Requizen Posted June 15, 2018 Author Share Posted June 15, 2018 Meh, I think Castigators are fine. Its 80 for 3, so good for filling smaller point gaps and MSU Scions shenanigans. They're not a wow unit, but they will show up just based on points alone. Didn't realize the Ordinator had to be the General to use his Ability. Makes my planning a bit different. Still hands out the +1 to hit, but not quite as good as free shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarii Orientalis Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 1 hour ago, kuroyume said: Sequitors require that you use a Lord-Arcanum general to be battleline. That means no Ballista + Ordinator shenanigans. Liberators will still have their role. Which is why I hope Consummate Commander remains as it is now in the new SCE battletome. If it remains unchanged, I think it can become a good alternative for Staunch Defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentdeathz Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Requizen said: Meh, I think Castigators are fine. Its 80 for 3, so good for filling smaller point gaps and MSU Scions shenanigans. They're not a wow unit, but they will show up just based on points alone. Didn't realize the Ordinator had to be the General to use his Ability. Makes my planning a bit different. Still hands out the +1 to hit, but not quite as good as free shooting. True, although 80 isn't that small a number. Especially when 50pts is a cmd point and so on. I don't think anyone is calling them super bad, just not that exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, Requizen said: Didn't realize the Ordinator had to be the General to use his Ability. Makes my planning a bit different. Still hands out the +1 to hit, but not quite as good as free shooting His point hike to 140 makes him pretty unappealing in light of that. I agree that Castigators will have a place in some lists, which is really all a unit can ask for. I'm going to be aiming for a really dumb elite list personally. Would love to have a star Drake, celestant prime and a number of Lords arcanum in one list. It's too bad we don't have a cavalry battle line choice. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 1 hour ago, kuroyume said: Sequitors require that you use a Lord-Arcanum general to be battleline. That means no Ballista + Ordinator shenanigans. Liberators will still have their role. That's not that big of a loss honestly. The Ballista are pretty meh unless you can get the 18" profile(at which point they become terrifying). Double shooting one ballista for the cost of a CP is okay, but I worry about investing too much into the ballistas. Ballista Damage 36" with Ordinator and no LoS 4+ save = 1.62 Ballista Damage 36" without Ordinator(or with Ord and LoS) 4+ save= 1.3 Ballista Damage 18" with Ordinator 4+ save= 3.88 Judicator Damage unbuffed no LoS 4+ save= 2.49 Longstrike Damage unbuffed, no LoS 4+ save= 2.7ish probably closer to 3 with Mortal wounds on 6s Basically, Ballista do work at 18" but are going to be worse on average than the other shooting units outside of that range, which makes the Ordinator's command ability less valuable. You'll likely only get one round where you can use his CA on a ballista's 18" profile before your opponent has to kill it. It might be a better use of CP and the general slot to take the Lord Arcanum and just use the ballista as a relatively cheap ranged support wing(3 ballista and an ordinator do almost as much damage as 6 longstrikes at range and almost double inside 18" for a relatively small investment). That said, you could save up CP and double shoot all 4 ballista(assuming you can do that) to lay waste to huge chunk of your opponents army at once(again within 18"). Idk, we'll see. I'll probably still end up using Judicators, I really don't like Liberators very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 2 hours ago, amysrevenge said: Here's a random thought I had (starts in fluff but leads to gaming). As the troubles with reforging continue, suddenly now unmonitored by the Sacrosanct Chamber, do you think Sigmar might be forced to lower his standards and field lesser troops? Game-wise, I'm thinking of smaller 32 mm or 25mm base Stormcast-lite, in 30-40-ish model units. Unlikely, besides the issues associated with Stormcast getting even MORE units(which at this point...we should be done for a while) you're looking at disrupting the visual profile of the army, damaging the 'gameplay fantasy' of magic supersoldiers and giving stormcasts gameplay tools that would be incredibly hard to balance(cheap hordes to cover that weakness of the army). It's more hassle than it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Ballistas are worth considering for the low cost and extra range alone. Ordinator makes them better, sure, but plopping down a 100 point model with the capacity to bop targets half the board away is worthwhile either way. The Hero just makes them more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsun Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Word, their long range is great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Requizen said: Ballistas are worth considering for the low cost and extra range alone. Ordinator makes them better, sure, but plopping down a 100 point model with the capacity to bop targets half the board away is worthwhile either way. The Hero just makes them more reliable. It kinda...doesn't have the capacity to bop targets half the board away though. Without a Lord Ordinator a Ballista does 1.3 damage to a 4+ save and .97 to characters with LoS and a 4+ save. That means that a Ballista won't kill a unit of liberators or a relictor in 5 turns if it doesn't close down to 18". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trayanee Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Maybe I missed it, but do we know point values for Prosecutors? Thanks a lot in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Bellfree said: It kinda...doesn't have the capacity to bop targets half the board away though. Without a Lord Ordinator a Ballista does 1.3 damage to a 4+ save and .97 to characters with LoS and a 4+ save. That means that a Ballista won't kill a unit of liberators or a relictor in 5 turns if it doesn't close down to 18". That's not much different from the output of most ranged units, with a large discrepancy if you roll hot. And as you said, it mulches if they get close to stop it. We'll see, but I'm feeling it. 30 minutes ago, Trayanee said: Maybe I missed it, but do we know point values for Prosecutors? Thanks a lot in advance. They weren't on the page we saw, but we'll all know tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradipo322 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 ?sequitors FULL warscrolls from GW site, now we know about swords and "lanterns". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystycalchemy Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 48 minutes ago, Bradipo322 said: ?sequitors FULL warscrolls from GW site, now we know about swords and "lanterns". The Cache seems flavorful, and nice to have even if it is only 6". The swords seem... really bad comparatively. I guess if you have evocators to let them reroll those 4+ wound rolls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freejack02 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said: The Cache seems flavorful, and nice to have even if it is only 6". The swords seem... really bad comparatively. I guess if you have evocators to let them reroll those 4+ wound rolls... The swords do more damage on average than the mauls do (1.0 compared to 0.89) - unless I'm missing something neither has rend and both have shields, so swords seem to be superior overall. Even with a -1 wound debuff they come out equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielFM Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 9 hours ago, Jupiter said: My biggest issue is that their war scroll does not represent how they look, they are launching holy grenades (hallleeeluuuuyaahhh) for goodness sake. How can they have the same (but shorter range) attack as Judicators. Yep, you don't make a super elite magic-bomb-shooting unit to have it a cheaper, more underwhelming version of Judicators. They are viable rules wise but incredibly disappointing theme-wise. I will use them because the models look great and they come in the box, but I'm not really excited about them. Maybe the reveal of a special weapon will make them sound better. 7 hours ago, Requizen said: Ballistas are worth considering for the low cost and extra range alone. Ordinator makes them better, sure, but plopping down a 100 point model with the capacity to bop targets half the board away is worthwhile either way. The Hero just makes them more reliable. Yeah, people dismiss range too fast. Over 24", the Ballista is 100% better, just like that. That's 12 inches of superiority. Then, at or under 18" it's also better again (for the points). Only between 18 and 24 are Judicators better. You can also take into account when heroes are so far from you, they are usually not protected by near units. It's very easy that your opponent will forget about having them in range of LoS because they are out of harm. Even if it happens only for a turn, that gives the Balista an advantage. 1 hour ago, Bradipo322 said: ?sequitors FULL warscrolls from GW site, now we know about swords and "lanterns". Well, that Cache is flavourful but not really game impacting. It makes you sacrifice an extra attack on a two handed maul. If I eventually field it, it will be due to the really cool female model seen before, not by the effect itself. It's nice that it's not a no brainer, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadanga Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 I wouldn't write off the Castigators so soon, there is a lot of synergies you cant get in Judicators. Buffed by evocators and with the Arcanums command ability they will tear through pretty much anything, reliably. Also for 160 points you get 6 model, which is a bigger footprint and more wounds. We still havn't seen the last 3 Lord-Arcanums (Foot, Dracoline, Space Goat) command abilities, which might favor Castigators further. As a side note, I noticed in one of the leak-pictures that there is also points for: Lord-Exorcist 100 Knight-Zephyros 100 XXX XXX, Magistrate of Hammerhal 360 (This one is really blurry, a lot of guesswork on the name apart from Hammerhal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namelessone81 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Do we know the unit size of the Sequitors for pitched battle ? (i am lost with so many information) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadanga Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 12 minutes ago, Namelessone81 said: Do we know the unit size of the Sequitors for pitched battle ? (i am lost with so many information) 5/20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyTheKing Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Freejack02 said: The swords do more damage on average than the mauls do (1.0 compared to 0.89) - unless I'm missing something neither has rend and both have shields, so swords seem to be superior overall. Even with a -1 wound debuff they come out equal. He's right, doing the math, blades always come out on top in terms of damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielFM Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, JonnyTheKing said: He's right, doing the math, blades always come out on top in terms of damage Yeah. Look-wise, maul mop the floor with sword version for me, though. I will sacrifice that small damage margin willingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried VII Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 What I also see is that you can get 2 greatmaces for every 5 models instead of 1 for every 3 models. Combined with the fact that you still get the free upgrade on the champion you can have a unit of 10 Sequitors with 5 great maces for a total of 11 "3+ 3+ -1 rend Dam2" attacks making them quite killy and easy to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erdemo86 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Siegfried VII said: What I also see is that you can get 2 greatmaces for every 5 models instead of 1 for every 3 models. Combined with the fact that you still get the free upgrade on the champion you can have a unit of 10 Sequitors with 5 great maces for a total of 11 "3+ 3+ -1 rend Dam2" attacks making them quite killy and easy to use. Or 2 units of 5. so you have 6 Greatmaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried VII Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 41 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said: Or 2 units of 5. so you have 6 Greatmaces. Ha ha I like the way you think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Seems silly to make the swords just straight better than the Maces... but it's not by a lot so meh. The Lantern seems cool but I think having a Greatmace will almost always be better. 42 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said: Or 2 units of 5. so you have 6 Greatmaces. I like this sort of list building game. MSU gives more weapons, but one big unit has its advantages too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 One big unit can be buffed by a single unit of Evocators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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