Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[SpiritofHokuto]

On 12/29/2016 at 7:21 PM, Snoe said:

We all know Skyborn and Brotherhood are the most competitive battalions but has anyone else used any other?
Either for fun or for effect. I assume most of us look at the long list in the app with available battalions but since you don't know what they do you don't unlock them.

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The thing is that movement/maneuverability is one of the few glaring weaknesses of Stormcasts (along with the numbers game) so anything that fixes that is always going to be a compelling choice. It also doesn't help that they are the most "playable" battalions either as they are in the sweet spot for points that it defines your force but you still have some wiggle room.

 

That being said the Hammerstrike Force lets you have some mobile Retributors for a smaller investment and Wardens of the Realmgate is a great basis for a more defensive minded force.

[Immersturm]

This may change once (and if) some of the other Formations from Realmgate Wars, Godbeasts and so forth get point. Many of those are fairly compact and would work really well.

Outside of that, I had plenty success with Dracoths. They are decently quick on their feet (paws?) and when taking with a Heraldor or Vexillorin combination with Reckless they become quite fast indeed, especially with the Vexillor who allows them either to alpha strike or simply redeploy later in the game.

[Nico]

Quote

This may change once (and if) some of the other Formations from Realmgate Wars, Godbeasts and so forth get point. Many of those are fairly compact and would work really well.

I wouldn't count on it. The Brotherhood of the Great Bolts is certainly compact, but that's not the main thing about it. It would happily defeat most Warhammer 40K armies by itself....

Don't forget that the Azyros (such a bargain for 100 points!) also gives your pew pew (not your melee) reroll 1s to hit nearby enemy units. He also has a 3+ save, which most armies don't have ready access to.

Have any people tried using Brotherhood vs Kunning Rukk (whether in a pure Bonesplitterz  list or otherwise). I'm thinking that it wouldn't end well. Even if you went Protectors (for the -1 to hit with pew pew debuff), they are still likely going to kill every single model within range of the Arrer Boyz (4+ saves, unlikely to be in cover, definitely no mystic shield or lantern buff) that you drop near the Green Deathstar.

Even if you've killed the Savage Orruk Big Boss (will depend on whether he can hide out of line of sight i.e. pure luck of what terrain happens to be in the deployment zones), you are still going to take 120 shots to the face with +1, +2 or +3 to hit (depending on whether you've also killed the Wizards with pew pew; and whether  and how much Damned Terrain they have managed to get in their deployment zone). Even if you get a double turn, you probably still haven't finished chewing though 80 wounds of Savage Orruks to put any melee damage on the Arrer Boyz at all. Then they might double turn you back and you've lost everything you've deployed.

You could plug the remaining points with Fulminators of course, but they are going to need 2 turns to get into combat (and will get ground down by melee attacks potentially).  

Pure Bonesplitterz can match you single drop army for single drop army if they need to, then they can make you go first, potentially lob cheap units onto the objectives and start scoring while they wait for you to blink. Meanwhile the Green Deathstar moves into position (with Hand of Broken to speed it on its way).

 

 

[Knight-Errant]

As far as Liberators are concerned, except when i use WB, i use Vanguard wing with a 10 man liberator unit (once tried with 15 and once with 20 but its difficult to get them all to attack even with conga etc etc, also keep in mind 3 to 4 grand hammers doing 7 to 9 attacks) .They get 1 more to wound if to hit is 6 plus, if you get a LC near them .........., now, check it with a grand hammer (one for prime and one more , that's 5 attacks and if you roll a 5 or 6.......)  They get to teleport anywhere within 5'' of the 3 prosecutor units, and , they can do it in every movement phase. Always use Javelins on prosecutors. 

I also use Vanguard wing (10 lib , 3 prosecutor units with javs)  with waffen-SS (lol) Devastating

SS 1160 points

VW 540 points

and 300 points for whatever you may think of.

[Requizen]

17 hours ago, Olincay said:

The few games ive ran with it *minus the Azyros* I've brought it down hard to alpha strike key parts of my opponents army. 

Bringing it down in parts turn by turn may give your opponent the time to deal with your units peacemeal. Escecially if your drop is followed by them double turning you. 

Bringing it down piecemeal can be quite useful depending on your opponent and the mission. Against something like Skryre Stormfiend filth, you can use it to plop down Liberators, Judicators, and Prosecutors onto objectives, waiting for the subterranian assault to pop up, and then slam into them with the Paladins you held behind. Objective heavy games don't always worry about having a super killy alpha strike if you can rack up more points by tactically spreading out and contesting/controlling all the objectives.

2 hours ago, Nico said:

Have any people tried using Brotherhood vs Kunning Rukk (whether in a pure Bonesplitterz  list or otherwise). I'm thinking that it wouldn't end well. Even if you went Protectors (for the -1 to hit with pew pew debuff), they are still likely going to kill every single model within range of the Arrer Boyz (4+ saves, unlikely to be in cover, definitely no mystic shield or lantern buff) that you drop near the Green Deathstar.

I haven't had the matchup yet, but I suppose it would depend on the list. I feel like if it's going to be a huge part of the meta, it may be smart to go with Decimators since they can scythe through Boyz in a very quick fashion. It'll come down to the battleplan and positioning, it may be wise to keep your lightning lads off the table for a few turns until they spread out (which they probably will unless the victory conditions allow them to castle up).

You're probably undervaluing Fulminators. 10 wounds with a 2+ rerollable means you need 360 wounds to kill them off, or 180 to kill off just one. Even with massive buffs that's a lot of shooting. I think two units of Fulminators can potentially be quite useful against them, though that gets expensive quickly.

[Nico]

Fulminators are the hard counter, but that makes it less of a Warrior Brotherhood army. I made the point (probably not very clearly) that they are virtually invincible vs Arrer Boyz - it's all the other stuff that will bounce and then die.

Thankfully they don't have the Paladins keyword, or you could put them in the Battalion.

[Immersturm]

I am considering to include Fulminators in Skyborne Slayers. Possibly 4 of them (ontop of minimal selection of SS and use remaining point for more Heroes). Or would I better off with a non-Formation army either either a Vexillor (for alpha strike of mid/late game repositioning) and/or a Heraldor to get them where they are needed?

[SpiritofHokuto]

5 hours ago, Immersturm said:

I am considering to include Fulminators in Skyborne Slayers. Possibly 4 of them (ontop of minimal selection of SS and use remaining point for more Heroes). Or would I better off with a non-Formation army either either a Vexillor (for alpha strike of mid/late game repositioning) and/or a Heraldor to get them where they are needed?

That's kind of what what I'm thinking:

 

Lord-Celestant: 100

(General, Reckless, Relic Blade)

Lord-Celestant on Dracoth: 220

(Relic Blade)

Lord-Castellant: 100

5x Judicators: 160

(4x Skybolt Bow, 1x Shockbolt Bow)

5x Judicators: 160

(4x Skybolt Bow, 1x Shockbolt Bow)

5x Liberator: 100

(4x Warhammer & Shield, 1x Grandhammer)

5x Liberator: 100

(4x Warhammer & Shield, 1x Grandhammer)

5x Decimators: 200

5x Protectors: 200

(2x Starsoul Mace)

4x Fulminators: 480

1x Gryph-Hound: 40

 

[kozokus]

2 hours ago, SpiritofHokuto said:

That's kind of what what I'm thinking:

Lord-Celestant on Dracoth: 220

(Relic Blade)

 

5x Decimators: 200

 

 

Like your list.

The only thing i would suggest is to swap the relic blade for the one that does +1 REND on the LCOD. I mean, both are good, but on him i prefer the rend.

The other thing i would sugest is to add Starsoul maces. Mathammer apart, simply try to keep track of what your 2 axes do and what two maces would do.

You may have some surprises.

 

[SpiritofHokuto]

6 hours ago, kozokus said:

Like your list.

The only thing i would suggest is to swap the relic blade for the one that does +1 REND on the LCOD. I mean, both are good, but on him i prefer the rend.

The other thing i would sugest is to add Starsoul maces. Mathammer apart, simply try to keep track of what your 2 axes do and what two maces would do.

You may have some surprises.

 

That's a good point about the Obstinate Blade, it does seem the best fit for the Tempestos Hammer.

 

And yeah don't worry the Starsoul Maces were just an omission on my part. Always all the maces I can take.

[Immersturm]

I had something similar in mind, only without the Dracoth Celestand and Gryph hound and instead a Heraldor and Venator. I am a bit paranoid about Three Place of Power

Anyway, you recon a list like can compete? The alternative I had in mind was something like Fulmenators, Celestant on Dracoth, 2 Judicators and a Liberator unit, Heraldor, Vexillor Castellan and fill the rest up with whatever fits it. Possibly a second Vexillor or something.

[SpiritofHokuto]

4 minutes ago, Immersturm said:

I had something similar in mind, only without the Dracoth Celestand and Gryph hound and instead a Heraldor and Venator. I am a bit paranoid about Three Place of Power

Anyway, you recon a list like can compete? The alternative I had in mind was something like Fulmenators, Celestant on Dracoth, 2 Judicators and a Liberator unit, Heraldor, Vexillor Castellan and fill the rest up with whatever fits it. Possibly a second Vexillor or something.

Fulminators with the Castellant's buff are a tough nut to crack at range, 2+ save with 6's healing is nothing to sniff at. So I don't feel they need the Vexillor to "protect" them. 

The Gryph-Hound is only there as I had 40 points left over. Still its a nice deterrent for other "deep-strikers" especially considering the bursty nature of the Shockbolt Bow.

[Requizen]

I wonder if it's better or worse to run the Fulminators in two units rather than one large one. The Castellant buff is solid, for sure, but they're already 2+ against shooting, it just makes them 2+ against rend -1 and in combat. The Dracoths will outpace the Castellant in a couple turns, as well. With 2 units of 2, you can run a different hero as well, something like a Venator to add to your backfield/shooting prowess and mobility. I find the foot units to be decidedly meh if you're running Skyborne or Brotherhood.

[Immersturm]

Fulmrnators still fold to Skryre shenanigans and Beastclaws. The Vexillor allows them to get the jump on them. Also, do not underestimate the ability to teleport later in the game to snatch objectives.

As for the Lantern, the heals got worse post FAQ. You first do the heals and then the damage. Does no good for full-health Dracoth.

[Requizen]

Eh, I don't know how good the Vexillor is even in those matchups. If either of those matchups, he can die super easily to ranged MWs. Even if you throw him in the corner, the Thundertusks can get into range relatively easily (average 33" range, potentially higher if they roll well or have the Command Trait). Vexillor teleport does nothing against Skryre, and I think I'd rather have 2 units to force them to split up rather than giving one unit for some Stormfiends to pop up on. 

[Immersturm]

Well, beyond alpha strike or full teleport armies, I do not see how SCE can compete against BCR and Skryre, to be fair. Sure, the mission can be in your favour, but that seems a little unrealible.

Okay, if not the Vexillor, what about the Heraldor? Also adds speed and allows Fulmenators to charge even if they get stuck.

[Requizen]

I actually tend to like the Heraldor. You can sometimes get some lucky MWs (especially against Sylvaneth, use their own Woods against them!) and he's relatively cheap. The other nice thing is that he's not necessarily important enough to your army that your opponents will feel compelled to kill him immediately. Vexillor is expensive and feels more like a lynchpin model, so he'll usually get focused down immediately, which can be terrible if he doesn't get a teleport off first. 

[kozokus]

43 minutes ago, Requizen said:

I actually tend to like the Heraldor.

Be careful with him. Blowing a piece of scenery can actually hurt you too as the rules states it dammages ALL units in range. Sometimes rolling a 6 makes you in range of the thunderblast.

[Immersturm]

Another good part is that he can run and blow his horn, seeing as it isn't a shooting attack. I guess one is enough if running the Skyborne? I wouldn't mind running two of them in a non-Formation army. One for the LCOD and one of Fulminators. That way they won't need to bunch up.

[Turragor]

On 29/12/2016 at 7:21 PM, Snoe said:

We all know Skyborn and Brotherhood are the most competitive battalions but has anyone else used any other?
Either for fun or for effect. I assume most of us look at the long list in the app with available battalions but since you don't know what they do you don't unlock them.

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I like dracoths and stardrakes so am waiting for the potential to take a 100% drake list (they need battleline status in an extremis only force for that).

I played a list at a tournament (the only one I've been to so my terrible performance is only part down to my list :P) that included an LCoSD, LCoD and 2 Concussors and felt that those 4 together always made some impact, hit hard somewhere.

I also had a Relictor, 2 x 5 juds, 1 x 5 liberators, 1 x 5 protectors and 1 x 5 decimators with me and I felt like no battalion and the blending of this mounted and non-mounted force wasn't right (or I didn't use it right).

However I still believe a blend can be successful, built right. It's more classic - cavalry with a shieldwall (in effect). In that sense something like all libs, juds and drakes might be interesting.

I think what SC really need for some fun, flavoured lists in matched is more battleline options. Maybe prosecutors as battleline in a pure SC force would be interesting?

 

[Immersturm]

Maybe when the next Stormcast book and Generals Handbook drops.

[Requizen]

How would Stormcast beat 2 Thundertusks in a 1000 point game? I'm having troubles figuring out the matchup while still being relatively TAC. I think it has something to do with a Vexillor and either Protectors, Retributors, or Fulminators bombing one on T1,but I worry that can't compete when it comes to points later on against pther list types. 

[Turragor]

57 minutes ago, Requizen said:

How would Stormcast beat 2 Thundertusks in a 1000 point game? I'm having troubles figuring out the matchup while still being relatively TAC. I think it has something to do with a Vexillor and either Protectors, Retributors, or Fulminators bombing one on T1,but I worry that can't compete when it comes to points later on against pther list types. 

Maybe something like:

Leaders
Knight Azyros (100)
- General
- Trait: Tenacious
Knight Vexillor (200)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer
- Artefact: Obstinate Blade

Units
Judicators x 5 (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Battleline
Liberators x 5 (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- Battleline
Paladin Protectors x 10 (400)
Gryph-Hound x 1 (40)

Total: 1000/2000

[Immersturm]

Alternatively, Wardens of the Realmgate with a similar setup. They get to re-roll saves and have a mobility option with a gate. Just make sure to throw in a Relictor for the re-rolls when using the Gate.

[Requizen]

Can you even use Wardens of the Realmgate in matched? How do you "set-up" a Realmgate?