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Let's chat Stormcast Eternals


Requizen

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4 hours ago, Turragor said:

 

I love the idea of aether and hammerstrike forces.

Some notes - You can't take 2x artefacts on the castellant. I would take lantern of the tempest or mirrorshield (mirrorshields for days at the moment).

I also don't rate bless weapons on the relictor without a big ranged unit and when paladins are x5 and going to land far away.

Lightning chariot would be better for some movement shenanigans.

I am not a fan of the venator but he's in the formation, however I am especially not a fan of the venator with luckstone (super all in for a 1 time shot imo). ANOTHER mirrorshield is best. On the azyros perhaps.

 

Thanks for the feedback! Choosing and kitting out heroes is what I need the most help with.  

I'm with you on the Venator.  He's pretty weak once you've used the SFA and you can't rely on that cornerstone ability to do what it's supposed to do.  Which is why I thought the Obsidian Blade on him would be great....but it specifies melee weapons only.  The thought with the Luckstone was just to make him a distraction; something my opponent would always have to account for.  But just using him as is is usually best, I agree.

I'll have to play around with some of the other spells.  I've only used Bless Weapons since the new tome.

How do you rate the Castellant vs a Lord Celestant on foot?

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3 minutes ago, Let's 'ere it for da boyz! said:

Thanks for the feedback! Choosing and kitting out heroes is what I need the most help with.  

I'm with you on the Venator.  He's pretty weak once you've used the SFA and you can't rely on that cornerstone ability to do what it's supposed to do.  Which is why I thought the Obsidian Blade on him would be great....but it specifies melee weapons only.  The thought with the Luckstone was just to make him a distraction; something my opponent would always have to account for.  But just using him as is is usually best, I agree.

I'll have to play around with some of the other spells.  I've only used Bless Weapons since the new tome.

How do you rate the Castellant vs a Lord Celestant on foot?

Castellant with Staunch Defenders is too good. I wouldn't take a Lord Celestant over him if I had to choose. Right now all lists I ponder and test have a Lord Relictor and Lord Castellant in and a General with Staunch Defenders.

I think those 2 heroes with the formation winged heroes are just right.

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1 hour ago, Let's 'ere it for da boyz! said:

Thanks for the feedback! Choosing and kitting out heroes is what I need the most help with.  

I'm with you on the Venator.  He's pretty weak once you've used the SFA and you can't rely on that cornerstone ability to do what it's supposed to do.  Which is why I thought the Obsidian Blade on him would be great....but it specifies melee weapons only.  The thought with the Luckstone was just to make him a distraction; something my opponent would always have to account for.  But just using him as is is usually best, I agree.

I'll have to play around with some of the other spells.  I've only used Bless Weapons since the new tome.

How do you rate the Castellant vs a Lord Celestant on foot?

If you are thinking of heroes, try out a Lord-Veritant some time. They are fairly underrated, but I have found that he's a beast in combat. The unbinding can be dependent on the army you face clearly, but those wounds and 2 damage attack are always the same!

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1 hour ago, Turragor said:

Castellant with Staunch Defenders is too good. I wouldn't take a Lord Celestant over him if I had to choose. Right now all lists I ponder and test have a Lord Relictor and Lord Castellant in and a General with Staunch Defenders.

Are you typically running your Castellant as your general?  Or do you find you get more mileage from the ability with a unit Prime?

 

37 minutes ago, Caladancid said:

If you are thinking of heroes, try out a Lord-Veritant some time. They are fairly underrated, but I have found that he's a beast in combat. The unbinding can be dependent on the army you face clearly, but those wounds and 2 damage attack are always the same!

Interesting.  What would you change hero-wise to fit a Veritant in?  There's some wiggle with the heroes, but the rest of the list is pretty locked in.

I suppose I could downgrade the Retributors, but...

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5 minutes ago, Let's 'ere it for da boyz! said:

Are you typically running your Castellant as your general?  Or do you find you get more mileage from the ability with a unit Prime?

I take it on Castellant. I played a game yesterday with a Lord Celestant on Stardrake as general with Staunch Defenders but that leaves the castellant as an 'easy' target.

I'm still not sure on what I like best overall!

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9 minutes ago, Let's 'ere it for da boyz! said:

Are you typically running your Castellant as your general?  Or do you find you get more mileage from the ability with a unit Prime?

 

Interesting.  What would you change hero-wise to fit a Veritant in?  There's some wiggle with the heroes, but the rest of the list is pretty locked in.

I suppose I could downgrade the Retributors, but...

So a possibility would be to take out the two heroes, and stick in the Veritant and a gryph hound. You will still get the prayers you would have gotten with the Relictor.

Another option would be the Veritant, and increase the size of your Prosecutor unit to make sure they stay around.

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I think taking away a castellant or a relictor for a veritant should never happen.

Ofc, I have never tried one. I haven't bought one. I don't feel I am missing out (but then don't play magic heavy forces often).

He has nice stats, some useful abilities but I dunno, I never really think of heroes as 'going into combat'. That's for units - buffed by heroes.

I'd take 5 liberators over a veritant for example if I had the points spare. Maybe if I knew I'd face a bunch of wizards...

How do you find him if there are no wizzies around?

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15 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I think taking away a castellant or a relictor for a veritant should never happen.

Ofc, I have never tried one. I haven't bought one. I don't feel I am missing out (but then don't play magic heavy forces often).

He has nice stats, some useful abilities but I dunno, I never really think of heroes as 'going into combat'. That's for units - buffed by heroes.

I'd take 5 liberators over a veritant for example if I had the points spare. Maybe if I knew I'd face a bunch of wizards...

How do you find him if there are no wizzies around?

The castellant is actually one of the more killy heroes though. Surprisingly so. Has a 3+ save that he can buff to 2+ (heals on a 6), 5 wounds, 3x 2" reach attacks at 3/3/-1/2 (2 damage!), which makes him the second best fighter out of all the foot sloggers bar maybe the lord celestant on foot. Veritant on the other hand is 4 attacks, 1 more than the castellant but with 1" less reach. Both are pretty powerful in combat. 

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12 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I think taking away a castellant or a relictor for a veritant should never happen.

Ofc, I have never tried one. I haven't bought one. I don't feel I am missing out (but then don't play magic heavy forces often).

He has nice stats, some useful abilities but I dunno, I never really think of heroes as 'going into combat'. That's for units - buffed by heroes.

I'd take 5 liberators over a veritant for example if I had the points spare. Maybe if I knew I'd face a bunch of wizards...

How do you find him if there are no wizzies around?

None of my comments are meant to say that a Veritant is categorically better than any other hero, just that I think it should be considered as it isn't a bad option.

First, lets look at a Veritant next to the heroes we are discussing. The Veritant has literally double the combat output of a Relictor, with an extra wound and an extra inch of movement. He can take the same prayers (which is a huge buff to Veritants in general), and has a niche anti magic ability versus the more useable storms a Relictor can use. Both heroes will for sure end up in combat, unless you really are just hanging the Relictor 12 inches back from a unit to try and heal them.

Then compared to Castellant it is pretty close. Same stat line, Veritant still has more damage output, though less range (this doesn't usually seem to be a drawback but that could just be me). Both have the option to take a Mystic Light. Veritant has prayers, Castellant does not. Castellant has a very nice lantern that you will always use for the +1 save. Of course, the Veritant is 20 more points.

If there aren't wizards around, the Veritant is less useful. Though I find that Sylvaneth and Tzeentch are very very common, Khorne less so (which could change with the new book). The prayers really help the Veritant remain powerful, and the range of Lightning Chariot requires he be close to the front lines, where he does shine.

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On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 8:03 AM, Let's 'ere it for da boyz! said:

I'm with you on the Venator.  He's pretty weak once you've used the SFA and you can't rely on that cornerstone ability to do what it's supposed to do.  

Really?!?  I've had nothing but success with I'm and that's not counting the SFA.  6 missile attacks , 3 of which have the potential for -3 rend.  30" range,  high movement and a 3+ save?   Literally won me games all on his own.

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41 minutes ago, chord said:

Really?!?  I've had nothing but success with I'm and that's not counting the SFA.  6 missile attacks , 3 of which have the potential for -3 rend.  30" range,  high movement and a 3+ save?   Literally won me games all on his own.

I didn't mean he's not useful.  His damage isn't bad, it's just that all the Stormcast heroes function primarily as force multipliers.  The Venator just isn't that.  He's really just about dealing damage from range, but I feel like a lot of his point cost is hung on that SFA...and you're really counting on a hero/monster failing a 3+ or 4+ save most of the time.  He's not a cheap model to put on the table relative to some other choices that bring more synergy to your lists.  Just my opinion.

He is a fun model though, especially when that SFA gets though for 8-9 damage!

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6 minutes ago, Let's 'ere it for da boyz! said:

I didn't mean he's not useful.  His damage isn't bad, it's just that all the Stormcast heroes function primarily as force multipliers.  The Venator just isn't that.  He's really just about dealing damage from range, but I feel like a lot of his point cost is hung on that SFA...and you're really counting on a hero/monster failing a 3+ or 4+ save most of the time.  He's not a cheap model to put on the table relative to some other choices that bring more synergy to your lists.  Just my opinion.

He is a fun model though, especially when that SFA gets though for 8-9 damage!

Well if we are talking points wise I'd say he's still great.  120 points gets you 6 missile attacks, high range, high movement, good save, chance for high rend on half the missile attacks and his one time shot ability.  And he is elevated so he can see over things.

160 points for Bow judicators gets you smaller range, worse save, More wounds per unit, potential if you use the special weapon for More Damage .

I think he is priced appropriately at 120

 

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I used a Luckstone Venator at the Adepticon Champs and he was a champ. His SFA sniped out a Khorne Lord on Juggernaught, a Mighty Lord of Khorne, two Branchwyches, and put 8 wounds on the Glottkin. And then shot at various things throughout the game, so he was more than worth the points he cost.

The Lightning Chariot Relictor was... ok. He failed Chariot a bunch, and only got to Lightning Storm a couple times, the rest of the time he kind of shuffled around without doing much. But when he's only 80 points, that's not too bad.

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Im thinking of testing aetherstrike soon so I will have to take a venator. Maybe I'll change my mind!

I think it's just a heavy rng hero.

Venators performance is kind of:

  • Awful
  • What is the point in this guy?!
  • Amazing!
  • Game Winning!
  • Great!
  • Okay

Most of the force multipliers are:

  • Nice
  • Okay
  • Good
  • Good
  • Decent!
  • Meh...

 

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42 minutes ago, Requizen said:

I used a Luckstone Venator at the Adepticon Champs and he was a champ. His SFA sniped out a Khorne Lord on Juggernaught, a Mighty Lord of Khorne, two Branchwyches, and put 8 wounds on the Glottkin. And then shot at various things throughout the game, so he was more than worth the points he cost.

The Lightning Chariot Relictor was... ok. He failed Chariot a bunch, and only got to Lightning Storm a couple times, the rest of the time he kind of shuffled around without doing much. But when he's only 80 points, that's not too bad.

How did adepticon go?  Battle reports? 

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37 minutes ago, Turragor said:

 

I think it's just a heavy rng hero.

Venators performance is kind of:

  • Awful
  • What is the point in this guy?!
  • Amazing!
  • Game Winning!
  • Great!
  • Okay

Most of the force multipliers are:

  • Nice
  • Okay
  • Good
  • Good
  • Decent!
  • Meh...

 

I agree with this 100%.  I have no problem conceding that the Venator is a nice piece that we Stormcast players are lucky to have in our toolbox.  I just don't think it is a super-powerful, auto-include option for every list.

It can and does do everything that @Requizen and @chord have said.  But more often you will either miss with that SFA or watch your opponent make his save.  The odds are even worse if the target is in terrain or buffed by Mystic Shield.

For the same or fewer points, you could have a model that can: 

•port a unit across the table

•allow your unit to hit more reliably or make it harder for your opponent to hit your units.

•improve a unit's armor save by +1 or +2

•heal back lost wounds to a unit.

Any/all of these abilities also come in a package that can, generally at least, hold its own in melee.  In several cases, these other Stormcast heroes can shine just as brightly in melee as the Venator does from range in addition to their cornerstone abilities.

I'm not saying the Venator isn't worth it's points, I'm just of the opinion that it doesn't represent nearly as much value as some of our other choices.

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44 minutes ago, Let's 'ere it for da boyz! said:

 

•port a unit across the table

•allow your unit to hit more reliably or make it harder for your opponent to hit your units.

•improve a unit's armor save by +1 or +2

•heal back lost wounds to a unit.

 

Some (not all) of these are dice rolls which would make it in the same camp as the SFA IMO.  If we count the opponent's save roll against the Venator, a dice roll should count against other models.

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7 hours ago, Turragor said:

Im thinking of testing aetherstrike soon so I will have to take a venator. Maybe I'll change my mind!

I think it's just a heavy rng hero.

Venators performance is kind of:

  • Awful
  • What is the point in this guy?!
  • Amazing!
  • Game Winning!
  • Great!
  • Okay

Most of the force multipliers are:

  • Nice
  • Okay
  • Good
  • Good
  • Decent!
  • Meh...

 

Personally the only good thing about the Venator is that he's a hero that flies. If you want reliable damage over multiple turns, long strikes or judicators will out perform him. 

That being said the aetherwing battalion seems to be pretty intriguing..

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16 hours ago, Olincay said:

Personally the only good thing about the Venator is that he's a hero that flies. If you want reliable damage over multiple turns, long strikes or judicators will out perform him. 

That being said the aetherwing battalion seems to be pretty intriguing..

It's actually a huge deal. He has the longest threat range of any of our units that start on the table (not counting using Lightning Chariot/Pennant). 

If you're playing heavy Null Deploy or Alpha Strike, something like Skyborne Slayers, Hammerstrike, or even just if you like starting lots of units in Scions of the Storm, having something that can reach out and touch 42" on turn one is a big deal. A lot of my Slayers games consist of my opponents huddling in a corner or just lined up on their deployment line, refusing to come out until my dudes come down. Melee units will take time running across the table, and even Judicators/Longstrikes may be out of range or end up without a target if they camp the backfield, but the Venator will almost always have something to shoot at/interact with on every turn of the game. 

Aetherwing intrigues me as well. I worry about there not being enough frontline to stop aggro lists from reaching your weak shooting units, would probably need to stock up on Liberators/Hunters to slow things down, but I think overall it's quite a powerful option. It's my next list to work on, once I finish painting what I have and get irl stuff sorted out.

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3 hours ago, Requizen said:

It's actually a huge deal. He has the longest threat range of any of our units that start on the table (not counting using Lightning Chariot/Pennant). 

If you're playing heavy Null Deploy or Alpha Strike, something like Skyborne Slayers, Hammerstrike, or even just if you like starting lots of units in Scions of the Storm, having something that can reach out and touch 42" on turn one is a big deal. A lot of my Slayers games consist of my opponents huddling in a corner or just lined up on their deployment line, refusing to come out until my dudes come down. Melee units will take time running across the table, and even Judicators/Longstrikes may be out of range or end up without a target if they camp the backfield, but the Venator will almost always have something to shoot at/interact with on every turn of the game. 

Aetherwing intrigues me as well. I worry about there not being enough frontline to stop aggro lists from reaching your weak shooting units, would probably need to stock up on Liberators/Hunters to slow things down, but I think overall it's quite a powerful option. It's my next list to work on, once I finish painting what I have and get irl stuff sorted out.

I like switching my thinking up with the venator at the moment. Ppl are talking him up without mentioning SFA and that's great. 

If he's solid plus sometimes throws down 9 wounds on a monster that's a much better spin on things. 

Anyway I thinking of trying that list I heard about on face hammer at my next tourney. The Aether strike with stardrake! 

I just can't quit you stardrake. 

I think i don't have the tactical chops to pull off a mostly shooting plus one behemoth list. I'll position and deploy wrong and get stomped... 

But it might be fun! 

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