AOS Background : Retcons ?

[HorticulusTGA]

Hello - first thread

Beyond the change in tone and approach to the more recent AOS fluff (mostly 2017-2018), I'm sure many of you noticed some "retcons" in the "up-to-date" fluff, starting with January Maggotkin of Nurgle Battletome : 

1. Nurgle Lord Gutrot Spume does not come from Norsca anymore, but from a coastal village in Ghyran (unlike the Glottkin, still said to be from the World-that-was). 

2. The Brimstone Peninsula isn't anymore attached to the Ashlands in the Flameworlds sub-realm of Aqshy (from Godbeasts), but is now set in the Great Parch, on the continent called Khul's Ravage (see attachment). 

I quite like those changes I found for the better, as Spume is now well established in AOS with notably Plague Garden, and his "screen time" in WFB was short. I also vastly prefer the Great Parch and existant Mortal Realms cosmology than the more vague and often contradictory one found in the initial fluff. 

Also, the Brimstone Peninsula map itself (from the first AOS "main book", and from Quest for Ghal Maraz)  is not invalidated, it's the Godbeasts one that isn't valid anymore. We just need to know where the Solar Drake Ignax was in fact really held chained before being freed (as it's still official fluff, reading the timeline on the MP website). 

My questions (I guess, mostly for the narrative players and hobbyists  ) : 

- What do you think of those changes ?

- Have you spotted other "retcons" like those two ?

(P.-S. ; I guess we'll see more of those, as this year was already rich on new and expanded background (Malign Portents, DoK and Idoneth stuff about Slaanesh, etc.), and promises to be even richer with the new Core Book 200 pages of fluff and later the AOS RPG). 

[shinros]

Well anything that brings order to the setting I approve on. Now we have to remember a lot of the new models like Gutrot was made for AOS in mind. Majority of the 8th releases were for AOS. Hence the change does not bother me in the slightest. Gutrot barely made an appearance in WHFB. 

One thing I want to point out that the "world map" of Ashqy is not really a world map, it's just a tiny spec in the realm sphere. So the sense of scale is massive, in context the stuff we see in the Brimstone Peninsula is so small in the grand scheme of things. 

Now on the tone change? I believe it makes sense, think about it the start of the setting the enemy was clear to the stormcasts and the forces of order. It was like a crusade. Now that cities are being established we are starting to see the cracks and failings in order. So the more "grim" aspects are not forced in my opinion but naturally progressed to that area because chaos is changing strategy. It's why Tzeentch is growing so much. 

[Ashendant]

1 hour ago, shinros said:

Well anything that brings order to the setting I approve on. Now we have to remember a lot of the new models like Gutrot was made for AOS in mind. Majority of the 8th releases were for AOS. Hence the change does not bother me in the slightest. Gutrot barely made an appearance in WHFB. 

One thing I want to point out that the "world map" of Ashqy is not really a world map, it's just a tiny spec in the realm sphere. So the sense of scale is massive, in context the stuff we see in the Brimstone Peninsula is so small in the grand scheme of things. 

Now on the tone change? I believe it makes sense, think about it the start of the setting the enemy was clear to the stormcasts and the forces of order. It was like a crusade. Now that cities are being established we are starting to see the cracks and failings in order. So the more "grim" aspects are not forced in my opinion but naturally progressed to that area because chaos is changing strategy. It's why Tzeentch is growing so much. 

I found this and as it can be seen, they geographically share no markers. 

[Ollie Grimwood]

Well Map making is fairly tricky and not something I’d expect the Bloodbound to do much of so its not surprising the Stormcast would refine their maps over time. 

I think we can assume the original Spume died in the The Endtimes so its understandable the new one is from Gyran and not the same bloke. The Glotkin were specifically stored away by Nurgle for later following the events of The Endtimes Glotkin so it’s perfectly acceptable they are the same dudes from TWtW

[shinros]

9 minutes ago, Ashendant said:

I found this and as it can be seen, they geographically share no markers. 

As ollie said they must of refined the maps over time. But to go back in terms of scope check out this image. What we are seeing is a small patch and I personally love that. 

[PJetski]

The realms are literally made of magic so it wouldnt be too shocking if geography changed over time... especially with gods and wizards battling constantly

[Ashendant]

22 hours ago, shinros said:

As ollie said they must of refined the maps over time. But to go back in terms of scope check out this image. What we are seeing is a small patch and I personally love that. 

I don't think this is a matter of refinement, but a blatant retcon. The Brimstone Peninsula is no longer found in the Scarred Isle or the Flameworlds and has been transplanted into the Great Parch. None of the features that surround the Brimstone Peninsula in Godbeasts, like the Isle of the Chained Sun, Asphyxia or the Glowing Glacier can be found on the Great Parch map.

[chord]

8 minutes ago, Ashendant said:

I don't think this is a matter of refinement, but a blatant retcon. The Brimstone Peninsula is no longer found in the Scarred Isle or the Flameworlds and has been transplanted into the Great Parch. None of the features that surround the Brimstone Peninsula in Godbeasts, like the Isle of the Chained Sun, Asphyxia or the Glowing Glacier can be found on the Great Parch map.

Good catch ...and very disappointing for those that liked the high fantasy stuff.

[HorticulusTGA]

16 hours ago, chord said:

Good catch ...and very disappointing for those that liked the high fantasy stuff.

Even if I can understand the disappointment, I think GW absolutely aren't deleting the high fantasy tone in the setting, just making things more coherent, more grounded.

If you check the Flamscar Plateau map, or the Free Cities artworks for example it's still pretty high fantasy, but in a more gritty, realistic way - the scope is still epic, magical and quite huge.

[AGPO]

I'm not against retcons, plenty of WFB and 40K have been retconned multiple times. Guilleman used to be a general who was 'promoted' to primarch. What I do hope is that it's done neatly, so that Godbeasts and other Realmgate Wars fluff is updated rather than invalidated.

[offroadfury]

Its gonna take more than a couple retcons to make AoS anything but pure high fantasy

[Requete]

It's only a retcon if there's no explanation. I wouldn't be surprised if the topography of the Mortal Realms changes from time to time for various reasons. And how long has it been between the Realmgate Wars and the Malign Portents? It could be a while.

 

[Greyshadow]

Good spot. We the players love attention to detail. Some of us, me included, have set campaigns in particular areas. Hopefully, the lore masters at GW have done their research and produce new material that fits with what has come before. I am keeping my fingers crossed for an Amber Steppes map in Ghur.

[HorticulusTGA]

6 hours ago, Requete said:

It's only a retcon if there's no explanation. I wouldn't be surprised if the topography of the Mortal Realms changes from time to time for various reasons. And how long has it been between the Realmgate Wars and the Malign Portents? It could be a while.

The opening of the Gates of Azyr --> Malign Portents is more or less 100 years (from Spear of Shadows).

It must be said that what happened between the Godbeasts and  the Core Book 2nd Ed. maps is that it is not the Realms evolving ("inside" the fluff), it's clearly a real retcon by the writers "from outside" the narrative.

Because the center of each Mortal Realms (like the Great Parch in Aqshy) is more stable, not prone to change and mutate like lands at the Realm's Edge.