Requete Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Tiriom said: Not to point out the obvious but if you’re the type of player only concerned with matched play then yes the Soul Wars boxes aren’t necessarily the best option. However there are tons of ways to play AoS. I think conplaining about the great value you do indeed get with the entire box because it’s not min max with matched play is a little short sighted and unfair. They could easily offer complete units but then the box would just be more expensive which I guess you might want but from a business stand point I think they want to keep it around that price point. Sometimes it seems like many posters here assume that Matched Play is the only way to play or enjoy the game. I'm sure Matched Play is fine but I have way more interest in Open and Narrative play. Just because the starter box doesn't have some units to full Matched spec doesn't mean it's not a good deal or a good place for someone to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 38 minutes ago, Requete said: Sometimes it seems like many posters here assume that Matched Play is the only way to play or enjoy the game. I'm sure Matched Play is fine but I have way more interest in Open and Narrative play. Just because the starter box doesn't have some units to full Matched spec doesn't mean it's not a good deal or a good place for someone to start. The majority of people play matched and for people who do it's a pretty clear cashgrab. It's not like they made the box and then were suddenly surprised that it didn't have all the bits and pieces needed for matched play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 14 minutes ago, Bellfree said: The majority of people play matched and for people who do it's a pretty clear cashgrab. It's not like they made the box and then were suddenly surprised that it didn't have all the bits and pieces needed for matched play. Right, they're making a cash grab by giving us a bunch of models at an enormous discount. The Arcanum, Ballista and Incantor together are worth more than the $80 the Stormcast half of the box costs. The only unit you don't get a full minimum unit of are the Evocators and honestly... Unless there's a sweet battalion for them then die hard matched players aren't going to use them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentdeathz Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, Richelieu said: Right, they're making a cash grab by giving us a bunch of models at an enormous discount. The Arcanum, Ballista and Incantor together are worth more than the $80 the Stormcast half of the box costs. The only unit you don't get a full minimum unit of are the Evocators and honestly... Unless there's a sweet battalion for them then die hard matched players aren't going to use them anyway. In fairness, you can't offer something at an 'enormous discount' if you're also setting the price. What makes them 'discounted' other than the fact that they set a higher price otherwise? It's somewhat like a furniture shop with constant sales... is it REALLY a discount? These kits aren't the full kits, and they are snap fit etc, so even everything else aside they wouldn't be priced the same. I don't think they are exactly giving anyone a huge gift with a 'discount' but I also wouldn't say it's worth bearing any grudge over them making a ploy to earn more money either. That tends to be the goal of a business. And as far as consumer slights go, I think this is fairly minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiriom Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 21 minutes ago, silentdeathz said: In fairness, you can't offer something at an 'enormous discount' if you're also setting the price. What makes them 'discounted' other than the fact that they set a higher price otherwise? It's somewhat like a furniture shop with constant sales... is it REALLY a discount? These kits aren't the full kits, and they are snap fit etc, so even everything else aside they wouldn't be priced the same. I don't think they are exactly giving anyone a huge gift with a 'discount' but I also wouldn't say it's worth bearing any grudge over them making a ploy to earn more money either. That tends to be the goal of a business. And as far as consumer slights go, I think this is fairly minor. Customers have a choice. It’s not some evil trick attempt by GW. Most everyone here knows all units in soul wars will be released with full options at a later date. Those full options come at a higher cost but will allow full control and customization. What’s fair to say is that if I only cared for matched play with min maxed units then I should probably wait for those options to present themselves instead of complaining about the boxed set. Or buy only the models I need from the box second hand as there are likely to be tons on the market . Respectfully I’ll bow out of any further comments on this topic as I feel we are in the wrong place for this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirPug Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Since Evocators can buff redeemer units, do any unit outside liberators have this keyword? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystycalchemy Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, SirPug said: Since Evocators can buff redeemer units, do any unit outside liberators have this keyword? Sequitors on their full warscrolls. Which is redundant since they're sacrosanct. Redeemer is specifically the line troop conclave for stormhosts, and since Hunters fall under the "fast-mover" Angelos conclave, its just Liberators and Sequitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raz0Cyph Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Hey guys, I seen the leak for the GHB point but I didn't see the aetherstrike bataillon, they erased it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystycalchemy Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 27 minutes ago, Raz0Cyph said: Hey guys, I seen the leak for the GHB point but I didn't see the aetherstrike bataillon, they erased it ? Yeah, it's highly likely since they either A) didn't want two battalions for different armies to share a name (Kharadron have a different Aetherstrike Force), or B) They just removed it along with all the other Vanguard-themed battalions to focus on new Sacrosanct battalions in the battletome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raz0Cyph Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, mystycalchemy said: Yeah, it's highly likely since they either A) didn't want two battalions for different armies to share a name (Kharadron have a different Aetherstrike Force), or B) They just removed it along with all the other Vanguard-themed battalions to focus on new Sacrosanct battalions in the battletome. Woaw hard.. long to wait.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 57 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said: Yeah, it's highly likely since they either A) didn't want two battalions for different armies to share a name (Kharadron have a different Aetherstrike Force), or B) They just removed it along with all the other Vanguard-themed battalions to focus on new Sacrosanct battalions in the battletome. most of the vanguard-bataillion survived, but some had a point increase... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Z. Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, Freejack02 said: Get two off Ebay - it's the easiest solution. Lots of them floating around from people parting out Starter Boxes. About hour before you wrote that i ordered team of 3 (prime + 2 paladins) But thank you for sugestion Just now, Tiriom said: Are you sure they are unavailable? They still are on the site for me in the U.S. Regardless lots of places should still have stock. I got a box the other day on eBay, probably some on amazon as well. Also various retail locations should still have them. I guess UK is a little different than US market. My favourite online shops don't have those boxes for a week or so. Maybe a local shops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 The mixed chamber battalions were removed ...but they kept the Warrior Brotherhood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martijn de Bruin Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 How does everyone feel about the Celestant-Prime not getting a points reduction? On the other hand, there is a possibility that with the upcoming new battletome he might get changed to be usefull and be worth his points cost. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, Martijn de Bruin said: How does everyone feel about the Celestant-Prime not getting a points reduction? On the other hand, there is a possibility that with the upcoming new battletome he might get changed to be usefull and be worth his points cost. ? I'm torn. With Look out Sir he might last longer on the battlefield. But unless he gets a warscroll change still overpriced for a hero that has to do nothing to be effective. maybe if they upped his wounds or increased the number of starting attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martijn de Bruin Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 37 minutes ago, chord said: I'm torn. With Look out Sir he might last longer on the battlefield. But unless he gets a warscroll change still overpriced for a hero that has to do nothing to be effective. maybe if they upped his wounds or increased the number of starting attacks. I`m hoping they change the way he adds to his attack characteristic, like a bonus number of attacks equal to the battle round and also make him a bit tougher. That way I can actually play this awesome model from the start of the battle. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikosan Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, chord said: I'm torn. With Look out Sir he might last longer on the battlefield. But unless he gets a warscroll change still overpriced for a hero that has to do nothing to be effective. maybe if they upped his wounds or increased the number of starting attacks. I would be completely satisfied with 12 wounds and 4 attacks to start. I mean, look at the Eidolon for Deepkin....either version. I have said it before, I know my gaming buds are sick of hearing it, but what are the rules writers and playtesters seeing in the current version for the points cost? I would actually be really interested in hearing a rationale. On another note, played my first 2nd ed game yesterday and can verify that the Ballista is pretty dang good. It may not last at its current points cost very long but I hope they don't go crazy upping the points. It is still only damage 1 and most effective within 18" which puts it in the threat range of the opposing army. I was unimpressed with the Incantor outside of the voidstorm scroll. Their spell is cast on 7 which is more than quite a few of the endless spells and in most cases the 1 mw is meh despite the range and -1 to charge the same. The effectiveness of both is really situational. Still, you are going to want wizards and the scroll is great, but I didn't miss slotting in points for a scroll caddy from by-gone editions. Access to endless spells mitigates that issue for me somewhat. Evocators will be a great choice I think. Movement 5 and new command ability to run 6" with the heraldor ability will let them close in, and unlike regular paladins, they can cast a spell and attempt to dispel a spell so they have some utility outside of wrecking face. Only question for me is 1 unit of 10 or 2 of 5. All this said, the unit of these guys on new Dracolines may outshine the foot version, so who knows. Either way I had a blast and learned a lot about command point management(at one point I actually had a surplus of CP's and nothing useful to do with them due to the characters I took ) and endless spells which are good, cheap on points, and cheap to cast(mostly) so I expect them to be popping up every game. All around fun times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khadral Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 In the soul wars starter set I noticed matched play values for the understrengh units in the box. Any news about that? Are they invalidated by gh18 values? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 28 minutes ago, Mikosan said: I would be completely satisfied with 12 wounds and 4 attacks to start. I mean, look at the Eidolon for Deepkin....either version. I have said it before, I know my gaming buds are sick of hearing it, but what are the rules writers and playtesters seeing in the current version for the points cost? I would actually be really interested in hearing a rationale. At 12 wounds he would probably need a monster table. Which I'd be ok with I guess. the CP could start with a high number of attacks and go down as he gets weaker. The rules writers are trying to get you to buy a new army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, chord said: At 12 wounds he would probably need a monster table. Which I'd be ok with I guess. the CP could start with a high number of attacks and go down as he gets weaker. The rules writers are trying to get you to buy a new army. Not necessarily - the Eidolons are 12 wounds but don't have monster tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, PJetski said: Not necessarily - the Eidolons are 12 wounds but don't have monster tables. Good point, I didn't realize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukes4life Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Btw guys any news on the evocator spell in matched? Will it be castable by several units? Mostly depends on wether magic counts as abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, nukes4life said: Btw guys any news on the evocator spell in matched? Will it be castable by several units? Mostly depends on wether magic counts as abilities That's a spell, why would it be casted by several units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 The core rules say you can only try to cast a spell once, but the core rules also say that when warscroll abilities (explicitly) contradict the core rules then the warscroll ability takes precedence. Multiple Evocators should be able to cast Empower multiple times per turn, similar to how some units can run and charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freejack02 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 5 hours ago, Martijn de Bruin said: How does everyone feel about the Celestant-Prime not getting a points reduction? On the other hand, there is a possibility that with the upcoming new battletome he might get changed to be usefull and be worth his points cost. ? I'd be pleased with 10 wounds, a 5+ mortal save, and 1 additional attack to start (but he needs defensive buffs most of all). Playing him as a very expensive assassin just feels wrong, but I think that's what he's best suited to atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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