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Age of Sigmar: Second Edition


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It seems that death will be top tier, no matter what.

summoning, magic, cheap and efficient battleline, hard hitter and flying, everything is in death.  I like it because there is no, absolutely NO other faction which can have all of  this and make it to your own playstyle. Except SCE (well, we have to see their magic but I'm confident it'll be  (super) ok as the main AoS faction).

 

All other faction need  soup, alllies or not fluffy tricks

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2 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

Ok. This is where this forum fails on the panic/running around/navel gazing and general misinformation fuelled by GW’s drip fed updates on what the new edition may or may not look like. 

I went into a GW store this morning and while the manager says such updates are exciting for gamers he concluded that gamers in forums end up tearing their hair out over interpretation and rumour.

The new rule book isn’t out yet, but there are some here who are running around ‘like wet hens’. We assume a great deal.

But you know what ‘assume’ does.

Shall we calm down now?

Saying "free summoning and bring back dead units for free" doesn't leave much place to interpretation honestly

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Just now, Mcthew said:

Ok. This is where this forum fails on the panic/running around/navel gazing and general misinformation fuelled by GW’s drip fed updates on what the new edition may or may not look like. 

I went into a GW store this morning and while the manager says such updates are exciting for gamers he concluded that gamers in forums end up tearing their hair out over interpretation and rumour.

The new rule book isn’t out yet, but there are some here who are running around ‘like wet hens’. We assume a great deal.

But you know what ‘assume’ does.

Shall we calm down now?

When you can show me one instance in the history of GWs tenure where a rule change this massive didn't completely break at least one army, then sure.

This isn't baseless nonsense, it doesn't matter if there's more to it. Summoning with free points has destroyed multiple editions of 3 different game systems GW has released. They've never gotten it right, they're never going to get it right, and it's frustrating that they're even trying.

This is the same company that tried and failed to fix the balewind vortex THREE times. This is going to be bad and it's going to be bad for a good long time.

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So far I'm just laughing at the prospect of Lord of Changes summonning new Lord of Changes. Alternatively turning 8x 10 Marauders into Archaon.

Thing is really that free summonning can be neat if it's actually not free but restricted in a way. At least for Matched Play this wouldn't directly turn the game into dissaray (again).

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12 minutes ago, ledha said:

So, Death will be able to bring units back FOR FREE.

Well, as has been pointed out, Endless Legions is a command ability and so will presumably cost command points, so not really "free."

It's also counterable with all that "within 9" of a gravesite but not within 9" of an enemy unit" business. I don't see this is as any more or less powerful than the other summoning mechanics we've read about or heard rumored.

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36 minutes ago, Xasz said:

TBH, I'm convinced "free" summoning is impossible to implement in a tabletop and many other formats.

I hope I'm wrong but I have the feeling that there will be a very obnoxious summoning list after the dust settles.

There can never be a middle-ground in that matter, either it is just too good to pass on or so bad no one touches it.

Other games have gotten no-points summoning to work. Malifaux for example. Things can be balanced with more than just points costs. For factions that focus on summoning, they can be heavily limited in different ways, lack of shooting, poor magic or combat ability, slow moving units, less or weaker traits and abilities, and/or having their units be slightly weaker than they should be for their points. It also has to be taken into account, the the less time a unit spends on the table, the less value it typically has.

The question then becomes, will GW balance it appropriately as above?

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If only there was a resource required to summon. Something that had a significant opportunity cost. Maybe it could be mutually exclusive with other ways of boosting your armys power, like Command Abilities and Artifacts?

Nah, that's too far-fetched. We've already seen 0% of the actual rules, we should just keep making assumptions and continue to have a baseless panic

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3 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

Funny you say that, because I actually was made to start a hobby and interaction with people by my doctor, to avoid being sent to an institution. But A no one plays narrative here, B I don't talk to people more then I have to C I don't know how and where this would suppose to be played. Outside events have to pay the store owner for non store events held at the store, either by buying a pool of prizes, starter armies or pay for the table time. Considering I have zero social skills, starting stuff is not something I could do. I probablly do not want to do it too. Although am never sure of such stuff.

I do hope so. I do worry though, that they are made out of old models, and everyone at my store says that old armies are not going to be updated and that GW is going to buff only armies with new models.

Do people think that in 2.0 GW is going to change points cost of units or battalions, or will this happen later with the general hand book?

That is a fair amount of restrictions in terms of what you're able/unable to do. I shall perhaps re-phrase: find one or two people you've played against and can tolerate or whose company you find satisfactory or enjoyable. Ask them if they'd like to play a couple of non-competitive games outside the gaming store, seeing as your local one seems to be run by Donald Trump. Use a kitchen table, or a floor, or maybe they'll have their own table, and get some games in. You'll be surprised how much you get to know your opponent, and before you know it you'll have a gaming pal, even if you do only communicate when it's warhammer related. Small victories and all that!

If your local gaming community plays nothing but Matched Play and you can't approach anyone else about a game when you may have to wait out for 2.0 and the new General's Handbook. You'll likely find the points decreases in the latter.

Good luck!

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1 minute ago, GeneralZero said:

Lets give GW the benefit of the doubt. Think positive :P

GW has never done ANYTHING rules-wise that earns them the benefit of the doubt. Their entire history as games designers has just been 'doubt' followed by 'oh yeah, that IS terrible.'

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It's interesting, the "Pulled to the Grave" Endless spell has very similar rules as the "Ravening Hunger" Endless spell from the Ironjawz Faction Focus. I wonder if that's what all the spells do (or some minor variation on that) or if we'll see a bit more variation.

Seems like Ravening Hunger is a little more powerful doing D3 Mortal Wounds to units within 1" to where it ends it's move, I wonder how much more to the spell is there, presumably different movement characteristics?

Also with the changes to the Summoning Rules I think it might be a bit of a missed opportunity if Ironjawz don't see some love, maybe giving the 'Ard Boyz the "Summonable" tag and giving Warchanters a way to summon squads of them with "noise" points or something. I know that's what the 'Ardfist did but would be interesting if it was no longer tied exclusively to the Battalion.

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4 minutes ago, PJetski said:

If only there was a resource required to summon. Something that had a significant opportunity cost. Maybe it could be mutually exclusive with other ways of boosting your armys power, like Command Abilities and Artifacts?

Nah, that's too far-fetched. We've already seen 0% of the actual rules, we should just keep making assumptions and continue to have a baseless panic

Single command point for a destroyed full size unit sounds still quite cheap fore me. Especially whenpoints cost of that single command point is 50 and that destroyed unit up to 300+. You know, we have seen quite much more than 0% of the actual rules. Unless they are just misleading us with a purpose with their rules previews. Which would be quite interesting marketing strategy.

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11 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

I went into a GW store this morning and while the manager says such updates are exciting for gamers he concluded that gamers in forums end up tearing their hair out over interpretation and rumour.

And we should care what random manager's assessment of online users because... why?

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12 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

Ok. This is where this forum fails on the panic/running around/navel gazing and general misinformation fuelled by GW’s drip fed updates on what the new edition may or may not look like. 

I went into a GW store this morning and while the manager says such updates are exciting for gamers he concluded that gamers in forums end up tearing their hair out over interpretation and rumour.

The new rule book isn’t out yet, but there are some here who are running around ‘like wet hens’. We assume a great deal.

But you know what ‘assume’ does.

Shall we calm down now?

This is entirely GWs fault though. The way they are delivering this information is terribly designed is they wanted to avoid these kinds of reactions. If this article, for example, had included a couple of more paragraphs saying "In order to maintain balance with non-summoning armies, we're doing X, Y and Z" speculation would be avoided.

Of course, what they want is to keep people speculating and maybe have some panic and start buying stuff to build new armies.

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4 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Other games have gotten no-points summoning to work. Malifaux for example. Things can be balanced with more than just points costs. For factions that focus on summoning, they can be heavily limited in different ways, lack of shooting, poor magic or combat ability, slow moving units, less or weaker traits and abilities, and/or having their units be slightly weaker than they should be for their points. It also has to be taken into account, the the less time a unit spends on the table, the less value it typically has.

The question then becomes, will GW balance it appropriately as above?

The answer is already no. Maggotkin, LoN, and DoT are already top tier or approaching top tier armies, now they're getting free additional points over everyone else. I'm sure changehost will be happy to have a couple more LoC, that maggotkin will enjoy the extra GUOs and that LoN will be able to literally bury you in skeletons.

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I wonder how the horrors' splitting ability work. If that is free, it will alone make Tzeentch a very horrible army to face.

 

For Tzeentch, the points will most likely be tied in to casting spells: 

Quote

Instead, you earn your summoned units with in-game actions: bloodshed, spreading plague, mastering magic, and other thematic goals. 

That cannot go wrong.

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5 minutes ago, Paul Buckler said:

Err just dont kill the whole unit..... It wont be back then.  Or sit on the gravesites, wholly within 9 is impossible then.

 

Sweet lord this place is turning into Facebook.

Congratz, then they just brought the whole unit back with other gravesites and deathly invocation, while your stuck camping your army in the middle of nowhere in a desperate bid to not be playing against a 2500+pt army in a 2000pt game. The amount of understanding of how the rules work here is turning into reddit level.

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6 minutes ago, Jamopower said:

Single command point for a destroyed full size unit sounds still quite cheap fore me. Especially whenpoints cost of that single command point is 50 and that destroyed unit up to 300+. You know, we have seen quite much more than 0% of the actual rules. Unless they are just misleading us with a purpose with their rules previews. Which would be quite interesting marketing strategy.

What if it cost more than 1 command point

What if the cost in command points scaled to the value of the unit you were trying to bring in to play

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1 minute ago, BURF1 said:

Congratz, then they just brought the whole unit back with gravesites and deathly invocation. The amount of understanding of how the rules work here is turning into reddit level. 

Yeah I barely play mate, dont know what i'm talking about.

 

 

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So far these are what worry me about the summoning change off the top of my head though I bet the warscrolls will be changed

Free blues and brimstones splits so pink horrors are basically 5 wound models with a damage table
Free Verminlord Warbringer from Skreech if he kills one model
Free archaon/12 bloodcrushers/EGDOK  in khorne by allying in  tzeentch horrors. if a single blue dies you get a unit of 1 brimstone so you can possibly rack up bloodtithe fast
The gray shaman summoning archaon
The Gaunt summoner and realmgate summoning 8 pusgoyle blightlords (880 points) every turn

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There's a lot of needless panic here. Take two massive pills of 'stop making mountains out of molehills' and call me in the morning ;)

 

Since we've been down this road before: let me just remind you all that skelletons have a movement value of 4. They might have returned to the table, but they're not coming back to a fight anytime soon.

And, as was pointed out, you don't -have- to wipe out the whole unit. Pull your punches.

Disregarding entirely that if you murder their general, nothing will be coming back at all.

Oh no! Strategic choices!? :D

All in all, I'm happy for death players. They deserve this.

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6 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

Congratz, then they just brought the whole unit back with other gravesites and deathly invocation, while your stuck camping your army in the middle of nowhere in a desperate bid to not be playing against a 2500+pt army in a 2000pt game. The amount of understanding of how the rules work here is turning into reddit level.

May want to actually see who you're replying to before making yourself look foolish?

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4 minutes ago, PJetski said:

What if it cost more than 1 command point

What if the cost in command points scaled to the value of the unit you were trying to bring in to play

It sure sounds like it doesn't when you read the article:

Quote

These changes are great news for any army that uses any form of summoning, offering you more tactical options and thematic ways to influence your games without any downside 

Quote

unique resource that allows them to bring fresh reinforcements onto the tabletop that fits with their army’s background – if you’ve got the Maggotkin of Nurgle or Legions of Nagash, you’ll have played with rules like this already.

Quote

For some recent armies, this ability works just like it does in your battletome today (but free!).

 

(Wonky quotes)

Of course, if it does require some extra points, I won't be disappointed, but I don't hold my breath. 

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