Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[Earthtremor]

celestial vindicators is 180... so 400 points for the battalions now... doable but at too high a cost imho, particularly with the bonuses for CV being very situational or not really working (celestial superchange range).

[BURF1]

3 minutes ago, Goddin said:

300 pts of battalions to keep a 1 drop army, avoid rolling for charges, and keep mobility for paladins is not a big sacrifice in my opinion.

 

But that assumes Hammerstrike is 220 and Celestial Vindicators is still 80.  Any news as to whether Celestial Vindicators (or the other big stormhost battalions) had a point change?

Celestial vindicators is 180 i believe(I have the points saved on a different computer but TGA took them down); ALL batallions went up 100ish so it's 400pts or Nearly a Drakesworn templar or 2 units of paladins. Plus the 40 points for spear prosecutors if you ran those before, means you could take a drakesworn templar instead.

[Veillotron]

12 hours ago, wayniac said:

With Blightwar I'm thinking of adjusting my concept of Stormcast so I can include the Vanguard units (which I did like at first when they came out, I briefly considered doing a mostly Vanguard army actually).  Nerfing the battalions means that I'm no longer looking at Hammerstrike Force, so I'm thinking of doing a dual list with a Vanguard contingent and a Strike Chamber contingent so I can use both what I have and what I'll get in Blightwar (likely without Blacktalon unless she's really good as I prefer my own characters, also I'm doing Hallowed Knights not Hammers of Sigmar).  But I no longer think that any battalion is worth taking with such big point adjustments.

IIRC Blightwar will have:

Naeve Blacktalon (Vanguard Hero, unknown stats)

5x Vanguard Hunters

3x Vanguard Palladors

3x Vanguard Raptors incl. 3x Aetherwings

If you are going Vanguard, you should seriously consider having a Lord-Aquilor as your general - you do pay a premium for the Vanguard units mobility, and the LA's command ability really makes it worth the price. Being able to redeploy units throughout the game is great, and you can even take units out of combat and not have it treated as retreating (meaning you can shoot and charge elsewhere). 

I really, really, really like the Vanguard wing - the models are beautiful and detailed (the LA and Palladors are amongst my all-time bests), and the playing rules are so fun...

[Goddin]

14 hours ago, Earthtremor said:

celestial vindicators is 180... so 400 points for the battalions now... doable but at too high a cost imho, particularly with the bonuses for CV being very situational or not really working (celestial superchange range).

Thanks for answering.  That does seem unfortunate, and probably ends celsestial vindicators for me.  I only took that battalion to make the army 1 drop... 

This means my strategy will need to be much more flexible as (usually giving away) first turn will no longer be set.

[Requizen]

Hammerstrike is effectively dead in my book. Battalion increase plus Prosecutor increase makes it a huge point sink that loses almost instantly to bubblewrap

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[Marc Wilson]

I wonder just how many pure SCE armies we'll see over the next year. From what I can discern a number of the battleplans favour massive regiments or at least give advantages for 20+ models. SCE have always had a problem getting boots on the ground so will probably need to compensate this with allies. I see people moving away from differentials coming with battalions to differentials coming from allies. Skinks, no doubt, plus others. It's easy to see Relictor + Lightning Chariot as a +1 choice, then the worlds's your allied oyster. There's a lot of Order stuff you can drop 9" from your opponent which can potentially wreak havoc.

[CountryMou3e]

I wonder just how many pure SCE armies we'll see over the next year. From what I can discern a number of the battleplans favour massive regiments or at least give advantages for 20+ models. SCE have always had a problem getting boots on the ground so will probably need to compensate this with allies. I see people moving away from differentials coming with battalions to differentials coming from allies. Skinks, no doubt, plus others. It's easy to see Relictor + Lightning Chariot as a +1 choice, then the worlds's your allied oyster. There's a lot of Order stuff you can drop 9" from your opponent which can potentially wreak havoc.

Fyreslayers cough

Tunnelling vulkites cough [emoji16]


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[Nubgan]

1 hour ago, Marc Wilson said:

I wonder just how many pure SCE armies we'll see over the next year. From what I can discern a number of the battleplans favour massive regiments or at least give advantages for 20+ models. SCE have always had a problem getting boots on the ground so will probably need to compensate this with allies. I see people moving away from differentials coming with battalions to differentials coming from allies. Skinks, no doubt, plus others. It's easy to see Relictor + Lightning Chariot as a +1 choice, then the worlds's your allied oyster. There's a lot of Order stuff you can drop 9" from your opponent which can potentially wreak havoc.

Yeah its certainly not practical to stick a block of 20 liberators in one unit in your army, not just because of the points cost, but because of the foot print and wasted attacks. The gutting thing is I love to have an aesthetic, so Skinks for me are out of the question. I always fancied sticking some devoted of sigmar in with them, so maybe I will stick 2x 20 Flagelants (or even 1 of 40 seen as I would likely see a horde discound) and a Warrior Priest (for purely its buffing of the flagelants), that came to 400pts in GHB1 and would let me overcome this issue with the battleplans needing a unit of 20 to hold a unit AND still look atleast decent aesthetically.

[Goddin]

2 hours ago, Requizen said:

Hammerstrike is effectively dead in my book. Battalion increase plus Prosecutor increase makes it a huge point sink that loses almost instantly to bubblewrap

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I think you go too far.  Consider this list:

 

Protectors x5

Retributors x 10

Prosecutors x 3

Hammerstrike (at 220)

LCoD

Tempestors x 2

Lord Celestant on Foot or Lord Castellant.

Liberators x5

Judicators x5

Judicators x5

Lord Relictor  (w/lightning chariot)

2k Points on the dot.

 

Mobile LCoD and Tempestors to get out and get objectives.  Hammerstrike to kill the enemy's biggest threat and to give paladins mobility.

Libs and judicators to hold the home objective.  Relictor to send the lord on foot to boost the hammerstrike or castellant to stay home with the libs/judicators/use the 6+ shooting standard.

 

Still seems viable to me.  Just loses the one drop flavor options you had before.

[Memnoch]

A question from a brand new Stormcast player. I have got the Stormcast half of the starter set and the Start Collecting set, both assembled, and the Hammerstrike Brethren unassembled. As I'm not comfortable enough yet in this hobby to do conversions, there are not really any options regarding the 3 Liberators, 2 Retributors and Knight-Questor, but there are options for the 3 Prosecutors. I already have 3 Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (no Grandhammer) and 3 Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (Prime with Stormsurge Trident).

Based on what I've read on these forums the consensus is that the Javelin Prosecutors are probably the best choice, but I'm wondering if I should turn my 3 man unit into a 6 man unit by building 3 normal Prosecutors, or build another unit of 2 Prosecutors and 1 Prosecutor Prime.  So what would your advice be?

[Thor]

Looking at the previewed points for skinks, i'm in love. 200points for 40 skinks that's value right there,  bring in 80 skinks fufills your 400point limit for allies and fufills 2 battlelines slots. 

based on rumors about a battleplan requiring 20plus models to capture i think it's safe to say many competetive lists will bring lots of skinks, for stormcast that is. 

[CountryMou3e]

Looking at the previewed points for skinks, i'm in love. 200points for 40 skinks that's value right there,  bring in 80 skinks fufills your 400point limit for allies and fufills 2 battlelines slots. 
based on rumors about a battleplan requiring 20plus models to capture i think it's safe to say many competetive lists will bring lots of skinks, for stormcast that is. 

Allies don't count towards battle lines etc however I love the idea of that many skinks !!


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[Thor]

10 minutes ago, CountryMou3e said:

Allies don't count towards battle lines etc however I love the idea of that many skinks !!


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Hmm. Are you sure ? I couldent find anything. Do you know if leaders arent allowed either ? 

[CountryMou3e]

Hmm. Are you sure ? I couldent find anything. Do you know if leaders arent allowed either ? 

It was confirm during the live stream about order the other day. Detailed within this summary aswell. I'm very sure

https://aosshorts.com/ghb2017-warhammer-live-twitch-order-day/#more-343




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[Nubgan]

13 minutes ago, Thor said:

Looking at the previewed points for skinks, i'm in love. 200points for 40 skinks that's value right there,  bring in 80 skinks fufills your 400point limit for allies and fufills 2 battlelines slots. 

based on rumors about a battleplan requiring 20plus models to capture i think it's safe to say many competetive lists will bring lots of skinks, for stormcast that is. 

See, I was wondering whether taking one of the Seraphon heroes in that 400pts is a decent idea with a blob of skinks too and the Saurus Astrolith Bearer seems like a decent unit to stick with Skinks, +1 to hit on even 40 skinks would really improve there shooting attacks, maybe stick a Skink Priest in too to get a juicy -1 to hit them and some unbind too?

[CountryMou3e]

See, I was wondering whether taking one of the Seraphon heroes in that 400pts is a decent idea with a blob of skinks too and the Saurus Astrolith Bearer seems like a decent unit to stick with Skinks, +1 to hit on even 40 skinks would really improve there shooting attacks, maybe stick a Skink Priest in too to get a juicy -1 to hit them and some unbind too?

Which skink gives the -1 rend ? I could only find the +1 to hit


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[Nubgan]

The Starpriest gives -1 to hit with one of its abilities, not rend.

SUMMON STARLIGHT The Starpriest gestures with an open hand and calls the light of a distant star to the battlefield. Summon Starlight has a casting value of 6. If it is successfully cast, pick a unit within 20" to be bathed in starlight. If the unit is Seraphon, subtract 1 from the hit rolls of any attacks that target it until your next hero phase. Otherwise, subtract 1 from the hit rolls of any attacks that it makes until your next hero phase.

To me that would make that unit a nightmare to remove from an objective.

[Siorra]

9 hours ago, Memnoch said:

A question from a brand new Stormcast player. I have got the Stormcast half of the starter set and the Start Collecting set, both assembled, and the Hammerstrike Brethren unassembled. As I'm not comfortable enough yet in this hobby to do conversions, there are not really any options regarding the 3 Liberators, 2 Retributors and Knight-Questor, but there are options for the 3 Prosecutors. I already have 3 Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (no Grandhammer) and 3 Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (Prime with Stormsurge Trident).

Based on what I've read on these forums the consensus is that the Javelin Prosecutors are probably the best choice, but I'm wondering if I should turn my 3 man unit into a 6 man unit by building 3 normal Prosecutors, or build another unit of 2 Prosecutors and 1 Prosecutor Prime.  So what would your advice be?

 

Javelin's were better, but as of Saturday they cost the same as the hammers, so now I'm unsure. You'd get the most out of the models by building the unit of 6, that way you can have 2 models with the better weapons (Grandblade or Grandhammer), and could easily run it as 2 units of 3, both primes having the special weapons, or 1 unit as 6.

 

So personally, I would build your 3 from the starter set as Prosecutor's with hammers with 2 of them using special weapons, so you can have 2 max potential units of 3 of 1 unit of 6. Hope that made sense.

[DanielFM]

18 hours ago, Marc Wilson said:

I wonder just how many pure SCE armies we'll see over the next year. (...) I see people moving away from differentials coming with battalions to differentials coming from allies.

That's really sad. I want a cohesive, thematic force of Stormcast, not a mish-mash of visually clashing models to plug gaps into our army.

As the recently created meme says, welcome to Age of Skinkmar

 

1 hour ago, Siorra said:

 

Javelin's were better, but as of Saturday they cost the same as the hammers, so now I'm unsure.

It would be nice to try to come to a consensus. Special close combat weapons and 2 3+ 3+ basic attacks always seemed nice for a unit charging 3 dice pick 2 highest (really nice for charging out of Scions). They only seemed worse due to worse shooting and higher price.

 

On another note, do you think 3 man Longstrike units are worth it? I'm talking outside Aetherstrike. I could end up buying another box and I don't know if I should build 3 more or go for 3 Hurricanes. 

[GammaMage]

Wanting to put some Stormcast allies in my Darkling Coven army. I have wizards and lots of infantry. What I lack is a melee hero, and some good ranged units. For the melee hero I want to go with a Lord-Veritant mostly for fluff reasons (if Sigmar is gonna send Stormcast to help a Darkling army, he's gonna make sure their leader has defense against mind-control).

Which leaves me the question of what ranged units to go with? I have 280 left of my 400 (240 if I play the Veritant bonded gryph-hound). That means if I go with  can only do a 5-man Judicator squad. Is that worth playing, or should I look at another option - 6 Prosecutors are an option, or some Vanguard-Raptors. Which would give me the most for my limited ally points?

[Memnoch]

9 hours ago, Siorra said:

 

Javelin's were better, but as of Saturday they cost the same as the hammers, so now I'm unsure. You'd get the most out of the models by building the unit of 6, that way you can have 2 models with the better weapons (Grandblade or Grandhammer), and could easily run it as 2 units of 3, both primes having the special weapons, or 1 unit as 6.

 

So personally, I would build your 3 from the starter set as Prosecutor's with hammers with 2 of them using special weapons, so you can have 2 max potential units of 3 of 1 unit of 6. Hope that made sense.

Thanks. This helps

[Requizen]

Generally speaking, ranged is always going to be better than melee, especially since you can still shoot into/out of combat. Getting 2 damage on the Javelins as well when they're further away makes it no contest in my book. 

MSU Hammer Prosecutors is pretty decent since you can get into melee extremely quickly and they're fairly fight-y, but we have enough melee components and the Javelins are one of the best ranged support options out there for 100 points.

[DanielFM]

What about Longstrikes in 3-man units? Are they worth it? They feel a bit too all-egs-in-one-basket at 360 for 6 in the same unit. I wondered if 3 Longstrikes + 3 Hurricanes would be better.

Also, it appears as the Lord Aquilor would be nice for keeping them safe. Or a Protector wall...

PS: Freeguild just got a clone of our Staunch Defender  come on, don't hand oír goodies like candy!

[kozokus]

NAAAAA! my Vanguard Wing just took an extra 160 point taxe. Can't use it in 1000 point games now.

That beeing said....

On 21/08/2017 at 3:24 AM, Thomas Lyons said:

Auroch,  you are dead on.  I think this will be one of the most scariest competitive lists out there (dead serious).  People just don't know how scary this is.  

The extra 10 members on liberators units took me by surprise. I really like that!

Lets imagine a Vanguard Wing where you want to maximise the numbers of libz and Judz, that is a 1660 point force in one drop, with enouth point left to add that 3rd battleline and a couple of heroes, maybe cut 5 judz to add more room.

After all, you may have the choice to make 600 point of army hitting at one time with +1/2 to hit (lets say 1/2 Celestant) with +1/2 armor( lets say castellan). Awwww sexy!

Still the lack of high rend/Mortal wounds is here but i have great hopes.

All in all : 

30 liberators 520

15 judicators 480

3X3 Prosecutors 300

Vanguard wing 200

1 Celestant 100

1 Castellan 100

1 Castellan/celestant 100

5 judicators 160

1960, points, throw a gryphound and call it a day. This is a 5-6 drop army in a world where monodrops are (almost) dead.

[PJetski]

Seems like our lord and saviour Aetherstrike is still going to be an effective list. Only a 100pt increase on the battalion - everything else seems intact.

I'm not sure where to trim the fat in that list, though. The core is 1620 (assuming 3x Longstrike, 1x Hurricane) which does not leave enough room for a Celestial Hurricanum or 2x support heroes + 2 gryph hounds + protectors. Figuring out how to spend the remaining 380 points will depend on the meta game. 

Relictor seems like an excellent all-around choice, giving you Lightning Storm for more Hit debuffs and Lightning Chariot for mobility.

If we expect a lot of shooting then you'll want a Castellant for Warding Lantern + LOTT and Protectors.

If you expect a lot of deep strike then you can cut a hero or the Protectors for 2x Gryph Hounds and/or more Liberators.

Protectors may not be an absolute necessity since we should see less Kurnoths/Skyfires, and the meta could shift to seeing more melee hordes. In that case you should bump your Liberators up to 10 and use the Castellant to give them a 2+r1 save (with Inspiring Presence they won't be going away any time soon).

Decisions, decisions...