Faction Focus - Pointless Speculation

[Skabnoze]

@PlasticCraic I agree that you should be able to stack command abilities, but I don't think you should be able to stack the same thing.  That probably means making sure that abilities are each named distinctly and then not allowing stacking of the same name.  To me that also means taking most abilities that do the same thing and naming them the same or else changing them to do different things.  Others may disagree and thats fine.

But I don't think they intend for people to be able to do things like give +4/5/6/... attacks to multiple units in a bubble.  That just seems like it is creeping into the absolutely ridiculous territory.  

[PlasticCraic]

9 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

@PlasticCraic I agree that you should be able to stack command abilities, but I don't think you should be able to stack the same thing.  That probably means making sure that abilities are each named distinctly and then not allowing stacking of the same name.  To me that also means taking most abilities that do the same thing and naming them the same or else changing them to do different things.  Others may disagree and thats fine.

But I don't think they intend for people to be able to do things like give +4/5/6/... attacks to multiple units in a bubble.  That just seems like it is creeping into the absolutely ridiculous territory.  

That's reasonable.  I'd find pretty it frustrating if they reworded the CAs to be identical and gave us nothing in return - that would just be pushing us further and further behind the more developed factions, with their array of sexy and fun combos.

But if they change the existing CAs to do something else instead of just stacking more and more attacks, I would be fine with it (prefer it even...less one-dimensional and more fun).

[Skabnoze]

I agree whole-heartedly that we don't need a ton of redundant abilities on different characters.

[Richelieu]

2 hours ago, Superninja said:

GW needs to give Destruction a ton more options.  Stormcast pretty much have more options than an entire grand alliance. sad.

I agree.  I actually think Idoneth Deepkin should have been destruction.  Their lore fits.  Raiding for souls is no different than raiding for meat (ogors).

I'm a stormcast player and I'm not even that interested in most of the new stuff.  At some point there are just too many units that do the same thing.  I think it's the first AoS misstep GW has made in over a year.

[Imperial]

12 hours ago, svnvaldez said:

I'm hoping for 400 so I can use him as an ally

I think no chance at all...  410-420

[Oreaper84]

So its confirmed that command abilities are gunna need a resource....command points. With that out there i think that they will rule of 1 this but since its a finite resource i still think different named CA's (mega boss vs MC) will stack. I also like the additional buff to battalions...now only if they were a weeee bit cheaper......

[broche]

yep just read the article! I must admit i love it, they kept it simple. With bataillion giving extra command point, i'm not so sure they will get point reduction though.

I really like inspiring presence to be reactive. 

[Skabnoze]

I am not overly sold on the new system.  I hope there is something more than stack battalions for the extra points.  A lot of armies have terrible battalions or even none at all.  Some have great ones that let you get everything you already want.

I hope they at least rework and recost the battalions.  I like the concept of battalions, just not their cost and the execution in the destruction armies.  It really sucks for anyone running a force that has to use a grand alliance. 

Hello grots - sucks to be you with your 0 battallions...

[Skabnoze]

I like that Inspiring Presence is used in the battleshock phase, so you can use it exactly when you would need it.  But, it is going to suck for armies like Grots since you only get it for just that phase at the cost of 1 command point rather than until your next hero phase like it works now.  

But, always wait till you see the full picture before casting judgement.  The new system could be good, or it could also kick armies while they are already down.

[svnvaldez]

Only because this thread is called Pointless Speculation but do we thing generals will have to use command points to activate their command ability. I’m leading towards yes after today’s preview.

There’s a twist, however – to use any of your command abilities, you’ll need a new resource, known as command points. 

I think command abilities will be used more like 1 turn bombs of abilities rather than infinite stacks of + attacks like we have been speculating. For an army like my kunning rukk I would expect to be using the bosses proc ability most turns like I do now  but then burning a few points on IP or +1 attack on some stabbas/boars from a greenskinz boss ally.

[svnvaldez]

4 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

armies like Grots

Honestly there is no such thing as a Grot army. There are Ironjawz, BCR, Bonesplitterz and Mixed Destruction, grots don't even have allegiance abilities in GH2. Im going to be a little salty but I am sick of people holding on to the past of 8th and not moving forward to the Age of Sigmar. I would like to see much of the old finecast models, such as chariots, snotlings,  pump wagon and war machines that are keyword Gitmob moved to a legends pdf and retired from matched play.  I own all of these models, I know it sucks, but they don't fit with the current narrative or aesthetic.

4 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

The new system could be good, or it could also kick armies while they are already down.

Grots will get their day again but it will not be in the form a lot of older players are hoping for imo. We will either get a LoN book with only units that are mostly plastic like Trolls, Giants, Spiderfang, Gutbusters, Greenskinz (By my count only Soulblight and a few characters are fine cast in the LoN book) or they will be re imagined like they did with KO, Fryeslayers and the Aelfs (which they will do for Moonclan).

You can always ally in 400 points of your favorite units into an army with allegiance abilities. Imo GH2 was targeted at the old guard, giving many legacy armies abilities (mostly order), and promoting hordes of units. They tried to make the old guard happy with GH2, I don't think it worked and they will swing back towards a 40k style of game with GH3.

 

[Oreaper84]

Svnvaldez i think you are partially right, of course i have no actual knowledge...but to me i think they will get the most bang for the least investment. Moonclan and spiderfang i think will get a huge reboot but i don't know that there is a redoubled future for a lot of other things largely because even in current state they can be used and function relatively ok. Are they competitive....no....but GW has been all about what sells models and breaths life into the game. Lets face it everyone already has their greenskins, common grots, and such....if you wanna play them by all means do, but as an ally. I think it would actually take MORE effort to compendium them than it would to leave them as is.

What i am waiting for is the NEW HOTNESS that GW will release for destro all to soon. A brand new concept for our faction needs to happen soon (Jawz got new models but black orcs have been around forever so they don't count). What form the takes either ifrite/djinn ogres or sky pirate grots....who knows but i cant wait to see em. In the meantime ill happily bring 2-4 lobbas for artillery support for my jaws.

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, svnvaldez said:

Honestly there is no such thing as a Grot army. There are Ironjawz, BCR, Bonesplitterz and Mixed Destruction, grots don't even have allegiance abilities in GH2. Im going to be a little salty but I am sick of people holding on to the past of 8th and not moving forward to the Age of Sigmar. I would like to see much of the old finecast models and war machines that are keyword Gitmob moved to a legends pdf and retired from matched play.  I own all of these models, I know it sucks, but they don't fit with the current narrative or aesthetic.

If they don't exist as armies then they should not have been included with matched play points.  But they were, and so they are real things.  In addition, the sub-allegiances for Grots DO have rules and a purpose.  They do not have specific allegiance abilities, but playing with those sub-allegiances does alter your army composition rules - which means those allegiances do indeed have a purpose.  Gitmob, Greenskinz, Gutbusters, Moonclan, and Spiderfang allegiances all have rules to swap certain specialty troops into core troops.  That means that YES there is such a thing as a Grot army - in fact there are 3 of them.

I am not holding onto 8th edition.  I am playing within the framework of Age of Sigmar.  Also, they changed what some of those forces were.  Spiderfang is effectively something new.  Forest Goblins have not existed as a fully playable force since 5th edition.  In fact, Forest Goblins disappeared entirely from Warhammer Fantasy for 6th edition.  They were fully omitted from that army book.  In 7th they brought back just the single Forest Goblin Spider Rider cavalry unit and nothing else (because they made a plastic kit and put it in the Battle for Skulls Pass box set).  Then in 8th they added back the Hero on Giant spider and put out the Arachnarok kit. 

But the all-spider army and the little bit of lore that they currently have is all new to Age of Sigmar.  I like a lot of what they are doing with Age of Sigmar.  I actually began playing Warhammer many moons ago with the Undead - when they were one single army book led by Nagash (he disappeared from the game for close to 20 years).  What drew me to that army was Skeletons, Wights, Wraiths, Necromancers, and Liches.  I dropped the army when they decided to spend 15+ years all about vampires.  I am stupidly excited that they just made Wraiths into a full blown faction.  I also love that Nagash is back and bigger than ever.

If you want to say that I am hung up on the Warhammer Old World then I would argue that Games Workshop themselves is just as enamored with their past.  They are pulling all sorts of ideas back from when the Old World was wilder and less gritty and bringing it back into the game.  They are heavily playing the Old is New again game.  Last night I pulled my old army books out of the garage and flipped through them for a few editions to see how things changed.  I was really surprised at some of the lore in the old books that I had not looked at in years that was there.  For example, in the 4th/5th edition Orcs & Goblins book they detail the traditional Night Goblins love of fungus and talk about the Shaman.  What surprised me was there was a big emphasis on how the shaman eat so many mushrooms that they start to grow in their bodies and they eventually turn into giant mushrooms.  That lore went away in editions after that when the game moved into a bit more serious of a direction.  I now direct your attention to the new Fungus Shaman Herald - who is straight out of those couple of paragraphs published in 1993.

Every single army in this game has a direct link to the Old World in some way.  If GW wanted this stuff to go away then they should have simply done away with it.  They did not.  So there is absolutely nothing wrong with me (or anyone else) enjoying goblins and wanting to see the direction that they take the stuff they kept around.  I also happen to buy new stuff they make.

[Warboss Gorbolg]

I'm in agreement with some others and believe that Moonclan and Spiderfang will be expanded into their own battletomes. I can see Gitmob eventually going away, or at a minimum being reimagined from the ground up. Moonclan and Spiderfang can just be expanded, where Gitmob really needs a reboot.

 I could also see Greenskinz taking over the war machine theme from Gitmob. Greenskinz seem here to stay since they've had a Start Collecting from the beginning, and they continue to be one of the relatively few factions you can buy in a GW store that hasn't been redone for AOS yet. The most obvious option for Greenskinz expansion that I can think of is for them to evolve up the technology curve from IJ and Bonesplitterz, hence why they may take war machines from Gitmob.

Honestly aside from Grot sky pirates, I would love to see Gitmob evolve into the traveling, trading Jawa types described in 8th edition. Replace the wolves with something more fantastical and give them a couple of big "vehicles ".

[Malakree]

I wouldn't be surprised to see more allegiance abilities in the new gbh like the previous. 

The new abilities were all a big hit latest time irrelevant of their power level. They've had a year to sit down and generate them for armies like Moonclan and Gutbusters. 

In terms of effort required to payout they are amazingly positive, potentially getting people to revive old armies without needing to do a big release event or design new models.

That's doubly true since they don't have cards/tomes so altering warscrolls is just changing them online.

[michu]

Well, most rules will be in the new main rulebook, so there should be more space in GHB2018 for Allegiance Abilities.

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see more allegiance abilities in the new gbh like the previous. 

The new abilities were all a big hit latest time irrelevant of their power level. They've had a year to sit down and generate them for armies like Moonclan and Gutbusters. 

In terms of effort required to payout they are amazingly positive, potentially getting people to revive old armies without needing to do a big release event or design new models.

That's doubly true since they don't have cards/tomes so altering warscrolls is just changing them online.

The GHB 2017 feels to me like they got really excited about making Allegiance abilities, but by the time they got to destruction factions they were just really tired and decided to call it a day.

[svnvaldez]

11 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

The GHB 2017 feels to me like they got really excited about making Allegiance abilities, but by the time they got to destruction factions they were just really tired and decided to call it a day.

They had to be under the impression that GH2 would last longer than it did (say November of this year) and LoN and a Destruction style LoN book would have been released. I think the reason you didn't see Deathrattle is they knew it would be outdated with LoN.  Just like Gutbusters, Greenskinz, etc would be in a new Destruction LoN book. 

I think there were some serious behind the scene changes this last year and it moved the release schedule of AoS 2.0 and GH3 up. Only explanation I have for the silliness of why Destruction was hit so hard with only IJ in GH2.

[Skabnoze]

Thats fair, but even the IronJawz allegiance feels a bit like they just ran out of steam because it is basically the Grand Alliance with a couple extra small additions.

I expect that you are right about the behind the scenes rules changes.  It sounds from some of the recent interviews that the art and model team decides the release schedule in terms of what armies will be worked on and the rules team jumps in once there is a known range of models to work with.