AoS 2e previews

[Sception]

1 hour ago, Ashtyn said:

Its not legion locked at all. You can take it in night but you just have to take Manfred.

Meh, id argue discouraged to the point that it might as well be locked, but tbh this particular complaint is basically resolved with the option to buy command points.

[Wraith01]

I'll use the new mechanics once the New Core Rules book and Generals Handbook 2018 come out.  But I'm pretty sure I'll stick to the old rules when I introduce the game to new players. More rules to remember aren't necessarily a good thing, specially when introducing the game to people who are new to War-games. Then again maybe once the books finally come out it'll be much smoother and better than what we are seeing with this trickle of information.

[Arael_Greywings]

2 hours ago, Wraith01 said:

I'll use the new mechanics once the New Core Rules book and Generals Handbook 2018 come out.  But I'm pretty sure I'll stick to the old rules when I introduce the game to new players. More rules to remember aren't necessarily a good thing, specially when introducing the game to people who are new to War-games. Then again maybe once the books finally come out it'll be much smoother and better than what we are seeing with this trickle of information.

Do you guys think it will really be two seperate books?

[EMMachine]

4 hours ago, Arael_Greywings said:

Do you guys think it will really be two seperate books?

After the Generals Handbook will get a new book every year and the rulebook should stay the same multiple years, it wouldn't make much sense combining these books.

[RuneBrush]

6 hours ago, Wraith01 said:

I'll use the new mechanics once the New Core Rules book and Generals Handbook 2018 come out.  But I'm pretty sure I'll stick to the old rules when I introduce the game to new players. More rules to remember aren't necessarily a good thing, specially when introducing the game to people who are new to War-games. Then again maybe once the books finally come out it'll be much smoother and better than what we are seeing with this trickle of information.

I think the new rules may be easier to learn as you won't be needing to refer/remember FAQs.  Time will tell in fairness, I know to get into the game now is a bit of a pain due to having bits strewn about in various downloadable resources.

4 hours ago, Arael_Greywings said:

Do you guys think it will really be two seperate books?

Very much so.  It was confirmed at WH Fest last weekend that we're going to get a rulebook (containing the core rules) and a new Generals Handbook.  I do expect there to be a quick reference sheet with the core rules on available within GW stores though so I think from a practical point of view that's all you're going to need to play a game.

[Sception]

Magic article is up.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/22/22nd-may-magic-casting-and-unbindinggw-homepage-post-2/

Doesn't cover the new endless/predatory stuff.  Instead, we see nerfs to arcane bolt (only one mortal wound unless the casting roll is 10+), and mystic shield us re-roll ones instead of +1 save.  Also, unbinding range goes to 30", and each realm you might fight in comes with an expanded spell selection.

A mixed bag, but not too bad for LoN.  Less base damage from arcane bolt, but we have access to multiple casting boosts to get that d3 damage back more eadily, and opponents will have a harder time picking off our heroes with it.  The new mystic shield is weajer, and that sucks for first cohort lists that used it to give nagasu a 2+ rerollable, but we'll have to deal with less of that from others, which is nice guven out relatively poor rend overall, and the new version works for ethereals, so that'll be nice for the new nighthaunt units and casters,

Between our options for improved casting and dispel rolls, the extended dispel range is less of a problem for us and we'll have an easier time shuttingbdown most opponents, with tzeentch being an obvious exception.  Realm based spell options sound fun.

[GeneralZero]

so many things and combos to discover: more than 50 spells...

More of this, that imply that you have to play and move your wizzards/necro/magicians activelly (read: offensively) to use spells or to have a chance to unbind...

I like that: your heros have more and more weight and influence in your game. I say: +++++

[kenshin620]

Is there going to be faction locked spell lores like WFB? I just don't see a necromancer using lore of light even if they're in the realm of light. On the other hand, would Death armies gain specific bonuses to cast for Lore of Death?

[Sception]

Faction sprlls are in battletomes.  No mention of new lores for factions that dont have tomes, or have old tomes from befefore they were doing faction spell lores.

Only new spells mentioned in this article are endless & predatory spells (the spells with their iwn midels from an uocoming magic expansion, presumably not part of 2e core rules, these were mentioned but not described in any detail), and realm based spells, same as the rules for playing in particular realms currently grant wizards extra spells based on the realm's particular magic, only now more of them.

The articke makes it sound like access to these spelks is still based on where your army is fighting in a particular game, not where they come from, so they're not a reliable part of listbuilding.

[jobume]

Nagash really takes a hit from the new Mystic Shield. It's harder to justify a 800 point investment if you can't properly protect it. But on the other hand, Nagash is pretty happy with the 30" unbind. Maybe it will even out.

[Drujeful]

1 minute ago, jobume said:

Nagash really takes a hit from the new Mystic Shield. It's harder to justify a 800 point investment if you can't properly protect it. But on the other hand, Nagash is pretty happy with the 30" unbind. Maybe it will even out.

Yeah, Nagash's command ability covers what the new Mystic Shield would do. So I suppose he could just use that extra spell slot to cast a realm-specific spell or maybe one of the new endless spells? Hopefully with all of the new magic they're releasing with 2e, Nagash will have something to protect himself with.

[Sception]

Realm specofic spells and increased unbinfing range both help nagash.  first cohort still offers a lot of protection, and he's not exactly squishy to start.  We'll have to see if it's enough,  remember that there's no shooting out of melee now (though how exactly that works is yet yo be previewed), so you might be able to reduce incoming fire against him more proactively.

[Drujeful]

3 minutes ago, Sception said:

remember that there's no shooting out of melee now (though how exactly that works is yet yo be previewed), so you might be able to reduce incoming fire against him more proactively.

Just throw a bunch of skeletons around to try and keep shooting threats from being able to shoot while throwing a million spells at everyone from behind your screen. I think that would work alright.

[ledha]

37 minutes ago, Drujeful said:

Just throw a bunch of skeletons around to try and keep shooting threats from being able to shoot while throwing a million spells at everyone from behind your screen. I think that would work alright.

The Look Out Sir ! rules won't work on guys like Nagash

[Sception]

LoS won't help, but we're talking about engaging shooting units with melee units, since in 2e you 'won't be able to shoot out of melee'.  What exactly that means isnt clear (maybe units in melee can't shoot, maybe they can only shoot units they're engaged with, the actual rule text hadnt been previewed), but regardless the ability to tie shooty units up may be enough to offset the loss of mystic shield?  Maybe?  A little bit?

[WoollyMammoth]

Neferata comes along with Nagash, now makes him 3+ immune to rend, re-rolling 1s. Use Neferatas command alongside  Nagash and you have -1 to hit if you try to get near them.

Nagash can go with Arkhan and have 9" Hand of Dust while maintaining his key reroll 1s/immune to battleshock command.  

Neferata on her own can be 4+ immune to rend re-rolling 1, making her save much better. This also goes for the entire Nighthuant army.

30 arrowboys can easily get charged by some 60 point wolves and negate their shooting through the next turn. 

Nagash can still heal 2-12 wounds per turn while negating 66% of all wounds and mortal wounds in the First Cohort battalion.

30" unbind might be nice for a LoC, but how about a guy with +3 to unbind and 8 attempts per turn? Bolt might have gotten nerfed, but Nagash is going to have 7 realm spells per game along with the presistent/roaming stuff. A fully revamped magic phase might have some benefits for a god of magic. 

And we haven't even gotten a death preview yet. Maybe Nagash gets a point discount or something.

Nagash & Death is looking real good in the new edition.

[Richelieu]

5 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Nagash & Death is looking real good in the new edition

I agree.  I'm actually quite apprehensive about facing them, which I do very frequently since a member of my gaming club plays death.  I am excited that we're looking at a whole new strategic landscape though. 

[Nevar]

I am pleased they added Look Out Sir, although I have to admit I would have preferred something closer to the current 40k character targeting rules.

This new LoS is better than when there was nothing, but the way it is handled in 40k really makes it important how you move and place your models and where you take casualties from.  This LoS does add an element of that into AoS 2.0, though I wish they would have gone farther.  There might be a limited number of shooting units in the game... but I seem to face them all regularly, especially since they thought it was a good idea to load up the Storm Casts with all manner of 'not-bolters'.

[ZaelART]

As someone who is just getting into Death, I'm really enjoying reading these little impact analyses, thanks for the effort!

[CoffeeGrunt]

The 40K Character Targeting rules have been a bit of a mess though. They've had to repeatedly errata them as there's so many exploits possible with them. 

[GeneralZero]

I am also new to death but I can clearly see that in this AoS 2, the heros and , more important, the wizzards will have a bigger role in the strategy and the battle: unbinding is a long range "spell", but offensive spells seem to have a closer range. You'll have to think and move your heros, protect them.  I am really happy with that.

(especially with our armies full of wizzy boys! necro necro necro hahahaha)

[Nevar]

5 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

The 40K Character Targeting rules have been a bit of a mess though. They've had to repeatedly errata them as there's so many exploits possible with them. 

I agree with you completely, I just don't think this new LoS is enough to prevent constant hero sniping.  I think GW under estimates how many ranged units there are, and in addition since it is not a 'targeting' rule it still seems possible to target heroes with spells from amid the enemy lines.

Beast Claw raiders have an ability that deals 6 flat mortal wounds on a 2+ at 18".  That is pretty much all buffing heroes and wizards deleted on a 2+.  Unless there is some kind of LoS for spells, that means all manner of abilities like this will continue to just flick out our heroes.

Still though, this LoS is better than nothing.

[Honk]

With the new shooting rules, I might invest a little bit more in bats...to fly up to those backyard snipers (or fell bats)

[kenshin620]

26 minutes ago, Honk said:

With the new shooting rules, I might invest a little bit more in bats...to fly up to those backyard snipers (or fell bats)

If other factions can have competent classic models (ex: nurgle harbinger of decay) why can't LoN!

 

Well they are still pretty ugly. And razorwing proxies are really expensive! Theres always zombicide crow swarms if you're allowed non GW stuffs (15 bases for $20? yes please).

[michu]

Or GW Giant Bats from Hobbit.