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Why TGA is a happy place and is going to stay that way. NEEDED A BUMP AGAIN


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41 minutes ago, blueshirtman said:

It is has less to with my personal expiriance, of which I don't have much, and more with how things work in eastern countries. We have story for kids, where a teacher asks a boy.,what is bad and what is good. Bad is when someone steals his cows, and good is when he steals cows. It is rather common in eastern countries to think that way. Sometimes to point where it is considered rude to not cheat. Cheating is not considered moral or immoral, only "unlawful" and this means that it is bad only, when the law catchs you. And it is not like it is just Poland that is like that, Russia, China or other far eastern countries are the same. And actually trying to act different, like lets say not taking bribes, which by the way aren't even called that, they are called presents, bribes are something totaly different from stuff you take from saying you will do something, can get you in to real trouble. Or stuff like saleries in public office being put on a level, aka low one, because everyone assumes you are going to use your position to learn extra. For example almost all teachers in my school give private lessons. Woe to the one who does not take them, specially if it is a pre state exam class. A teacher if he gets angry enough will just fail you, and no one is going to help you. Other teachers are doing the same, so aren't interested in an investigation. other parents don't want their kids to be failed too, because can be vengful if you take on one of their own etc. Motor way police stoping people go, and not giving people tickets is so common it even made it to comedy, where a policeman that stops a truck with christmas stuff doesn't have money to buy anything that "falls off" the truck, so he stops 2 cars and tickets them to get the money to get the stuff. It is common daily stuff.

I find this interesting and really shocking to read. The concept that cheating is not deeply immoral is so weird to me (and to people where I live) that I almost can't understand it. But I guess you would find it weird when the opponent in a tournament game tells you to roll the attack dices while he goes to the toilet and to tell him how many saves he must roll when he comes back. But I guess it is what it is. It is different in different places.

But I guess coming back to the original topic, the forum culture (on TGA) might not cater to all posters in the same way that the culture on Warseer when AOS droped did not work for me (so I moved from there). But the good thing is that there are different forums and different forum cultures so hopefully every one will find a place that suits them.

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10 minutes ago, Andreas said:

I find this interesting and really shocking to read. The concept that cheating is not deeply immoral is so weird to me (and to people where I live) that I almost can't understand it. But I guess you would find it weird when the opponent in a tournament game tells you to roll the attack dices while he goes to the toilet and to tell him how many saves he must roll when he comes back. But I guess it is what it is. It is different in different places.

But I guess coming back to the original topic, the forum culture (on TGA) might not cater to all posters in the same way that the culture on Warseer when AOS droped did not work for me (so I moved from there). But good thing is that there are different forums and different forum cultures so hopefully every one will find a place that suits them.

It is off topic and I am sory for that, but I need to save the image of my part of the world, It is not that cheating is not consider bad, for many here in Poland cheating the "goverment" is not bad. Like going on a buss with no ticket is considered a nobel act, it has roots in the fact that Poland for long time was under outside rule (communist, and German Austria and Russia occupation) and while the goverment was foreigner cheating it was an act of patriotism, or fight for freedom.
Any way it is still considered as a bad thing to cheat in a game or to your community, and lots of people are thinking that now day patriotism is validating your ticket even if you go just one stop on a empty bus.

If you would play with me or any of people I play with, you could go to a toilet and be sure that all rolls were made were legaly and honestly. :D

 

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4 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

Just would like to point out that none of the mod team apart from Ben is part of the Faithful (play testers). I have no insider knowledge and I know as much as you guys. 

Am I critical about GW products? When there is something I don’t like, I will say it. For example I’m not a fan of most of the resent dice sets they have done. I can’t speak for the others but for me, I think what you are getting confused about is not liking something and being very vocal about not liking something. For example, I’m not a fan of historical games but I don’t go around loudly/vocally telling everybody. If it comes up in conversation I will mention it but not like how some people post on the internet. Personally GW have been doing an amazing job over the last few years and there is little I can think about to fault them. My wallet cries every time there is a teaser because the stuff they are doing is great. There’s a reason why I’m part of this community and it’s because I love Warhammer and all the cool stuff GW do. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t be on this forum or painting and playing their games. 

As for this post by Ben, it’s just to remind you all that he started this forum because he loves Warhammer and I would guess majority of you are here because you do. Also, all the recent pokes about behaviour is because we just want you all to be nice to each other and make this a nice place to visit. For example, when I go into a GW store, I’m expected to behave a certain way and I don’t need a set of rules for that. If I went into one of the stores and started swearing or saying how rubbish GW products are, I would be expected to be asked to not say those things or leave. ?

Well some certainly can join events organized by Games Workshop and get to know more that way. But I am aware that the mod theam offcourse isn't exclusive GW playtesters.
However I think one of the important things to realize, which is why people also join forums like this, is that discussion about GW products obviously isn't done as broadly as it is on forums. However some do loudly/vocally speak out that mindset here. In general if it's objective and constructive enough I don't see it as an issue. In most cases I think that the topics discussed in such manner can devolve into subjective discussions however in that case I do feel the original poster or player base has learned something about the subject they wished to discuss. To give some actual examples:
- I have seen posters claim that the Maggotkin of Nurgle Allegiance ability is near useless, I have experienced a different result and I do think most who claimed that now have a different vision.
- I also have seen posters claim that Legions of Nagash wouldn't be able to get GA Death out of the functional gutter, I now think this opinion changed too.

At the same time I also believe that these aspects who arn't liked actually have lead to the better Age of Sigmar. To give examples again:
- I vocally/loudly have mentioned several times that the Shooting phase in Age of Sigmar was so un-restricted that it lead to the AoS games being focused around them. Moreso in GH2016 but it's still there in GH2017. It dominates the metagame. Those who use it largely (Order) seem upset about the change. Those who largely don't use it (Chaos, Destruction and Death) as a result had a less frequent tournament win as Order had. The notable exceptions: DoT, Kunnin Rukk...
Key to thake away from this is: Age of Sigmar the 2nd edition adresses it. I believe it does so due to the vocal/loud expressions.
- Likewise the first step to a minor dissapointment for many Age of Sigmar players is that several Allegiance abilities boosting certain Summonning options felt unrealistic in use or simply said unpracticle. This is true for Maggotkin of Nurgle (except Bligth Trees) and Blades of Khorne at least but also to a lesser excent the case for Legions of Nagash and more.
Key to thake away from this is: Age of Sigmar the 2nd edition adresses it. I believe it does so due to vocal/loud expressions.
Many more examples could be given here, in regards to unit costs, unit designs and even model availability.

This concern/upset/stress relief isn't made because we hate Age of Sigmar, it's because we love it and want to see it improve. Improvement does not occur when you never question the current design. 

Lastly, I also believe that objective and constructive discussion is good. As far as I knew TGA isn't a longer arm of Games Workshop. I also often question why 'leaks/scans/pictures' that are found on several other forums or sites like Dakkadakka and Bell of Lost Souls can't be posted here. I think you'd be suprised at some customer behaviour at Games Workshop ;) But more importantly allowing some distance between TGA and GW is actually healthier as becomming the long arm of GW. I say this because I've seen some wonderful fan-made productions here in forms of Battletomes, Scenario's, Hinterlands etc. If all of this should have been okayed by GW because it is their IP I am certain it wouldn't excist at all. 

For me the 'forum posting trend' is still simple though:
1) Changes are announced -> 2) Players get stressed -> 3)Vocal/loudly subjective opinions get posted because of stress -> 4)Actual GW product comes out -> 5) Players objectively form opinions -> 6) Constructive discussion can begin -> 7) New changes are announced.
With this in mind it's close to impossible to suddenly see players skip step 2 and 3. It's these steps that arn't ****** unhealthy it just occurs so people come to the realisation of what is actually going on. In many cases happyness doesn't excist out of nothing, it comes from knowing unhappyness and grow towards happyness again. 

Cheers,
 

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15 minutes ago, Killax said:

Well some certainly can join events organized by Games Workshop and get to know more that way. But I am aware that the mod theam offcourse isn't exclusive GW playtesters.

I'll hold my hand up here, I try to get to as many GW held events as I physically can.  Each one involves about ten hours of travelling on public transport and if I travel on my own, I probably don't get much change out of a few hundred pounds once you factor in buses, trains, hotels, food etc etc.  I do this because I personally want to find out the information "from the horses mouth" so to speak.  Subsequently I then try and communicate as much as I possibly can on here - not because I have any ties to GW or I'm anchoring to get close to/something out of GW - but because if I want to know that information I'm sure you guys do too!  Fundamentally it's the same reasons that Ben set up TGA, the hobby is an intrinsic part of our lives and we want to give something back.

49 minutes ago, Killax said:

But more importantly allowing some distance between TGA and GW is actually healthier as becomming the long arm of GW. I say this because I've seen some wonderful fan-made productions here in forms of Battletomes, Scenario's, Hinterlands etc. If all of this should have been okayed by GW because it is their IP I am certain it wouldn't excist at all. 

We've been lucky to have some amazingly talented individuals create custom content and share it with us but I've never felt at any point that TGA is the long arm of GW (we've just not seen much new stuff recently).  At the end of the day Ben has been kind enough to create TGA for us and created some rules that he felt would encourage the community he wanted to build, and in the same way as I expect people to take their shoes off at my front door and not walk dirt over my floors I don't see why we should be surprised that there are rules we might not necessarily be what we'd have implemented if it was our forum.

26 minutes ago, Killax said:

For me the 'forum posting trend' is still simple though:
1) Changes are announced -> 2) Players get stressed -> 3)Vocal/loudly subjective opinions get posted because of stress -> 4)Actual GW product comes out -> 5) Players objectively form opinions -> 6) Constructive discussion can begin -> 7) New changes are announced.

One thing that I'll just highlight here is that 3) all too often can become "Offensively criticise GW and anybody who thinks that 1) might possibly be good for the game".  I'm the newest mod on the team and as @Chris Tomlin said in his post the mods get to see posts that have been hidden - you would seriously not believe what some people think is acceptable to type and that's the whole point of this entire thread.  The mods act as a barrier between the type of posts that none of us want to read and ensures that TGA continues to be a positive and encouraging forum for the entire community.  I'll say this too - it works.  The site rules and mod interaction overall has kept the forum as one of the more positive communities out there.  If you want to rant and use non-family-friendly language, then there's loads of other platforms you can use to scratch that itch and that's cool - many of us need to vent like that (myself included), but it's something we desperately try and avoid here.

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2 hours ago, Durant said:

I assume ,like me you are Polish, (many many sugestions in your post), and if yes then I can't agree with you

Thanks for this Durant. There's been a couple of posters presenting a decidedly negative image which I don't think is reflective of my Polish friends at all, nor of Poland in general! I didn't really think it was my place to argue the point since I'm not Polish myself, but I'm glad somebody who is is speaking up.

11 hours ago, LLV said:

Chaos dwarfs online! I remember that place. In another life they called me exquisite evil, (internet) famous for being the first to make dawi zharr from  crappy skull pass dwarfs!

That was the conversion that got me back into the hobby after the mandatory "beer and girls" break! I bought a skull pass box and a pack of green stuff the day I saw it. That project really helped me through a crumby period. I'll let my wife know she has you to thank for all the minis taking over the house. ;) 

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16 minutes ago, AGPO said:

Thanks for this Durant. There's been a couple of posters presenting a decidedly negative image which I don't think is reflective of my Polish friends at all, nor of Poland in general! I didn't really think it was my place to argue the point since I'm not Polish myself, but I'm glad somebody who is is speaking up.

That was the conversion that got me back into the hobby after the mandatory "beer and girls" break! I bought a skull pass box and a pack of green stuff the day I saw it. That project really helped me through a crumby period. I'll let my wife know she has you to thank for all the minis taking over the house. ;) 

That’s amazing, seems like a lifetime ago, 10-12 years now.  Tell your wife ‘sorry’ lol

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Thanks for the post @Ben. I am also more of a critical poster in this forum. But I still hope that I have always voiced my critique in a constructive way. At moment I don't think any post from be has been banned, so I think that my form of criticism was not too harsh. 

@AGPO So we meet again under this post. ?

But I also have to agree that for some cultures it might not be so easy to spot if they are negative about something for example. I for myself am german and I would say we germans in general are often very direct and very open with criticism. I have to state that not all germans are like this. But I would say that the average german can be described as "critical". And I think some people from different cultures might see some of the statements as an attack against them.

For example, in germany you will often hear that "Americans" or "British people" are often described as "fake-friendly", because in germany the people are often very direct to each other, whereas in America or Britian you would beat around the bush and don't get straight to the point if you want to voice critique on something.

One time I visited the family of an Asian friend and tried everything to be nice and open, because I had known that some Asian cultures focus on good manners and behaving thankful. Later I have been told by my friend that I was rude for asking a certain question on the eating table and other things, which were found to be rude in their culture. Some things I really couldn't understand why they were seen as rude and also wouldn't be seen as rude in germany. So I have to mention that even if you often try your best in being constructive or friendly, you can still make mistakes. So to the people saying it should be common sense on how to react in certain situations, I have to say common sense is different depending on the culture you were born in. Social norms and different behaviour guidelines might be common in some cultures, but in other cultures they might be not. So it is always helpful to give strict and exact guidelines for people.

"Stop being negative" for example is not a good general guideline, because what in one culture might seem negative can be positive in another culture. A good guideline would be for example "Don't swear" or "Don't personally attack people". But even there you often have to define what a "personal attack means and what counts as a swear and whatnot. I wouldn't automatically assume that everyone has a common sense about how to be socially correct. The best would be to strictly and openly define what bad behaviour is and whatnot in my opinion. But this is just my opinion.

But overall I really find it important to bring up this issue, because it always raises awereness about the problem. I still hope that people won't be banned directly if they might voice their opinion the wrong way, because sometimes people don't get or see what they did wrong. I think it always helps if you explain to people why a certain behaviour was negative or toxic. ?

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On 5/29/2018 at 11:44 AM, RuneBrush said:

Not at all, because there's a way of complaining and stating your opinion.  Your post is what I'd class as a great example of clearly stating your opinion and what is allowed encouraged!  You've used quotes and explained everything in a calm and perfectly rational manner.  The words you've used haven't made me angry, upset me, or made me want to be angry back to you :)  To use another (absolutely random this time) example, I like brussel sprouts (controversial I know), I'd not have an issue somebody telling me they didn't like them themselves but would take exception to being told I was a freak for liking them. 

I just do not see those kinds of things happening on these forms (i.e. something analogous to calling someone a freak for liking Brussels sprouts, which makes it feel like maybe there's something else in mind like "be sunshiny about GW at all costs, because the site managers are getting fill-in-the-blank imagined benefit" ;  For example, I feel pretty confident, despite having pulled down some "warning points" in my time here, that I've never said someone was a freak or moron for liking, Disposed Duardin lets say. 

Now, as you mentioned later in this thread, we don't see any posts that get hidden like the mods do, so maybe there's a lot of that going on that I'm blissfully ignorant of, and if that's the case perhaps it would be helpful to have examples of what the problems are; like "People are saying things like A, B, C, and D.  Don't say A, B, C, and D."  If what the population of forum users end up seeing, thanks to the effective modding, is the more "claim and rational" methods you've approved here to register a problem, or some displeasure, or something like that.   Again, I have seen (and may have said) things along the lines of "I don't think the Grundstok Gunhauler has a place in a list with its current points and abilities, and them model isn't as inspired as some other recent GW works" or "Dreadspears should have and their points increased because bleakswords and demonstrably better in all situations than dreadspears, and here's the numbers to prove it."  Or "Beastclaw raiders are an out of date army because GW didn't know what they were doing with allegiance abilities back then and they don't have the tools for objective based play...."  but I've never said, and almost never seen anyone saying "Your a moron for including that gunhauler" or "your stupid because you think Beastclaw raiders have a place in tournaments"  

Circling back, my thought is that when one of these posts go up, a lot of people probably assume its the more visible "GW did not know what they were doing with Beastclaw Raiders because some of the results of their allegiance table are so rarely helpful they're almost useless and they do not have the tools to play in objective based game" or "this is a terrible change to make because history shows that summoning units is notoriously had to balance" that the forum owner/management team has a problem with, and not the less visible (or, after being hidden, invisible) personal attacks against members for having a different opinion, which you've described with your "brussel sprouts" (I like them too by the way!) analogy, and, when people thinks it is a policy about being against the posts that are being constructively critical, or the posts being critical of the game designer (rather than the other humans using the board).    In part because that sort of feels unjust and artificial, but also because with about any hobby like ours part of the territory seems to be people caring enough about the hobby to have strong feelings about changes made, including potentially frustrated feelings when those changes seem unwise.  Imagine the football fan whose team trades a player or makes some player change that seems to be a mistake; he's likely going to continue watching the games and buying a team jersey to wear when they play or whatever, but he's likely to have a chat, online or off, about the bonehead move the team has made.  

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On 5/29/2018 at 1:55 PM, Gaz Taylor said:

100% this

For anybody who has been thinking about censorship, heavy handed moderation or this is going to be far to happy and a yes place, I just need to mention that this is all funded by Ben. If he would like you all to act in a certain way, you should be able to do that. It's like going round somebodies house and asking about taking your shoes off. Some people don't care whilst others want you to remove your shoes ;) 

+++ Mod Hat On +++

Some of you seem to be thinking a bit too hard about what you can or can't post. It's been mentioned several times in this topic and Ben has mentioned it in his first post. Please use a bit of common sense and courtesy but if you are unsure, ask a mod.

Can we please not discuss this any more?

This topic isn't about what you can talk about, censorship or anything like that. It's a gentle reminder that we are all here because we love Warhammer Age of Sigmar. ;) 

 

Five pages in and I am surprised this thread isn't locked.

I totally agree.  It's Ben's train set and rules is rules.   just talk to and behave around others as you would expect to be spoken to and treated in real life. Not difficult really.

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43 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

 

Five pages in and I am surprised this thread isn't locked.

I totally agree.  It's Ben's train set and rules is rules.   just talk to and behave around others as you would expect to be spoken to and treated in real life. Not difficult really.

Totally agree mate, how is there 5 pages of discussion to be had on this! 

99% of these "but now I don't know what I can and can't say" posts are attention-seeking / deliberately having a poke (with the exception of blueshirtman who seems to have genuine issues).

I'm not saying I've been the perfect example of staying chirpy the whole time, but when I do feel like a moan, I try to save it for Twitter.  This is not the platfom for that stuff.

Let's be honest, we're all grown ups here and we all know what Ben is saying.  

It really couldn't be clearer.

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Ben, thanks for the positive, upbeat post. I was kinda done here until I saw the "2+ Tough" guy mention it on his channel, so I came back by. I'm excited about AoS; I can go practically anywhere on the internet and see apoplectic cynics ****** on harmless things. I was hoping that TGA would be a fun place to geek out.

I know that not everybody will be happy with everything, and inevitable change can bring that to the fore. On the other hand, if you have a life where you can play games like AoS, you're having a good life. I'm sure it's not perfect, but I think it's valuable to realize that you're probably living like a king compared to most of the people who have ever lived. So what if they nerf your Terror Toad? Just say it counts as a Doom Hippo and let's roll some dice. It's all just for fun anyways.

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22 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

99% of these "but now I don't know what I can and can't say" posts are attention-seeking / deliberately having a poke

Honestly, I think that's very unfair and myopic. I don't mean that as an insult at all, truly. I am just saying that it sounds like something a person who is not open to other views might say.

I can't point to a single example of what you are saying in this thread, but I can see several examples of people engaging in throught-provoking, curious, and civil discussion of what is and is not acceptable or understood by people in different parts of the world.

 

Frankly, I'm finding this thread to be genuinely insightful and elucidating. Whether Ben meant it to take this turn or not, I thank him for the great conversation this has provoked.

 

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16 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

We've been lucky to have some amazingly talented individuals create custom content and share it with us but I've never felt at any point that TGA is the long arm of GW (we've just not seen much new stuff recently).  At the end of the day Ben has been kind enough to create TGA for us and created some rules that he felt would encourage the community he wanted to build, and in the same way as I expect people to take their shoes off at my front door and not walk dirt over my floors I don't see why we should be surprised that there are rules we might not necessarily be what we'd have implemented if it was our forum.

I completely agree with you that as the owner of TGA Ben has the absolute sole right to steer the forums and indeed the discussions. In that same vein though I do sometimes feel (again) that GW policies are rubbed off on the community, but not in a very clear way.
In responce to Gaz's example of behaviour in GW stores for example. If forum etiquette is set/should be set to that of the etiquette in a Games Workshop store than the only logical conclusion I can draw is that this place can only discuss GW related games, with GW models and GW created content. As before I don't see this as the true power of the forum. Instead I think TGA rose to populairty because it created content that GW initially didn't create or still doesn't. While I could go into many examples again, Hinterlands and Allegiance cards made are good ones who I feel could have been a GW created product but because we arn't in a GW and don't ****** have to abide by IP laws because we don't sell the content. But then allowing for that IP 'conversion' but not allowing for scans of particular GW content strikes me as a contradiction. 
In that same vein, complaining eventually does lead to new design choices for Games Workshop. Things we are unhappy about vocally are changed by Games Workshop. Content created by GW is now openly debatable on Facebook pages and GW even responds to questions/vocal unhappyness. So if anything being vocal about it again has created improvement and thus more happyness. But the path to start this still comes from having a critical note towards Games Workshop or creating content they skipped.

Personally I even came to TGA because I heard through friends that some posted point costs here in the inital phases of Age of Sigmar. Tested rules and actually improved the gameplay. I came here basically because I wasn't content with the initial product GW gave me. I was not happy at the start of Age of Sigmar due to conent missing in the initial design. If I wasn't vocal about that I wouldn't have come to TGA at all. 

16 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

One thing that I'll just highlight here is that 3) all too often can become "Offensively criticise GW and anybody who thinks that 1) might possibly be good for the game".  I'm the newest mod on the team and as @Chris Tomlin said in his post the mods get to see posts that have been hidden - you would seriously not believe what some people think is acceptable to type and that's the whole point of this entire thread.  The mods act as a barrier between the type of posts that none of us want to read and ensures that TGA continues to be a positive and encouraging forum for the entire community.  I'll say this too - it works.  The site rules and mod interaction overall has kept the forum as one of the more positive communities out there.  If you want to rant and use non-family-friendly language, then there's loads of other platforms you can use to scratch that itch and that's cool - many of us need to vent like that (myself included), but it's something we desperately try and avoid here.

In general I completely agree with this part. I can also say that at days I have been guilty of s-posting aswell. Leading to at least 1 infraction point I agree with. 
What I hope, and this works for me also, is that sometimes posters read their reply's before submitting them twice. Roughly 30% of the responces I want to make get deleted afterwards as in many cases it doesn't add to the topic at hand. Which might sound unbelievable with 2K+ posts. I do however think that if everybody will do that the forum will become a better place.

At the same time, changes lead to stress and in general I don't think this will change forum behaviour drastically. As you guys know there is a constant wave of new Age of Sigmar players comming aboard and likely more will come with this new edition. Because newer players usually have less information to reflect upon a lot of those posts tend to be subjective and it's those kinds of posts who can get out of hand quickly. The downside remains that the more GW changes/errata's constantly the more forums will be used as a stress outlet instead of creative platform. 

Lastly, having said that, it might be an idea to contain rules changes discussions onto an open sub-forum. The current format for rules questions and stuff is very different from the regular format and because of that I tend to think that most of those discussions end up here in he general forum discussion which brings out all kinds of posters and players and thus are more likely to collide. 
In general what I believe has worked very well for TGA is that there are Grand Allegiance sub-forums. This means that if Order players think they need to shoot harder the echo chamber will largely be more positive in that sub-forum ;) Likewise if Chaos players think they need to melee harder the echo chamber will largely be more positive in that sub-forum aswell. I still see this as the bread and butter posts of the forums.

Cheers,

 

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1 hour ago, Killax said:

In responce to Gaz's example of behaviour in GW stores for example.

Sigh ?

Really? Okay I’ll use another example. Any shop. If I went into any shop, I would be expected to behave in a certain way (at least in the UK). I don’t care if your local gaming store lets you play in your underwear, common sense tells you that there is a generally accepted way to act in society. That’s what we want here. 

8 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

 

Five pages in and I am surprised this thread isn't locked.

I totally agree.  It's Ben's train set and rules is rules.   just talk to and behave around others as you would expect to be spoken to and treated in real life. Not difficult really.

It’s getting close, trust me. It’s great to see the support but some people seem to be struggling with the concept you have mentioned

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Hey TGA community.

Thanks for the post. I probably feel very close to what Ben does with regards to negativity, so I am happy at least one place tries to keep it at bay. I have almost stopped checking any AoS facebook groups (and consider unjoining them), do not check reddit nor read any comments when GW posts something on their facebook page. I just find the amount of negativity to affect me way more than I would like and I know that if I try to argue it will never make matters betters. In the end, I just avoid it.

I understand others just sift through it without letting it affect you. I understand that some cannot even see it is there. I understand some will have a hard time knowing whether or not they "are negative" or not. I know you are not the problem and most will try to behave. The biggest problem is probably that there is so much negativity on the internet and in discussions that we start not noticing. We start thinking it is normal or "that is just how the internet is".

Thanks Ben for the yearly heads up. Know that at least some appreciate a place where we can talk about Warhammer, without having a great amount of bull thrown around in all discussions.

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Firstly I would like to thank the moderators here, they do a good job, and by the sound of what Chris T says, they are doing way more than we see.

I haven't been using TGA much for the last few months because of the reasons Ben alludes to in his post. I picked up AoS as soon as it came out, and have been on TGA on-and-off since it started, but recently it seems to have become less of a place for people who like to play AoS and more of a place for people who like to argue/complain about AoS. Most of my AoS discussions now happen on the various WhatsApp groups, which are populated with active players who, while they may have a criticism of some aspect or other, are doing so from a point rooted in actual play rather than theorycrafting. It also seems that the nature of WhatsApp causes people to be a little more polite and friendly to each other.

However the WhatsApp groups are pretty insular, with the same people in most groups. I think TGA has a good place in the community as it widens boundaries and brings in more players from different places. However if I am going to go back to reading it regularly it needs to return to being discussions between AoS players, rather than arguing over theoreticals from an armchair without ever actually playing.

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1 hour ago, Gaz Taylor said:

Sigh ?

Really? Okay I’ll use another example. Any shop. If I went into any shop, I would be expected to behave in a certain way (at least in the UK). I don’t care if your local gaming store lets you play in your underwear, common sense tells you that there is a generally accepted way to act in society. That’s what we want here. 

Gaz the point that I am making here is that TGA/any discussion board isn't really a shop (alone) and because of that not all behaviour is the same. So the comparison strikes me as difficult to make. I do understand that there is a store, some awesome dice and shirts are sold but the discussion board or forum in itself is a discussion board. Heated discussions are part of many discussion boards.  

I am totally pro etiquette when it concerns forum behaviour but as said, there are different and conflicting rules about as is. 
- Content fan made, created with GW IP artwork is allowed to be posted. It's an awesome part of the forums as is.
- Content shared from GW (spoilers/scans), e.g. Shadespire cards wern't/arn't allowed to be posted. Why this is the case I don't really know as ultimately it could lead to inform a new player (familiar with GW products) to buy it.
- A critical unhappy post is allowed to be posted but not completely within the etiquette of the forums.
- Critical unhappy posts have however leaded to Games Workshop's game improvement. E.g. their Facebook page which is full of critical notes also and more as not have even lead to articles being changed because of it. Being happy with this improvement is within the etiquette of the forums.
In very short words, I believe it's close to impossible to solely have happy posters and posts. Logic of newcommers balances this out in equal ammounts.

We have come to accept the shortcommings of Games Workshop by embracing errata but we have come to not accept the shortcommings of posters (knowlegde) here? That lack of knowledge of the upcomming edition causes the stress and that lack of insight is created by Games Workshop, sometimes purposefully (current spoilers) and sometimes not (errata/FAQ). I'm a firm believer of accepting but being honest to anyone's shortcommings, be it poster or Games Workshop itself.

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9 minutes ago, Killax said:

Gaz the point that I am making here is that TGA/any discussion board isn't really a shop (alone) and because of that not all behaviour is the same. So the comparison strikes me as difficult to make.

So imagine it's a pub or a restaurant or somewhere you go in public where you need to basically follow the guidelines of how you would act in public. So it's generally accepted in those cases you don't swear, stroll around naked or generally do things like that. Just behave, please!!!!

15 minutes ago, Killax said:

- Content shared from GW (spoilers/scans), e.g. Shadespire cards wern't/arn't allowed to be posted. Why this is the case I don't really know as ultimately it could lead to inform a new player (familiar with GW products) to buy it.

I think you are confused about this. Stuff from the Warhammer Community/GW Facebook is okay. Random scans from Billy Bobbob isn't and the reason for that is because GW want you to see the best pictures of their products so can go round asking sites to remove images. We don't want to get on the bad side of them so choose ideally not to do it (extreme I know). However, the mod team can't be everywhere so somethings will be missed.

18 minutes ago, Killax said:

- A critical unhappy post is allowed to be posted but not completely within the etiquette of the forums.

If you feel that a post is critical or not right and is against the rules, please report it. The mod team will review and action

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22 minutes ago, Killax said:

In very short words, I believe it's close to impossible to solely have happy posters and posts. 

Pretty simple answer to that in Bens opening post (my bold)

Quote

Going forwards I don’t want to be seeing relentless negativity, arguing, name calling and I’ll the other nonsense that has been going on recently.

It has been said numerous times by Mods, being unhappy is fine, just realise that spouting off about it with no context or way to discuss is not welcome.

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