Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[tea_wild_owl]

10 minutes ago, daedalus81 said:

No, endless are bought regardless of realm and it's clear from the scrolls, too, as they get more powerful depending on the realm.  It's still up in the air if you can pick your other realm spells.

you choose your home realm, getting artefacts.

you and your opponent roll/choose a realm to play in, you and your opponent both get the realm spells and command traits.

you choose your endless spells, which can be used in any realm, but will get special effects in there home realm.

see it as a world championship in football. each nation has it's own benefits based on where they are born, but when you are playing in Russia and it's cold and snowing, all players are affected by it

[daedalus81]

4 minutes ago, tea_wild_owl said:

you and your opponent roll/choose a realm to play in, you and your opponent both get the realm spells and command traits.

Right, that's my interpretation from what I've seen so far, but not one that I necessarily prefer nor that I think is absolute given the treatment of endless spells.

Why get items based on your origin and not spells?  Doesn't variety in games go way down when we're all packing the same spells?  I understand the fluff concept of the winds of magic.

[Jamopower]

6 minutes ago, daedalus81 said:

Right, that's my interpretation from what I've seen so far, but not one that I necessarily prefer nor that I think is absolute given the treatment of endless spells.

Why get items based on your origin and not spells?  Doesn't variety in games go way down when we're all packing the same spells?  I understand the fluff concept of the winds of magic.

Because the winds of magic are different in each realm, while you can take your toys with you when you leave home.

[daedalus81]

1 minute ago, Jamopower said:

Because the winds of magic are different in each realm, while you can take your toys with you when you leave home.

Yea, but the winds can spill over.  The Geminids are evidence of that (and the endless spells in general).

[Jamopower]

14 minutes ago, daedalus81 said:

Yea, but the winds can spill over.  The Geminids are evidence of that.

I guess the spillover is not strong enough to support the spells from the realms. 

I wonder if GW would have made as big number about the subterranean battle rules in their previews, would people be speculating on their tournament use? 

I believe that the selection of the realm has been in the game from the beginning, and the realm specific spells have also been a thing for at least a year, so only thing truly new are the realm specific command traits (or abilities?) and artefacts. 

[PUFNSTUF]

1 hour ago, TheKingInYellow said:

I'm wondering if the matched play restriction on endless spells means one model on the table at a time, or only one casting attempt per game period.

I am also wondering this as well. As another user stated if your predatory spell goes far away or off the table like the swininging axe, can you then cast it again?

[amysrevenge]

The way I heard it was that a player can do as many casting attempts as they like, on as many wizards as they like, until one succeeds.  One successful cast per player per game per endless spell.

[Ryan Taylor]

It was confirmed on the Facehammer podcast that only one instance could be on the table at any given time but that if it is no longer on the table you could recast it again. - Russ Veal, Facehammer

[daedalus81]

4 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

The way I heard it was that a player can do as many casting attempts as they like, on as many wizards as they like, until one succeeds.  One successful cast per player per game per endless spell.

From the previous page:

 

"When you’re writing your lists, you’ll have the option to purchase endless spells using points, with matched play profiles found in both the Malign Sorcery book and the General’s Handbook 2018. Purchasing a spell for your army means any Wizard can cast it as many times as they like. The only restrictions are that a Wizard can attempt to summon just one endless spell per turn, and a single player can’t summon more than one of the same endless spell in a matched play game."

[Carnelian]

3 hours ago, Jamopower said:

Hasn't it been clear for a long time that the spells are based where the battle takes place and the artefacts based on where your army is from. Thus I don't believe the spells will see much play outside casual gaming.

Endless spells are available to anyone - they are not realm specific. 

Some of the endless spells have additional powers in certain realms but they are definitely a part of matched play

[stratigo]

9 hours ago, Kramer said:

Don’t know who and what you're playing but I didn’t hear any complaints on the last two tomes being unbalanced ?

than your second point: ‘balancing for the current meta’ I agree. But you’re arguing something no one is disagreeing with? The point was the last few times were designed with AoS 2 in mind. Big difference. 

And then your last point is just guessing life and hobby is going to suck. its really Just guessing on your part and I really don’t get why you would assume the worst. Makes things a lot less fun in my opinion. But sure. Seraphon is going to be wildly overpowered because they will rack up summoning points with ease and just slam those 500 extra points home. But if summoning armies are not crushing it in the next heat I expect you to pay the first rounds if we ever meet  

 

They will be crushing, since they are already crushing. Like, maybe tzeentch will fall off since they got nerfed hard (but maybe not, this isn't their first round of nerfing), but Nurgle's been smashing up into the top ten regularly, and Nurgle has exchanged, roughly, 60 points from the plaguetouched warband to be able to add a few hundred points of plague bearers being summoned. Nurgle gets A LOT of contagion points throughout a game.

 

Seraphon were ALSO a regular up at the top, they got no nerfs whatsoever, AND now can summon. I can't imagine them NOT being a top tier army.

 

The only army that isn't sitting pretty at an easy top tier already is LoN, and I imagine they, too, will reach the top now.

9 hours ago, Bloodmaster said:

which at a first glance sounds really cheap and stupid, but is a really cever move, keeping the game balanced in response to every new 'dex or battletome and reacting to the meta. Perviously you were stuck with a crapy armey for a whole edition or longer ^^.

Until their decisions make people stop playing an army since it's flat bad. Will GW buff an army that no one ever takes to tournies? Probably not.

 

8 hours ago, Bellfree said:

He has a point though, with very few other significant changes, adding 500pts to an army already pretty strong seems sketchy. He expressed it in an overly dramatic way, sure, but the idea that summoning armies end up being OP on release isn't impossible or ridiculous, and dismissing it outright could end up blinding people to easily FAQ-able issues.

GW's army balance is always a little sketchy, they've done pretty well for the past few books but the GHB caused more problems than it solved(Fyreslayers, Beastclaws, 90% of every battalion in the game, Kharadron) and the books before that had pretty significant issues as a result of them adjusting to the new design paradigm. Summoning is a massive mechanical change to these armies and if someone is able to find a way to utilize it that the devs didn't see coming it will be significantly stronger than it's supposed to be for a while. That's exactly how Vanguard Wing ended up being as crazy as it was.

Acting like it's the end of the world is silly. Acting like it's not a legitimate concern going forward, as well as something we as players need to keep an eye out for so that GW can fill any gaps in the system quickly is just as silly. Keep vigilant, try to break the system. If you can't, great! If you can, email GW's FAQ team.

Note, I play mostly people interested in competitive gaming, and I play KO. If I can't put up a half decent competitive fight, then I have spent around 700 dollars for an army I won't be playing, after less than a year after having invested that much into it. That really bothers me, and that should be no shock. This is not a cheap hobby, and I don't like the idea of spending a lot of money for an army that won't be fun to use. I put a lot of time researching armies so that I got an appealing mix of ascetics, fluff, and gameplay, and AoS 2.0 just shot my army in the foot. I am, thusly, unhappy.

 

7 hours ago, Vanger said:

So based on the GHB18 reviews on youtube, the following has changed:
- wizards gone up in points
- characters and monsters generally went down in points
- non summoning armies decreased in points
- warscroll battalions went down in points
- units that are capable of summoning went up in points
- nighthaunt will have 3 new endless spells only usable by them

To me it looks like GW wants to have more models on the table. I wonder why?

As a KO player, the actual point cost of a KO army has stayed within a 20 point deviation of how it was before. There is no significant change to KO.

6 hours ago, Aginor said:

As a Seraphon player I am looking forward to trying the new summoning and magic.

But I fear my regular opponent will just snipe the Slann with long range stuff (specifically: three of the new SCE ballistas.) in the first round and that's it. Kharadron and some others probably will also be able to do that.

Well, we will see.

Don't.... make it easy to do then. There's no reason a slann should be in range of a ballista or any KO shooting, and no reason for a Slann NOT to have a screen in front of him so that I can't just grapnel riggers on him (I can't shoot after grapnels, only before). If you are using him as a summons bot.... then he can sit in a back corner with a small screen and probably never even take a wound.

 

 

 

[Jamopower]

9 minutes ago, Carnelian said:

Endless spells are available to anyone - they are not realm specific. 

Some of the endless spells have additional powers in certain realms but they are definitely a part of matched play

Yes, but the question on which I answered was talking about the realm specific spells. 

[Drofnum]

7 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Seraphon were ALSO a regular up at the top, they got no nerfs whatsoever, AND now can summon. I can't imagine them NOT being a top tier army.

Except most their competitive lists were centered around a Balewind Vortex and that is not at all the same now.

[Aginor]

19 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Don't.... make it easy to do then. There's no reason a slann should be in range of a ballista or any KO shooting, and no reason for a Slann NOT to have a screen in front of him so that I can't just grapnel riggers on him (I can't shoot after grapnels, only before). If you are using him as a summons bot.... then he can sit in a back corner with a small screen and probably never even take a wound.

 

 

 

I'll definitely try that, but on a small table I am not sure it will work.

 

11 minutes ago, Drofnum said:

Except most their competitive lists were centered around a Balewind Vortex and that is not at all the same now.

Only Kroaknado was based on having a BWV. Others don't need it (Shadowstrike, Thunderquake, Bloodclaw, Sunclaw)

[ZaelART]

Has it been confirmed that you can’t access your home realms spells? It would make sense that wizards from different realms undergo different training and learn to do different things... but to suddenly turn up somewhere and start randomly flinging spells around that have no grounding in your specific arcane training or background makes no sense.... it’s chaotic.

[Drofnum]

3 minutes ago, Aginor said:

Only Kroaknado was based on having a BWV. Others don't need it (Shadowstrike, Thunderquake, Bloodclaw, Sunclaw)

I dont think any of those other than Thunderquake were really showing up on top tables though.  There was a single appearance of Shadowstrike if I recall but its not like it was a regular occurrence.

[amysrevenge]

6 minutes ago, ZaelART said:

Has it been confirmed that you can’t access your home realms spells? It would make sense that wizards from different realms undergo different training and learn to do different things... but to suddenly turn up somewhere and start randomly flinging spells around that have no grounding in your specific arcane training or background makes no sense.... it’s chaotic.

If you're trying to go to fluff/background to justify rules choices, might as well try to frame it to match instead of framing it to conflict and getting mad about it.

Bob from Aqshy was the best Fireballer in his wizard academy.  Man, that guy can do Fireballs, all day long.

Bob goes to visit Ghyran.  He tries to reach into the aether for the fire, to whip out his trusty Fireball.  Wait, there's no fire in the aether here - all he can grab is some BS healing force.  Well, at least it's something, hopefully he can turn it into something to heal himself or his buddies.

 

(ETA: We veteran warhammerers have a long history with forgetful wizards - it used to be that you'd roll randomly for spells known at the start of every game.)

[Mayple]

17 minutes ago, Drofnum said:

Except most their competitive lists were centered around a Balewind Vortex and that is not at all the same now.

Can confirm. Kroaknado was absolutely terrifying.

GW could have given Seraphon a 60 point decrease across the board and I would still consider my chances against them vastly improved. 

Powerful summoning is a price I will gladly pay to avoid the utter torture that was facing a Kroaknado I tell ya

[Asamu]

14 minutes ago, Drofnum said:

I dont think any of those other than Thunderquake were really showing up on top tables though.  There was a single appearance of Shadowstrike if I recall but its not like it was a regular occurrence.

A Fangs of Sotek list made top 4 at London GT, and that battalion dropped 50 points; there was also a shadowstrike list that took 3rd at cancon in January, and another that took top 10 at Adepticon. Those lists were improved with the changes. Seraphon have a lot of lists that can be competitive without a Kroaknado, and the lists that had the best performances in recent-ish tournaments didn't run either. Kroaknado and thunderquake are just the most common lists to see competitively.

I think the main reason that you don't see many non-thunderquake/kroaknado lists at top tables is that they see so much less play (check the lizardmen forums. The vast majority of lists that gets posted are Thunderquake or Kroaknado). It's been a while since there was a top 10 finish for a Kroaknado or Thunderquake list (going by the AoSshorts archive), though I have no idea what the 2 top 10 seraphon lists from Heat 3 were.

Kroaknado hasn't gotten any worse either. If anything, it's gotten better IMO; Balewind dropped 60 points and still gives +6" to the range of spells, and you can run a Spellportal instead and benefit from the look out sir rule to make Kroak harder to kill with shooting, and rolls of 10+ to cast add 6" to the range of spells with the update to the allegiance abilities. Also, unless FAQed otherwise, Kroak can now cast celestial deliverance multiple times, as Evocators set a precedent that spells/magic are considered abilities with regards to the core rules, as otherwise, their exception to the limit on casting one spell per turn wouldn't function, and putting such an exception on a new warscroll wouldn't make sense if it didn't work.

[Drofnum]

I agree that they are strong and look to be getting stronger, but again 3 decent results isnt them dominating the meta and then only getting stronger.  I only joined in to say that the fear that they are mega overpowered now is probably a bit unjustified.

I also doubt that Kroak's spell will go the way you are saying, yes Evocators can cast theirs multiple times but thats an exclusion written on their warscroll.  It doesnt really follow that they would update Kroak's scroll to say the same thing, I imagine if anything it will have the ability to cast it multiple times removed entirely.

[Enoby]

I just noticed, on all of these points leaks there have been no allies at the bottom of the points values. I wonder what this means. 

[tea_wild_owl]

5 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I just noticed, on all of these points leaks there have been no allies at the bottom of the points values. I wonder what this means. 

they are summarized at the end of each GA section

[GeneralZero]

I'm just back from my local GW shop.

They already have all the miniatures painted, even the endless spells.

As usual WOW, those minis are awesome and the Endless spells are really huge: when you drop them to the table, you notice them for sure. 

But I'd like to add 2 things:

- the endless spell miniature are not on the same level of detail as the units miniatures. You can really notice that it is not the same manufacturing process.

- the NH miniatures are really thin and feel aerial but some of them are SUPER SUPER fragile!!! I couldn't imagine a miniature that fragile only a thin line of plastic to maintain the whole mini in the space. It wont take long before it breaks. And you can't easily repair it. 

[Jamopower]

Lizards were and are really good army even without any batallions or special characters. They have one of the largest pool of units to choose from, of which most units are quite good. You have skinks, lots of good buffs, ranged mortal wound output, bravery 10 allaround, hitty stuff, tanky stuff, slanns, ripperdactyls, etc. They have a lot of tools and are good at playing objectives due to fast units and the teleports. Just not very straightforward to play as there are a lot of options. What's even better, they work with a variety of builds as the tournament results show. Putting easy free summoning on top of that is bound to make them good and perhaps even popular.

I think the theme is not for everyone, which is partial reason for the rarity. They were not as common as many other armies even the glory days of 6th edition when they were really strong. At least not around here. 

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, Drofnum said:

I agree that they are strong and look to be getting stronger, but again 3 decent results isnt them dominating the meta and then only getting stronger.  I only joined in to say that the fear that they are mega overpowered now is probably a bit unjustified.

That's only three that were posted.  At GT heat three two of the top ten lists were Seraphon and there are more results we could dig up with Seraphon placing highly with and without Kroak.  I don't think it's all doom and gloom, but from what has been leaked (with the usual caveat that we don't have the whole picture, yadayada) I must say I fear Seraphon more than any other army in 2.0.