Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[amysrevenge]

35 minutes ago, Primes said:

Edit: You could also play one 10-Man Unit and one 5-Man Unit without the need for conversions: One prime with greatweapon, three regular guys with greatweapons and five regular guys with standard weapons + One prime with greatweapon, one regular guy with greatweapon and three regular guys with standard weapons.

You're still doing one conversion, albeit a simpler one.  The bolded bit is only 9 dudes, not 10.  You need to turn one of the Prime with Shield guys into a Regular with Shield guy.  Much easier to do than the other way around.  (Leaves you with one spare Prime with Shield out of the 16 models.)

[kuroyume]

1 hour ago, EMMachine said:

I also think that Stormhosts will work the same way as "Temples of Khaine" or "The Enclaves" with the new Battletome because on first glance I didn't saw Pitched Battle Profiles for Stormhost Battalions like "Celestial Vindicator Warrior  Chamber" etc.

That's huge. Pretty much all I want from the new Battletome.

[Freejack02]

1 hour ago, EMMachine said:

Concussors, Desolators -20 Points

Makes me wonder if Fulminators are going up to 260 to meet them - otherwise they are still the preferred unit. I think Fulminators/Concussors should be equal cost (240 or 260), and possibly Tempestors/Desolators equal as well (220). 

[christophe]

5 hours ago, PJetski said:

 

Staunch Defender is objectively too powerful, and it's not a good ability for the entire army to be balanced around.

I wish nothing was auto-take in AoS...

[PUFNSTUF]

I’m looking for some pre aos 2 purchase advise so I can build some stuff before I pick up the new items. I’m looking to enter the world of aos and while i liked the idea of running 2 maw krushas and boars for an army ultimately the choice of units available to stormcast and the new sacrosanct chamber means I will collect sotrmcast. Are there any safe buys to get to assemble before the new edition drops? I do want to have a more smaller elite army so something like fulminations and a celestant on stardrake appeal to me. Also two of the new ballista I plan to include in a list. Would these be safe buys? Anything else I should pick up? I’m looking forward to the new sacrosanct mounted riders too when those eventually drop. I do plan on playing competitively.

[boombyeyeah]

From the big second edition thread

"Here are some 2.0 rumors/leaks that have come my way: 

• At the end of each turn, you will lose as many models as it takes to return that unit to coherency.  "

 

I see our Stardrake becoming quite a tricky killer ?

[Paul_Veyne]

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 8:57 AM, DanielFM said:

They need to have their warscroll reworked from the ground up. How can they be so expensive when Dire Wolves are only 1 less wound, have an armor save and you get 5 for 60? Warning cry isn't worth that many points.

I don't know how many points you say Warning cry is worth but it won our doubles team a game on Sunday. It's pretty good at slowing up units and the 9" movement it excellent.

[EMMachine]

8 minutes ago, boombyeyeah said:

From the big second edition thread

"Here are some 2.0 rumors/leaks that have come my way: 

• At the end of each turn, you will lose as many models as it takes to return that unit to coherency.  "

 

I see our Stardrake becoming quite a tricky killer ?

You mean, because of the Eating Ability?

One thing that becomes clear is, if it's true. Piling In get's more tactical because, having only one model holding coherency can cause lots of damage if this one model got removed. It's a heavy hit against conga units.

[GeneralZero]

2 hours ago, EMMachine said:

From the big second edition thread

"Here are some 2.0 rumors/leaks that have come my way: 

• At the end of each turn, you will lose as many models as it takes to return that unit to coherency.  "

 

those looooooong lines of miniatures were so dumb on the battlefield. Now, units are more or less forced to gather a bit, looking closer to a real unit of warriors

[stato]

2 hours ago, EMMachine said:

You mean, because of the Eating Ability?

One thing that becomes clear is, if it's true. Piling In get's more tactical because, having only one model holding coherency can cause lots of damage if this one model got removed. It's a heavy hit against conga units.

How many units in the game can select models to remove? 1 or 2 maybe, I dont see it as that significant really.

[mikethefish]

3 minutes ago, stato said:

How many units in the game can select models to remove? 1 or 2 maybe, I dont see it as that significant really.

That's not the point.  As I understand it, "Conga Line units" were ones that could stretch out to claim multiple objectives.  Players could remove models from the middle of the unit, because the penalties of being out of formation were not very severe, letting the player still claim multiple objectives, even though his unit would be bisected in two.  

This new rule eliminates that problem, because if a player pulled casualties from the middle, then one of the groups sitting on an objective would instantly die, because that would be the only way to put the stretched out unit back into coherency

[EMMachine]

24 minutes ago, stato said:

How many units in the game can select models to remove? 1 or 2 maybe, I dont see it as that significant really.

I actually know 3 for sure. (Stardrake, Morathi and the Aleguzzler Gargants/Chaos Gargants).

But that wasn't the point I meant with "more tactical" even this is the easiest way to get the unit split.

The point is that while in the old edition you can split the unit by removing models and the only restriction was that you can't move if you can't get back in coherency (for example removing normal models so you don't lose the banner bearer, musician, champion or special weapon). Now in the worst case, you have to remove them if you don't want to lose a sigificant part of the unit.

17 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

That's not the point.  As I understand it, "Conga Line units" were ones that could stretch out to claim multiple objectives.  Players could remove models from the middle of the unit, because the penalties of being out of formation were not very severe, letting the player still claim multiple objectives, even though his unit would be bisected in two.  

This new rule eliminates that problem, because if a player pulled casualties from the middle, then one of the groups sitting on an objective would instantly die, because that would be the only way to put the stretched out unit back into coherency

Not only that, in some cases it was used to get multiple buffs from character bubbles too (until the new rules mostly used "wholy within")

 

Edit:

I mean, let's look at this blog entry about Zoning & Area Denial and how in the example the units are 1 model chains.

 

[stato]

People are still going to run long chains of models (unless they are facing a stardrake or something with an ability to pick models). Sure there is now a requirement to never break coherency but ive never seen it done to an extreme level before personally. I think generally coherency has been broken where players take the odd rear ranker or link models out to let them leave 1 or 2 more models in combat.  The rule will obviously impact very that tactical screening where you'd previously have removed every other model to keep charging units from starting their charges that bit further back, but now that just means you pick models from either end of your line to remove rather than a scatter approach. I certainly see this rule (if it comes, still not seen it and i asked a shop guy who had the book in his hand) as an improvement for the game, but I dont think a lot of people were actually gaming the system before as much as it is theorized on the forums.

[Sulfurious]

One thing it will do though is make people pay really close attention to model removal.  I'll bet there'll be stories about how Billy Bob had to remove half of his unit in the battleshock phase because he was careless when removing models. 

[ledha]

12 hours ago, Chrisdanish said:

I don't know how many points you say Warning cry is worth but it won our doubles team a game on Sunday. It's pretty good at slowing up units and the 9" movement it excellent.

one/two lone gryph-hound for warning cry are awesome.

But a whole unit of them ? meh. They are so fragile and do so little damage that they are useless in their actual state

[Paul_Veyne]

Yeah, I only took him to bulk out the points. I think in the future he might have been a command point instead.

Never know, they might be awesome in the new edition. Have 6 of them as single models coming down with Scicions, one or two might make the charge and tie up a shooting unit or two for a couple of turns. I hope they are awesome as I think they are great looking models and I haven't painted up the other 5!

[sigmar is scottish]

Hey guys looking for a little advice

I know this might be premature as we don't know the full extent of how the sacrosanct chamber models are going to play or even points cost but I was wondering in your opinion what might need added to the start collecting box.

I'm hoping to trade my nighthaunt half off for the stromcast equivalent so that should at lease give me a decent sized force to start with.
I think a lord ordinator to boost the artillery might be a good purchase as well.

FYI I'm a total Aos Noob.

[DanielFM]

2 hours ago, Chrisdanish said:

Yeah, I only took him to bulk out the points. I think in the future he might have been a command point instead.

Never know, they might be awesome in the new edition. Have 6 of them as single models coming down with Scicions, one or two might make the charge and tie up a shooting unit or two for a couple of turns. I hope they are awesome as I think they are great looking models and I haven't painted up the other 5!

3 wounds no save will tie nothing for a couple of turns. Even a shooting unit can do that in a shooting phase+cc phase without breaking a sweat. They don't seem great at that role.

[Paul_Veyne]

Sorry @DanielFM my bad. I didn't make myself very clear. If it has to shoot a single grump hound then it ain't shooting your hero or valuable unit. Next turn stick another one in ... then another. I wouldn't expect a hound to hang around for long at all.

Anyways, just an idea of how they could be used with the new rules. It would be a shame to see them not fielded as they are fab models. We will have to wait and see if there is any points changes or warscroll amendments 

[silentdeathz]

3 hours ago, sigmar is scottish said:

Hey guys looking for a little advice

I know this might be premature as we don't know the full extent of how the sacrosanct chamber models are going to play or even points cost but I was wondering in your opinion what might need added to the start collecting box.

I'm hoping to trade my nighthaunt half off for the stromcast equivalent so that should at lease give me a decent sized force to start with.
I think a lord ordinator to boost the artillery might be a good purchase as well.

FYI I'm a total Aos Noob.

Will be hard to say right now for a few reasons.

1) We don't know all the warscrolls

2) AoS 2.0

3) The new Stormcast Battletome

4) GHB18 - Points changes

 

I would say a Castellant is always a safe choice, but it isn't certain they won't change the lantern (although I doubt they will).

Judicators were another 'safe' buy, but again things might change.  I'd just hold off and see how things turn out if it were me.

[DanielFM]

19 minutes ago, silentdeathz said:

Will be hard to say right now for a few reasons.

1) We don't know all the warscrolls

2) AoS 2.0

3) The new Stormcast Battletome

4) GHB18 - Points changes

 

I would say a Castellant is always a safe choice, but it isn't certain they won't change the lantern (although I doubt they will).

Judicators were another 'safe' buy, but again things might change.  I'd just hold off and see how things turn out if it were me.

Yeah, for example the Celestar Ballista has been confirmed at 100 points. If Judicators remain 160 points, they seem completely redundant now besides counting towards battleline.

[silentdeathz]

7 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

Yeah, for example the Celestar Ballista has been confirmed at 100 points. If Judicators remain 160 points, they seem completely redundant now besides counting towards battleline.

Definitely. And if the Ballista takes up the ranged core, then the new liberators might be much more valuable in the battleline - and thus push Judicators even further out.

[chord]

15 hours ago, ledha said:

one/two lone gryph-hound for warning cry are awesome.

But a whole unit of them ? meh. They are so fragile and do so little damage that they are useless in their actual state

Are they the best unit out there?  No probably not, but viewing things through just combat can lead to overlooking units.  A unit of them now when positioned correctly can extend that warning cry ability further then before.  Additionally they are pretty fast for a stormcast unit (sadly).  So they can grab a late game objective since you're opponent has overlooked them.

 

[ledha]

Just now, chord said:

Are they the best unit out there?  No probably not, but viewing things through just combat can lead to overlooking units.  A unit of them now when positioned correctly can extend that warning cry ability further then before.  Additionally they are pretty fast for a stormcast unit (sadly).  So they can grab a late game objective since you're opponent has overlooked them.

 

but why taking a whole unit of 5 for "extending" the ability when you can take 2 of them in separate units and cover more terrain (cause don't need to stick in formation), while being much more manoeuvrable ?

In their actual state, Gryph-hound is the ultimate model that is better alone than in units.

[chord]

2 minutes ago, ledha said:

but why taking a whole unit of 5 for "extending" the ability when you can take 2 of them in separate units and cover more terrain (cause don't need to stick in formation), while being much more manoeuvrable ?

In their actual state, Gryph-hound is the ultimate model that is better alone than in units.

Except for cost.  So what GW is doing is forcing a min unit size of greater than zero and reducing points per model.