Jamopower Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bloodmaster said: which at a first glance sounds really cheap and stupid, but is a really cever move, keeping the game balanced in response to every new 'dex or battletome and reacting to the meta. Perviously you were stuck with a crapy armey for a whole edition or longer ^^. It's also very hard to do any other way as the number of combinations is so huge. If they have say 20 players in their pool of testers that play an average of two games per week, you'll get to around 80 games per month, which isn't much in a game where you have 20-30 factions, 18 different matched scenarios and lots of other stuff such as command traits, artefacts, etc. around. Compare that to a 100 player 5 round tournament where you'll have 250 games in a weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heywoah_twitch Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 35 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: +++MOD HAT+++ To reiterate the post I made earlier. No more discussion on the wording on deciding the first turn please Sorry didn't see that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 25 minutes ago, Kramer said: Don’t know who and what you're playing but I didn’t hear any complaints on the last two tomes being unbalanced ? than your second point: ‘balancing for the current meta’ I agree. But you’re arguing something no one is disagreeing with? The point was the last few times were designed with AoS 2 in mind. Big difference. And then your last point is just guessing life and hobby is going to suck. its really Just guessing on your part and I really don’t get why you would assume the worst. Makes things a lot less fun in my opinion. But sure. Seraphon is going to be wildly overpowered because they will rack up summoning points with ease and just slam those 500 extra points home. But if summoning armies are not crushing it in the next heat I expect you to pay the first rounds if we ever meet He has a point though, with very few other significant changes, adding 500pts to an army already pretty strong seems sketchy. He expressed it in an overly dramatic way, sure, but the idea that summoning armies end up being OP on release isn't impossible or ridiculous, and dismissing it outright could end up blinding people to easily FAQ-able issues. GW's army balance is always a little sketchy, they've done pretty well for the past few books but the GHB caused more problems than it solved(Fyreslayers, Beastclaws, 90% of every battalion in the game, Kharadron) and the books before that had pretty significant issues as a result of them adjusting to the new design paradigm. Summoning is a massive mechanical change to these armies and if someone is able to find a way to utilize it that the devs didn't see coming it will be significantly stronger than it's supposed to be for a while. That's exactly how Vanguard Wing ended up being as crazy as it was. Acting like it's the end of the world is silly. Acting like it's not a legitimate concern going forward, as well as something we as players need to keep an eye out for so that GW can fill any gaps in the system quickly is just as silly. Keep vigilant, try to break the system. If you can't, great! If you can, email GW's FAQ team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 8 hours ago, Asamu said: Kroak's warscroll doesn't contradict the core rules anymore, if Evocators are any precedent. Both list their exception to the rule of 1 under magic. As Evocators are a unit that isn't available until AoS 2, spells/magic would have to be considered warscroll abilities, which override the core rules. Rippers will probably see a change to their warscroll. The rules of 1 aren't 'Core rules' they're matched play restrictions and are not subject to warscroll>core. If a unit gets to bypass the rules of one it will be due to a specific ruling like Kroak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christophe Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 36 minutes ago, Jamopower said: It's also very hard to do any other way as the number of combinations is so huge. If they have say 20 players in their pool of testers that play an average of two games per week, you'll get to around 80 games per month, which isn't much in a game where you have 20-30 factions, 18 different matched scenarios and lots of other stuff such as command traits, artefacts, etc. around. Compare that to a 100 player 5 round tournament where you'll have 250 games in a weekend. true but I am always surprised to see how quick a forum like TGA can identify a rules problem or an unbalance risk (in hours), on paper, while GW proudly show how all their staff are uber-fan of the hobby, all with dozen of armies, but still (in months) prior to a release will always let through dozen of errors and unbalanced units (you can't test everything it's true, but good forumers would have quickly tell them what's look fishy and need to be properly checked) . Their miniature culture > rules culture is obvious, not the same care/professionalism involved into designing a Leviadon mini and a Leviadon warscroll (change in rules AND points just after realease ?). NB : Being a collectionner/painter more than a player, it's kinda works for me. But my first Battletome was KO, and it will probably be my last... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Tzeentch get a fate point when a spell is cast, friend or foe but not unbound. Skfires, LoC, Kairos, Gaunt all went up, Acolytes, Screamers, Flamers down. Horrors split for free but the way splitting work is very different. You gain 1 Blue / Brimstone point for each one killed which you can spend to try and do mortal wounds on a 6+ for each point to a unit within 9". Instead you can store them and use them to summon Blue / Brimstone horrors paired with fate points. Summoned units have to be placed wholly within 12" of a Tzeentch hero AND 9" away from enemy units. So if you're wiping lots of horrors out they're not coming back until the next turn and if they do they're limited where they do come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, christophe said: true but I am always surprised to see how quick a forum like TGA can identify a rules problem or an unbalance risk (in hours), on paper, while GW proudly show how all their staff are uber-fan of the hobby, all with dozen of armies, but still (in months) prior to a release will always let through dozen of errors and unbalanced units (you can't test everything it's true, but good forumers would have quickly tell them what's look fishy and need to be properly checked) . Their miniature culture > rules culture is obvious, not the same care/professionalism involved into designing a Leviadon mini and a Leviadon warscroll (change in rules AND points just after realease ?). NB : Being a collectionner/painter more than a player, it's kinda works for me. But I bought the KO Battletome, and I will probably not buy an army book again... Yeah I agree, but I believe that the people at the studio have a very different view on the game. After all they presumable work with schedules and deadlines and with multiple projects at a time. Also when you're working with stuff you'll get blind on it. This from an engineer's perspective. On top of that, at least traditionally the GW employees have had quite relaxed and casual gaming attitude, at least the arts visible outside the Ivory tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamose Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 18 hours ago, Lost2Requiem said: Purely from a English grammar point of view, the rule is unequivocal. MUST roll off. IF it’s a tie etc. If GW come out and say that’s wrong, I’m fine with that, always play as intended, but it’s a bit of a proof-reading issue. be interested in the first FAQ...! Truthfully I like our interpretation (1st player deployed breaks ties) so much that I might try get that as a house rules for my FLGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamose Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 10 hours ago, Double Misfire said: Skinks became conditional Seraphon allegiance battleline. Which is huge... for non Seraphon players. ?♂️ That's right, all you other Order players! GW and us Seraphon won't stand for you kidnapping and enslaving our little skinks anymore! The skinks didn't want to work for you no how! #skinkfreedom ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevvermore Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 That's a great change, was getting tired of seeing mixed Order with Skink battleline everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanger Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 So based on the GHB18 reviews on youtube, the following has changed: - wizards gone up in points - characters and monsters generally went down in points - non summoning armies decreased in points - warscroll battalions went down in points - units that are capable of summoning went up in points - nighthaunt will have 3 new endless spells only usable by them To me it looks like GW wants to have more models on the table. I wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Vanger said: So based on the GHB18 reviews on youtube, the following has changed: - wizards gone up in points - characters and monsters generally went down in points - non summoning armies decreased in points - warscroll battalions went down in points - units that are capable of summoning went up in points - nighthaunt will have 3 new endless spells only usable by them To me it looks like GW wants to have more models on the table. I wonder why? The warscroll battalion actually did both. The newer ones went up and the ones that got WRECKED by the GHB 2017 went down, except for some of the more OP ones. My favorite battalion(the lightning eschelon) actually went down 110pts, but my favorite DoK battalion went up 50(or exactly the cost of a CP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Vanger said: So based on the GHB18 reviews on youtube, the following has changed: - wizards gone up in points - characters and monsters generally went down in points - non summoning armies decreased in points - warscroll battalions went down in points - units that are capable of summoning went up in points - nighthaunt will have 3 new endless spells only usable by them To me it looks like GW wants to have more models on the table. I wonder why? I'd say that the points adjustments are mainly reductions for those units that were never seen and increases for those that were always seen with some outliers. The summoning doesn't seem to have much of an impact on the prices as such. TheUundead summonable units cost the same, Seraphon are more or less the same etc. Tzeentch got lots of hikes, but I don't think that has much to do with summoning, more with their tournament presence during the last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jamopower said: To me it looks like GW wants to have more models on the table. I'm not so sure. You have several new ways of spending points....and the OPORTUNITY not to spend them all! 50 unspent points = 1 CP and can be huge in a strategy built around it. Spells can be devastating and cost points. Unused units, especially monsters went down in point, but are unique miniatures. Wizzards are up in points and now more important than ever. If you take one, it is to use it so you invest on him (spells?) (except if it is to unbind: but it is an expensive defense). Bataillions are up in points (less place for minis then) All in all, I am pretty sure that we will see lists with less miniatures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanger Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 I'm now to AoS, so that was my initial impression, but all of you are right, now I have a better picture of the changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, GeneralZero said: I'm not so sure. You have several new ways of spending points....and the OPORTUNITY not to spend them all! 50 unspent points = 1 CP and can be huge in a strategy built around it. Spells can be devastating and cost points. Unused units, especially monsters went down in point, but are unique miniatures. Wizzards are up in points and now more important than ever. If you take one, it is to use it so you invest on him (spells?) (except if it is to unbind: but it is an expensive defense). Bataillions are up in points (less place for minis then) All in all, I am pretty sure that we will see lists with less miniatures The spells that your investing in have miniatures though, and most of the monsters that got decreases were already seeing some play. Wizards MIGHT be more important than ever, but if their increases are greater than their increased usability they'll actually see less play. Honestly it's too early to tell either way, but I would still say it'll increase model count if anything changes at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamose Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 That clinches it! Some day soon I'ma run a 2000pt list with a Skink Chief, 10 Skinks and 38 CP! And he will overthrow the gods with his tactical acumen!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueshirtman Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 13 minutes ago, GeneralZero said: I'm not so sure. You have several new ways of spending points....and the OPORTUNITY not to spend them all! 50 unspent points = 1 CP and can be huge in a strategy built around it. Spells can be devastating and cost points. Unused units, especially monsters went down in point, but are unique miniatures. Wizzards are up in points and now more important than ever. If you take one, it is to use it so you invest on him (spells?) (except if it is to unbind: but it is an expensive defense). Bataillions are up in points (less place for minis then) All in all, I am pretty sure that we will see lists with less miniatures Well the question is is it better to have 2-3 CP extra or have 10-20 dudes. If the second is better people are going to have to buy more models otherwise they will lag behind the meta. Probablly will require a few weeks of testing by people with multiple armies though. For summoning heavy armies it is hard to imagine them getting away without making people buy more models for 2.0 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avvien Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Wouldn't you need at least 30 skinks for battleline? How about this instead! 1x Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One - 100 5x Saurus Knights - 100 5x Saurus Knights - 100 5x Saurus Knights - 100 + 32 command points That's 32 extra attacks with the saurus knight mounts divided up as and when you feel you need them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoodooChileIRL Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 In non rules related news. Interesting interview with @JReynolds about Soul Wars: https://www.trackofwords.com/2018/06/15/rapid-fire-josh-reynolds-talks-soul-wars/ I thought this was very cool: Quote JR: There are a few main characters. Balthas Arum is a stiff-necked Lord-Arcanum of the Anvils of the Heldenhammer, with a sinister connection to the dead world of Mallus. So am I crazy or is Balthas Arum probably Balthasar Gelt? (apologies if this has been discussed previously, I must have missed it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 As a Seraphon player I am looking forward to trying the new summoning and magic. But I fear my regular opponent will just snipe the Slann with long range stuff (specifically: three of the new SCE ballistas.) in the first round and that's it. Kharadron and some others probably will also be able to do that. Well, we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syph0n Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 The Warhammer App now has the updated Core Rules for those interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Yay, thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellfree Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 42 minutes ago, Aginor said: As a Seraphon player I am looking forward to trying the new summoning and magic. But I fear my regular opponent will just snipe the Slann with long range stuff (specifically: three of the new SCE ballistas.) in the first round and that's it. Kharadron and some others probably will also be able to do that. Well, we will see. It takes 3 ballista with the Lord Ordinator buff and CA to kill a Slann in one turn assuming Look out Sir. So that's 440pts and a CP. Doable but a significant investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bellfree said: It takes 3 ballista with the Lord Ordinator buff and CA to kill a Slann in one turn assuming Look out Sir. So that's 440pts and a CP. Doable but a significant investment. Yeah that's pretty much the math he did, too. (That and using Evocators to reroll wounds too) But then maybe I can just put a Carnosaur in front of the Slann so the Ballistas cannot see him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.