is still just try kill the most things. 

 

On another note I had a few games this weekend against Tzeentch with an Aetherstrike-hurricum-lord aquilor list I posted a bit back. Got destroyed. 

Skyfires plus the changehost absolutely hose my unit of long strikes before I'm even in the game.

Thinking in that match up I have to deploy everything in the celestial realm and hope everything I need comes in?

Cant shave enough drops off the list to guarantee first time and can't handle the 40 odd mortal wounds I took between the skyfires and spells turn 1.