Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[Turragor]

4 minutes ago, TalesOfSigmar said:

That's true, always forget he can make them retreat and charge. Always just remember him from blowing up terrain haha!

I could drop either the Castellant or Azyros and include him. Might give the list a run out and see what it's like.

But like you said, it's probably wise waiting for the new Battletome to see what's what.

If I find myself hankering for a 120 hero and Ive a LCoD I usually, sadly, drop the LCoD and take the LC on foot and the 120 hero.

THEN I redo the list and add the LCoD in again and move another hero about.

THEN I never decide and never play.

The new tome is hopefully going to be ace!

[Sete]

Not rebound lol, reboxed.

No details tho 

[Turragor]

5 minutes ago, Sete said:

Not rebound lol, reboxed.

No details tho 

Rebound in cardboard

[Siegfried VII]

I have the same problem with the Warrior Brotherhood... it's just that good and the alternatives are not as sexy...

If you go Paladin foot-slogging you'll never get there, if you go Dracoth-heavy you are fast but the army has so few wounds that mortal wound spam armies dance on your corpse.

I tried some lists with the Vexillor but at 200pts he is just too expensive and in the case you want to send two units across you have payed almost 1/4 of your points allowance just for this...

[chord]

What battalion do people use at 1K points?  I've used hammerstrike to get the paladins up there fast.

[Mikeboll]

Any one tried the wardens of the realmgate out? Think this list could be fun. 2 paladin units to send through the realmgate and a prime to come down late game. Even liberators can be good to send through to get to objectives. 

 

Leaders
Lord Castellant (100)
Lord Relictor (80)
Celestant-Prime (360)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows

Units
10 x Paladin Retributors (440)
10 x Paladin Protectors (400)

Battalions
Wardens of the Realmgate (80)

Total: 1980/2000

[Austin]

Just joined up, and as I've been looking through various threads I noticed that people don't seem to think highly of Concussors or Desolators. Why is that? I've used Concussors to some success in small units, but I haven't tried out either Tempestors or Fulminators. 

[Bjarni St.]

There are a few ways they could do with WB to cut it down to size (without just nerfing it into the ground).

They could limit it to one (none might be too severe) Azyros. That way opponents have more space for counterplay and you actually have to make a charge, albeit a short one.

Shrink the battalion. Any combination of e.g. only one hero (similar to above), one Paladins (or a Decimator tax) or cutting down the number of Libs, Judes and Prosecutors. Cutting Paladins would reduce power but even reducing the others makes it so that the battalion doesn't so easily fill a 2k point list on its own with pretty optimal unit sizes for the single drop list advantage.

They of course could also make it more expensive. It's already not cheap but it's always an option. Skryre is thematically thematically similar and it's 200.

Finally, some changes to penalise null-deploying in matched play could promote diversity.

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, Bjarni St. said:

There are a few ways they could do with WB to cut it down to size (without just nerfing it into the ground).

They could limit it to one (none might be too severe) Azyros. That way opponents have more space for counterplay and you actually have to make a charge, albeit a short one.

Shrink the battalion. Any combination of e.g. only one hero (similar to above), one Paladins (or a Decimator tax) or cutting down the number of Libs, Judes and Prosecutors. Cutting Paladins would reduce power but even reducing the others makes it so that the battalion doesn't so easily fill a 2k point list on its own with pretty optimal unit sizes for the single drop list advantage.

They of course could also make it more expensive. It's already not cheap but it's always an option. Skryre is thematically thematically similar and it's 200.

Finally, some changes to penalise null-deploying in matched play could promote diversity.

Scenarios where the Stormcast player can choose to deploy round 3 and  not have lost anything are probably the worst offence of the battalion. Like it's cut the game in half.

I would suggest removing the unit by unit deployment. Too strong imo. I'd have it like skyborne slayers. I wouldn't have the 'all units in a radius' requirement but otherwise the same.

Then we could bring back in the worth of units able to  zip about to fulfill that necessary function (as Stormcast are so slow).

I think the new tome will address it anyway.

[Requizen]

2 hours ago, Caladancid said:

Just joined up, and as I've been looking through various threads I noticed that people don't seem to think highly of Concussors or Desolators. Why is that? I've used Concussors to some success in small units, but I haven't tried out either Tempestors or Fulminators. 

Concussors are quite good until you hit anyone who can put out high rend or MW damage from a range, just like all Dracoth riders. The best all arounders from Extremis imo but also the most expensive other than the Stardrakes. 

Desolators don't get good unless you run them in a big unit and are already expensive at just 2,  let alone 6 models. 

 

Quite good at low points until you run into Thundertusks imo. 

[Turragor]

3 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Concussors are quite good until you hit anyone who can put out high rend or MW damage from a range, just like all Dracoth riders. The best all arounders from Extremis imo but also the most expensive other than the Stardrakes. 

Desolators don't get good unless you run them in a big unit and are already expensive at just 2,  let alone 6 models. 

 

Quite good at low points until you run into Thundertusks imo. 

To be fair, MW is a weakness for any stormcast unit.

It's a case of feeling hurt because a thundertusk killed 1 dracothian guard and put 1 wound on another with no effort. Taking away 140 points.

Those mws would have hurt elsewhere (just not to the same cost on a unit, but on a hero maybe).

Rend, well that's just points again. They've the joint best save (bar fulminators) of any Stormcast model but if they fail it and they die they are deeear.

I think it's a case of having your nice killy dear models focused on. Which is what the game's about.

We need to think of how to protect the riders.

[Requizen]

A unit of 4 Fulminators or Concussors teleported with a Vexillor can and will kill near anything in the game and are relatively safe since you can plop them down almost anywhere. However that's super expensive and even at 2000 point games it's a large dint of your points. 

[Nico]

Fulminators are ace as a free standing hard counter to Arrerboyz and other types of pew pew (not Warp Lightning Cannons or Skyfyres). However, there is nothing more reliable than a 3+, 3+, -1 rend attack and it's even more reliable when it only does triple damage on the charge.... 

Tempestors are unsung heroes - in units of two they automatically slap on a stackable -1 to hit debuff, which can be massive. It also stacks with the Relictor's debuff or various other ones.

[Austin]

4 hours ago, Requizen said:

Concussors are quite good until you hit anyone who can put out high rend or MW damage from a range, just like all Dracoth riders. The best all arounders from Extremis imo but also the most expensive other than the Stardrakes. 

Desolators don't get good unless you run them in a big unit and are already expensive at just 2,  let alone 6 models. 

 

Quite good at low points until you run into Thundertusks imo. 

Ah. I haven't played any Beastclaw lists, which I know makes me a minority.

I really like the Dracoths and want to use them more than I generally do.

[Turragor]

7 hours ago, Caladancid said:

Ah. I haven't played any Beastclaw lists, which I know makes me a minority.

I really like the Dracoths and want to use them more than I generally do.

You and me both, I have a dracothian soul. The new tome will overthrow the domination of Warrior Brotherhood I hope.

[TalesOfSigmar]

My hopes of the new battletome isn't about nerfing Warrior Brotherhood it's about giving Stormcast players more viable battalions that give them some variedness.

I'm hoping for some that incorporate Dracoth riders along with Paladins. Maybe allow only one unit from the batallion to drop from the sky. Means you can still get your Paladins where you want them but also have the options of using the Dracoth Riders on the ground, etc.

Another could be using the new Ranger models, it looks like one of the guys is holding some sort of crystal/homing beacon etc. Could have a batallion where it allows models to drop within 5" of a unit of Rangers or something along them ways.

The one problem with most of Stormcast troops are the speed. Hence why Warrior Brotherhood and Skyborne Slayers is needed. No one wants to foot slog 4" Paladins around the board as we know they isn't going to be many of them left by the time they get where they need to go.

Maybe one of the command traits would allow you to have D3 units teleporting into battle. Means you can have a mixed army of on the ground troops and then some dropping from the heavens rather than the whole army up in the skies.

Anyway it's just wish-listing at the moment. Hoping we don't have to wait too long into Feb before we get to see all the new Stormcast bits.

[Austin]

Yeah I can't wait for the new stuff, just for a bit more variety. I am wondering what sort of heavy hitter it will bring without taking the spot of the dracoth riders. 

[Turragor]

2 hours ago, TalesOfSigmar said:

My hopes of the new battletome isn't about nerfing Warrior Brotherhood it's about giving Stormcast players more viable battalions that give them some variedness.

I'm hoping for some that incorporate Dracoth riders along with Paladins. Maybe allow only one unit from the batallion to drop from the sky. Means you can still get your Paladins where you want them but also have the options of using the Dracoth Riders on the ground, etc.

Another could be using the new Ranger models, it looks like one of the guys is holding some sort of crystal/homing beacon etc. Could have a batallion where it allows models to drop within 5" of a unit of Rangers or something along them ways.

The one problem with most of Stormcast troops are the speed. Hence why Warrior Brotherhood and Skyborne Slayers is needed. No one wants to foot slog 4" Paladins around the board as we know they isn't going to be many of them left by the time they get where they need to go.

Maybe one of the command traits would allow you to have D3 units teleporting into battle. Means you can have a mixed army of on the ground troops and then some dropping from the heavens rather than the whole army up in the skies.

Anyway it's just wish-listing at the moment. Hoping we don't have to wait too long into Feb before we get to see all the new Stormcast bits.

Rangers as homing beacons I like.

[Aezeal]

5 hours ago, Caladancid said:

Yeah I can't wait for the new stuff, just for a bit more variety. I am wondering what sort of heavy hitter it will bring without taking the spot of the dracoth riders. 

It's the fast cav department (vanguard) not the heavy troops (Extremis) so i'd guess less heavy hitters and more speeeeeed.

It might bring some scout like abilities other armies have (after deployment move? alternate deployment method outside of deployment zones?)

[Aeonotakist]

Actually if you go back 6 months ago, most people think  Skyborne is better than WB. Just because WB has 3 Librator Units which seems quite useless. Also a lot of people dont know about how to use Azyros.

With time goes by, there are so many counters for Skyborne that focus on its disadvantage: You have to deploy in one time. With Azyros fully utilised,  WB is becoming much popular.

 

But TBH I really don't think WB is the king of AOS. It's just the entrance level of T1 list. They get critical weakness when going against horde troops. I have seldom seen them beat 60 Gnots with Fanatics, 50 Arrowboyz and some Thundertusk mixed destruction army. The no fly zone, the massive wounds from boyz, they are something WB will never be able to deal with. And a list with fatal disadvantage to another T1 list can just be described as 'Entrance of T1'. You can be an opportunist and even win some top3 in Tourney. But most of the time I see FEC/TK/Destruction take that place. 

 

If we want to make SE more interesting, it's better to buff Draconith troop a little bit.

[Austin]

Does anyone run max sized units of Liberators? I'd like to try one backed up by a Castellant, then charge various killy units into the side. 

The problem I usually run into when I consider this is that Liberators seem too expensive just for a roadblock. 

[Siegfried VII]

8 hours ago, Caladancid said:

Does anyone run max sized units of Liberators? I'd like to try one backed up by a Castellant, then charge various killy units into the side. 

The problem I usually run into when I consider this is that Liberators seem too expensive just for a roadblock. 

 

In my opinion Liberators suffer the most due to their 40mm bases and 1 inch range of their weapons. You really can't have a unit of many Liberators in order to take advantage of the fact they cost much less than the paladins because they won't be able to attack properly with their current range and footing, so everyone takes them in units of 5 and only use them as objective grabbers/roadblocks...

[Ggg]

What about an army centered on the hammerstrike force?

I know it's not a alpha strike but good nonetheless.

 

It goes like this:

 

- Vexillor 

- 2 x 10 retributors

- 1 x 3 proscecutors

-  hammerstrike force

 

Just teleport the proscecutors with vexillor, enjoy hurting with storm effet and then bring in the retributors within striking range. The'll even get the +1 to wound benefit.

Fill the rest with what you want.

[Olincay]

Anyone still using the Vexillor + 10x Retributors or 4x Fulminators for competitiveness?
How does the old combo go against Warrior Brotherhood?

[Turragor]

So from Ben Curry's latest bad dice podcast (info gleaned from the new WD) it seems like we're going to have so many more options open to us in terms of mobility and army composition.

The new units are fast. Hella fast.

Vanguard - their azure compass thingys - can deploy on any table edge.

Palladors and mounted units - 1 time per game 36" movement (is that with run, without, charging too?) Generally they are going to be fast!

New Lord Aquilor - Command ability lets a unit leave one table edge and return on another.

Then without these unit specific elements we have the Scions ability (I wanna say its our new allegiance ability) - whereby any unit can deploy in the celestial realm and deploy via lightning strike (outside 9" of enemy units) IF you roll a 3 or more for the unit in the hero phase (or movement phase, specifics needed)

I am excited!

I'll be thinking about a list with some heavy hitters in the celestial realm - the 3 plus means it's a risk (but the movement and guarding against other alphastrike lists is great) but that's good. Need to balance in some way.

Then have a tough core of starting units and add in a mobile detachment that can redeploy once the battle is underway (still the stormcast weakness will be post lightning strike if the opponent moves out of reach)

I'm not tied to the WB or Skyborne formations and I've a greater range of models (yay for new vanguard!) at my disposal.

Side bonus - it sounds like Relictors are gonna be hot! No way they're gonna be 80 pts in new scroll.