Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
pez5767

Asymmetric Balance... it could work.

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Nothing sucks if your not paying for. it only suck when they are compared to things. 

Right - perhaps the giant is more limited as a result of the rule of one, but he is still equally valued to other models.  A bone giant with caster support comes within 1.5 wounds as the bloodthirster of unfettered fury's damage (including whip).  The thing is the bloodthirster loses effectiveness with damage - the bone giant does not.  Simlarly the slaughterbrute, which is the same cost does almost exactly the same damage (within 1/5 of a wound).  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, we're kind of at an impasse where people don't seem to want to give points a fair shake.  This has been a problem with the community for a very long time.  Things get thrown out before the official release has even occurred.  Before enough games have been played to make an educated decision.


I encourage varied scenarios as should TOs - even ones that create asymmetry.   Here's one I thought up, but have not tested:

'Behind Enemy Lines - Both players secretly write down which units you are sending behind enemy lines to sabotage their efforts excluding generals.  Those units will not be deployed this battle and each player scores victory points equal to the value of the units they send.  The player with the most points removed is considered the defender and will score an addition 200 victory points if their general is still alive at the end of 4 turns.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Nothing sucks if your not paying for. it only suck when they are compared to things. 

Exactly, which is why I'll take then in Open Play, but not play that involves points. 

@daedalus81

I'll try points.   I'll even like points.   I'm just fearful of what it will do to the AoS experience as a whole. 

Edited by Sleboda
Adding on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, daedalus81 said:

So, we're kind of at an impasse where people don't seem to want to give points a fair shake.  This has been a problem with the community for a very long time.  Things get thrown out before the official release has even occurred.  Before enough games have been played to make an educated decision.


I encourage varied scenarios as should TOs - even ones that create asymmetry.   Here's one I thought up, but have not tested:

'Behind Enemy Lines - Both players secretly write down which units you are sending behind enemy lines to sabotage their efforts excluding generals.  Those units will not be deployed this battle and each player scores victory points equal to the value of the units they send.  The player with the most points removed is considered the defender and will score an addition 200 victory points if their general is still alive at the end of 4 turns.'

That looks like an awesome mission there. The asymmetrical missions are normally some of the best. I have been trying to figure out how to do one that is like a general and his bodygaurds last stand. Where the general has to either kill the other general or get to a designated board edge or something. We shall see. I think I'm close on it though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, cranect said:

That looks like an awesome mission there. The asymmetrical missions are normally some of the best. I have been trying to figure out how to do one that is like a general and his bodygaurds last stand. Where the general has to either kill the other general or get to a designated board edge or something. We shall see. I think I'm close on it though.

That's a tough one, because it would force people to take the fastest general that they can.   Maybe something like this:

Cranet's Last Stand - Roll off to determine the defender.  The defender deploys their general and up to 3 units totaling no more than 1,000 points.  The remainder are placed into reserves.  The attacker then deploys more than 18" from any enemy unit.  The defender gets first turn.

The defender's general has a special command ability - Invigorated Reinforcements:  During the hero phase he may choose D3 units from reserves. Those units may enter from any long table edge during the movement phase and can run a full 6" if they choose to do so.

If the defending general comes within 3" of a short table edge then the defender is awarded an additional 200 VP.  If the defending general is slain then the attacker is awarded a major victory.

 

Things like these need lots of testing,  Maybe the attacker should deploy closer, maybe the general should get reinforcements more slowly, etc.  The thought is that the defender has less to work with, but the attacker is effectively split.  You'd also have to consider the effect of summons on something like this.

Edited by daedalus81

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I get home I had a drawn up plan for it since it was a little more complicated deployment wise but it made it feel like they went out a secret tunnel and behind the invading army so there are a few rear gaurd and whatever chased them through the tunnel. I was trying to come up with ideas for a unique tournament I will hopefully test out within the next year and a half since that would give me time to make terrain and the missions and such. It would be a narrative like tournament though so a story would be told through between 3-5 games. At the end whoever got the most points would win. Some missions would favor fast units, some slow, some tanky, etc.... It would depend on luck of the draw sort of for what mission you get. I can't really explain it through text but I drew it out and figured out most of what would be necessary so if I get the missions and such designed ill probably post something on this site for feedback.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For 'balanced" game scenarios it's best to kind of have a pack of scenarios that you randomize between. Scenario's that favor different types of armies, and at least 1 or two that make flat out killing your opponent a little not worth it.

 

I have two scenarios i've created for my league you guys might find interesting.

 

First scenario is on the hunt: (i'll do a simplified version of the rules here)

along with thier deployment players must also set up 4 terrain pieces space x" appart (X is bigger the bigger your game size 2x4 x=10, 4x4 x=20, 6x4 x=30). At the end of your movement phase score 1-3 points randomly for each terrain. Each point can only be scored once, IE if you scored a 1 on your first terrain pieace, the second and third terrain pieces can only possible score 2 or 3. At the start of each turn, if 3 of the 4 terrain pieces have been scored, a beast spawns at the last terrain piece and immediately makes a 3d6 move toward the closest unit. It always goes first in the combat phase, randomize melee targets. First player to slay the beast scores 5 points.

 

Beast profiles: Heals a wound for each wound it causes immediately.

500 points

20 wounds, 3 attacks, 4+ hit, 3+ wound, -2 rend, 2 damage

1000 points

40 wounds, 6 attacks, 4+ hit, 3+ wound, -2 rend, 2 damage

2000 points

60 wounds, 8 attacks, 4+ hit, 3+ wound, -2 rend, 2 damage

Major victory for 3 more points than you opponent, minor for 1-3 more points than you opponent.

Games are quick with this scenario as the beast usualy spawn turn 2 or 3 at best, and is dead by turn 3 or 4. Rarely the beast wont die in which case the original first points matter.

 

Crowd goes wild scenario: This one is super simple

At the start of each hero phase randomly select one of your units. The crowd is cheering for them unit your next hero phase. Score a point for every enemy unit slain by this unit, and your opponent scores a point if they slay this unit.  Minor victory for 1 point more than opponent, major victory for 2 or more.

 

The first beast game can be ended so quickly, that out right trying to table your opponent might not be worth doing as he can pull the victory from under your nose before you take him out. The second sencario favors armys like stormcast who don't reply too much on lots of buffs, but each individual unit is good on their own, but doesn't rule out just tabling your opponent, randomizing between these two you can get a since of balance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya I will probably try running a tournament in about 2 months where how you do in each battle determines what scenario you go to. There would only be 8 people due to space so a good first starting point. The first game was going to be the week one scenario from the season of war here. Then if you won it was going to The Wild Hunt. If you lost you would go to Noble Sacrifice. From the wild hunt if you win it goes to storm the walls. If you lose it goes to A Twist of Fate. For the noble sacrifice if you win it goes to Death in the Darkness. If you lose it goes to a custom Generals Last Stand that some of us will try to balance out here until the tournament. I have to figure out points for things like in the trials of the oighear that gw did since I thought that was pretty cool. This is my take on a narrative style tournament to give everyone their own semi unique story through the games. That way not everyone has the same 3 missions. It could be interesting I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...