Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[Thor]

Hmm. Interesting. I love that the drake and tempestors got reduced. 100 cost prosecutors is a little eh.

Kind of ruins the tempest lords.

Prime shouldave been dropped more then 20 points

The increased cost of battallions seems a little unfun. Doubt it will actually do much. Except nerf the multi batallion armies. Maybe a design choice to limit  1 drop armies ?

Enough whining. 

Cant wait to adapt to these changes ! Should be cool. Though it seems like a nerf to the classical stormcast lists. 

[CountryMou3e]

I wonder if there will be a couple of cool vanguard warscrolls in the new blight war set. Although I don't see anything new listed in the leaked battalion pts list


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[Snoe]

Anyone thinking of allies for SCA? Only thing we are missing is wizards so any favourites there? Hand of Gloryd LCoSD anyone? Or some Ironweld Arsenal warmachines, a cannon and gunmaster to take out really tough targets?

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[CountryMou3e]

Really like the idea of skyborne slayers. Here's a cheeky stardrake thrown in with relictor for healing/debuffs units and a Castellant for the +1 to save.

Celestant
Castellant
Relictor
LCoSD

5 judicators
5 judicators
5 liberators
5 liberators

5 decimators
5 protectors

Skyborne slayers

2000 pts (from new gh leaks)

It's a tough choice now whether SCE take a battalion, at least tougher choice for most other armies


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[Thomas Lyons]

10 hours ago, Auroch said:

Talking about vanguard wing.

Hard to avoid a unit able to TP on the table every turn

Auroch,  you are dead on.  I think this will be one of the most scariest competitive lists out there (dead serious).  People just don't know how scary this is.  

[bolderiz101]

On 8/20/2017 at 10:44 AM, Auroch said:

Did I talk about making sense ?

I just give the numbers, assume what you want.

 

do you know if the super formation cost include the batalion cost?

[BURF1]

10 hours ago, CountryMou3e said:

Have to disagree here, can just drop a hero and a few of the viable battalions should still see use. Like Requizen has said, losing a relictor to keep hero phase shooting and counter shooting when a unit dies is easily done.

However, stormcast shoot heavy lists are gunna find objectives scenarios even more difficult. Gunna stock up on hurricane crossbows and decimators/protectors.

I'd love to see paladins as battleline if....


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See, I've never been particularly impressed with the hammerstrike(paladins have been overrated since Warrior brotherhood) and while the aetherstrike was great and is still good, it's on the edge of prohibitively expensive and makes objective grabbing even harder than it was. 

 

As for the people getting hyped about vanguard wing? You're going to be disappointed. You can now take 30 of the second worst actual stormcast unit (birds and dogs don't count) for between 20 and 80pts MORE than you could today, unless you also do tempest lords or w/e then you have the honor of paying 120-180pts more. That said, it was a solid enough formation before and the point increase isn't huge but it's not suddenly competitive, especially when the prosecutor nerf eats up 3/4ths of the points gained on libbys.

[BURF1]

31 minutes ago, bolderiz101 said:

do you know if the super formation cost include the batalion cost?

There's no such thing as formations in sigmar. And you have to pay the stormhost cost+the battalion cost so all the stormhosts basically went up 200pts.

[Requizen]

11 hours ago, DrEmrys said:

Do you mind sharing your list? Thanks!

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Lord-Castellant
Knight-Venator
Knight-Azyros

Judicators x5
Judicators x5
Liberators x5

Aetherwings x3
Aetherwings x3
Gryph Hound
Gryph Hound
Protectors x5
Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrikes x9
Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricanes x3

Aetherstrike

2000/2000

 

Could potentially drop the Gryph Hounds to bring back the Relictor, but they're honestly super useful for fending of Skyre dropping into melee or just for zone control in general. 

[chord]

9 hours ago, Snoe said:

Anyone thinking of allies for SCA? Only thing we are missing is wizards so any favourites there? Hand of Gloryd LCoSD anyone? Or some Ironweld Arsenal warmachines, a cannon and gunmaster to take out really tough targets?

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loremaster is a great Wizard to take. 

[Burf]

42 minutes ago, chord said:

loremaster is a great Wizard to take. 

Loremaster+green battle wizard would be nuts for a unit of fulminators. Hitting on 3s rerolling, wounding on 2s rerolling, d6 damag on 5s...whooooeeee.

[Mune]

The loremaster affects 1 model, not 1 unit.

[CountryMou3e]

Am I allowed to hope that there's a surprise on the stormcast section that hasn't been leaked yet from the new generals handbook ??

 

At the very least, it should have the pts for the new hero ?

 

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[Burf]

2 hours ago, Mune said:

The loremaster affects 1 model, not 1 unit.

Awww, still, same combo on a LCoD and you could have someone suddenly wondering where their Glottkin went.

[DanielFM]

Hi, I'm new here. And I think I came at the wrong time

I guess the blow of the battalion tax has affected everyone. But I think Knights Excelsior will feel it even more. This battalion was the only incentive to field a heavy infantry, footslogging army. Without the rerolls, Paladins are too slow and fragile to be fielded en masse (not that the alternative, Hammerstrike, hasn't become overpriced, either).

Should I despair, throw one or two of the Paladin units to the bin (jk, Ebay would be more like it ) and go for a different style of army?

Or could the army work without the Battalions buffs? On the upside, it means +140 points to spend on units over the old list (more like 120 as Javelin Prosecutors got more expensive). Most of the buffs were pretty situational and expendable, but The Chain Unbroken felt so necessary and thematic...

[ledha]

Like you i played the same list. The cost increase mean i'll drop half of my judicator unit and a relictor. It could be worse

[wayniac]

With Blightwar I'm thinking of adjusting my concept of Stormcast so I can include the Vanguard units (which I did like at first when they came out, I briefly considered doing a mostly Vanguard army actually).  Nerfing the battalions means that I'm no longer looking at Hammerstrike Force, so I'm thinking of doing a dual list with a Vanguard contingent and a Strike Chamber contingent so I can use both what I have and what I'll get in Blightwar (likely without Blacktalon unless she's really good as I prefer my own characters, also I'm doing Hallowed Knights not Hammers of Sigmar).  But I no longer think that any battalion is worth taking with such big point adjustments.

IIRC Blightwar will have:

Naeve Blacktalon (Vanguard Hero, unknown stats)

5x Vanguard Hunters

3x Vanguard Palladors

3x Vanguard Raptors incl. 3x Aetherwings

[CountryMou3e]

With Blightwar I'm thinking of adjusting my concept of Stormcast so I can include the Vanguard units (which I did like at first when they came out, I briefly considered doing a mostly Vanguard army actually).  Nerfing the battalions means that I'm no longer looking at Hammerstrike Force, so I'm thinking of doing a dual list with a Vanguard contingent and a Strike Chamber contingent so I can use both what I have and what I'll get in Blightwar (likely without Blacktalon unless she's really good as I prefer my own characters, also I'm doing Hallowed Knights not Hammers of Sigmar).  But I no longer think that any battalion is worth taking with such big point adjustments. IIRC Blightwar will have:

Naeve Blacktalon (Vanguard Hero, unknown stats)

5x Vanguard Hunters

3x Vanguard Palladors

3x Vanguard Raptors incl. 3x Aetherwings

 

Vanguard Justicar is still worth the points imo . At 110 for +1 to wound rolls against already wounded units. It should work brilliantly with hurricane crossbows aswell as the longstrikes.

 

 

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[Kakoshka]

With a 2.5k tourney coming to Perth using GHB2 I'm looking at taking a mixed-up aetherstrike.

 

Lord-Aquilor

Mirror Shield

Staunch Defender

 

Knight-Venator

Knight Azyros

Celestial Battlemage on Hurricanum (may give this the second artifact depending on what Order gets)

Lord-Castellant

Lord-Relictor

 

5 Liberators

5 Liberators

5 Judicators

5 Judicators

 

3 Aetherwings

3 Aetherwings

9 Longstrikes

3 Hurricane Crossbows

Aetherstrike 

2500

 

Keen to try the Aquilor for the movement. Will be trying the relictor with both bless weapons and lightning chariot to see whats better. Im predicting a lot of models after massive regiments which makes manoeuvring the lightning chariot a bit hard.

Would love some protectors in the list but not sure where. Not sure what the castellant will be doing now there's no protectors. Maybe a battlemage would be better?

[Requizen]

23 hours ago, Snoe said:

Anyone thinking of allies for SCA? Only thing we are missing is wizards so any favourites there? Hand of Gloryd LCoSD anyone? Or some Ironweld Arsenal warmachines, a cannon and gunmaster to take out really tough targets?

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After more musing, allies are a great way to get things that we lack. Same as it always has been (or at least in 40k). What we lack and how we can supplement it:

1. Chaff. Our chaff are Liberators, which are pretty good but units a smidge too small to bubble wrap and a smidge too expensive to really not care about losing models. Not to mention slow, and speed is important if you want to blob up on objectives or wrap around/speedbump things.
   1. Skinks - Awesome choice. Falling back from combat, decent ranged attacks, cheap, fast. Covers all the bases. And BV10 means they almost never run away.
   2. Vulkite Berserkers - with the new prices, a very cheap unit that's pretty hard to shift (getting that beautiful 4+ extra save at large sizes) can basically tie up a whole section of the board and be a screen in front of your entire army. Decent but not amazing in combat, but a 330 point unit that stops anything from reaching your backline easily is good.
   3. Freeguild units - also cheap bodies. Shooting units are worse than ours, but they're more shots for the price and can give us the weight of fire to support our quality of fire. Melee units are a bit meh, but will cover more ground than Liberators for bubble wrapping purposes.
2. Big monsters. Stardrakes are expensive and essentially need a list built around them. While we have hard hitting units and tough, anvil units, occasionally having a big beastie that does a lot by itself can be a nice thing to plug and play.
   1. Griffon with General/Battlemage - either are good picks. The General is very self-sufficient, being killy, fast, and fairly durable without buffs or support. He can easily swing around and punch/stab backline that we would normally need expensive/unreliable teleports to get to. The Battlemage is a lesser choice, not as good as fighting or surviving, but still fast and can cast spells that we could not otherwise do. Reliable, ranged MWs is something we lack, so having a guy that can do it well isn't too bad.
   2. Bastiladon - a fantastic choice. Again, doesn't need any support, can just plop down somewhere, survive, and shoot targets of your choice. The shooting isn't super necessary in Stormcast, who have our own very good shooting, but it is extremely hard to kill and fights pretty darn well. Alternatively, take an Ark of Sotek on it and dare anyone to get close while running straight onto midfield points.
   3. Frostheart Phoenix - debuffs enemies, steals magic, has a 4+ extra save. Solid choice, not much more to say.
3. Wizards. We lack this, it's one of our defining features. Wizards are not necessary, but it is quite nice to have the extra MWs, buffs, and Unbinds that they can provide.
   1. Celestial Hurricanum - the obvious choice. Everyone wants to bring it, because it's so good. Spits out MWs, buffs hitting, isn't easy to kill, casts spells to boot. Stick it in your gunline and laugh as people just melt as they approach.
   2. Archmage on Dragon - also big and killy, it can use it's spell to rip the magic buffs off of a unit, letting you hit that unit harder now that it lost Mystic Shield. Unbinds twice, which is also great.
   3. Skink Starseer - Very good support unit. Can give your army rerolls, and his spell is generic and has both offensive and defensive options. Unlike Slann, their abilities don't only affect Seraphon, so it meshes well. 

In my opinion (and feel free to disagree), those are the bases that we can't cover ourselves. We have good shooting, good melee punch, good mobility. While you can bring in allies that are better at those things (artillery, for example, or cavalry), I think it's better to get synergistic units where you can, and use Allies to bring in things that we cannot do ourselves.

Seraphon seem to be our best mesh, tho Freeguild and other Mortals are pretty ok as well. Sylvaneth really want to be their own thing, and while Berserkers are cool, there isn't much else from Fyreslayers that work with us. Overlords and Dispossessed don't mesh all that well (though you might get some use out of Eindrinriggers for fast punching).

I'll probably pick up some Skink stuff and/or a Bastiladon, personally.

[CountryMou3e]

Great write up on options. I'm going to give a couple of variations with slayers a go. First will be 25 vulkites and a smiter - can tunnel for early objective or tunnel to bog down a threat. Second variation again i would tunnel with a smiter 15-20 auric for some character/monster sniping.

 

I'm loving the potentials with seraphon aswell, I think you're right they seem very promising. Only doubt I have is our allies haven't been confirmed yet. That page is still lost in the aether with no pirate able to share it with the world haha

 

 

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[Goddin]

Did the big battalions also get a point increase?  I'm thinking Celestial Vindicators.

The increase in Hammerstrike just has me change a LCOD to a Lord Castellant otherwise.  I lose a bit of mobility but not too much.  If I make it a relictor, hardly any at all.

 

 

[CountryMou3e]

Did the big battalions also get a point increase?  I'm thinking Celestial Vindicators.
The increase in Hammerstrike just has me change a LCOD to a Lord Castellant otherwise.  I lose a bit of mobility but not too much.  If I make it a relictor, hardly any at all.
 
 

I think this mindset will see players getting into a bit of bother. More then ever, stormcast are going to need models on the table. I'm not disputing that some battalions maybe ok but I have serious reservations. I'd rather make use of allies to cover stormcasts weaknesses then sink 200+ pts into a battalions. Just 'dropping a hero' isn't going to do any favours I don't think.

Ofcourse, I'm happy to eat my own words [emoji16]


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[BURF1]

2 hours ago, CountryMou3e said:

I think this mindset will see players getting into a bit of bother. More then ever, stormcast are going to need models on the table. I'm not disputing that some battalions maybe ok but I have serious reservations. I'd rather make use of allies to cover stormcasts weaknesses then sink 200+ pts into a battalions. Just 'dropping a hero' isn't going to do any favours I don't think.

Ofcourse, I'm happy to eat my own words


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Personally I think Dracoths as core were on of the best ways to run stormcasts before(the vanguard wing formation was really useful, same with min aetherstrike and min hammerstrike but I'm not so sure with how expensive it all is now.) And I think the changes to both the star drake and tempestors made them pretty much the best now, I also think that stormcast vanguard got a bit better since their formation didn't increase as much as other iirc. 

But yeah, Stormhosts are dead, any 200pts of allies would be better.  Aetherstrike, Hammerstrike, and a 30 lib...prosecutor+lib battalion(forgot the name) will be useful still but not as good as they were. In my opinion it'll be Dracoths, Vanguard and effective use of allies going forward.

[Goddin]

2 hours ago, CountryMou3e said:

I think this mindset will see players getting into a bit of bother. More then ever, stormcast are going to need models on the table. I'm not disputing that some battalions maybe ok but I have serious reservations. I'd rather make use of allies to cover stormcasts weaknesses then sink 200+ pts into a battalions. Just 'dropping a hero' isn't going to do any favours I don't think.

Ofcourse, I'm happy to eat my own words


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300 pts of battalions to keep a 1 drop army, avoid rolling for charges, and keep mobility for paladins is not a big sacrifice in my opinion.

 

But that assumes Hammerstrike is 220 and Celestial Vindicators is still 80.  Any news as to whether Celestial Vindicators (or the other big stormhost battalions) had a point change?