Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[boots468]

Yeah, from a narrative point of view I think the battles will be a lot better now!

Some early concerns about balance and fairness, but too early to properly say, and even now in most games I reckon one player starts as a heavy favourite based on the armies brought / terrain etc. Extra over-the-top realm rules and spells may make some mismatches worse, but will make others better.

Little disappointed they kept the Beastclaw 2+ to do 6 mortal wounds mechanic without altering it all - it's super tricky to give a points value accurately, and there's very little most armies can do to stop it just taking off a key support piece without any interaction at all.

[PJetski]

Just now, boots468 said:

there's very little most armies can do to stop it just taking off a key support piece without any interaction at all.

They can stay out of its predictable range

They can take spells/artifacts to negate mortal wounds

They can stay out of line of sight

They can weaken the Thundertusk and reduce its 6 to D6/D3

They can engage it in melee to prevent it from shooting anything else

[Infeston]

Maybe the element of randomness is also what drew me to Destruction in the first place. I often think we are more "Chaos" than the faction Chaos itself. We are used to units failing and doing nothing or succeeding and wrecking everything in our way. 

In WFB we had things explode, fire back to ourselves or units attacking each other. I would say Destruction is the definition of "Chaos", whereas Chaos is too structured to be called Chaos. 

I would say we Orruks, Grots, Trolls, Giants and Ogors are the true Chaos gods. Wuahahahaha!

[Beliman]

Just now, The Golem said:

In my opinion it's only logical that the spellcasters draw their magic from the realm where they are currently located. I mean the Mortal Realms are basically the Winds of Magics from WHFB made into separate magical worlds.

Yeah, I understand that. But let me put an example:

-Rudolf the mage knows some Aqshy spells and one that only his order/tribe/school knows (the one that is written in the warscroll). One of his realm spells is  "simple fireball lvl 1".

-If he fight's in Ghyran, my wizzard should know the "simple fireball lvl1", I can understand that he will cast this spell in an environment that has diferent magic rules, so the fireball will do alot less damage, range, or whatever, but it will not be "summon plant in a pot lvl 1" (that's the main basic Ghyran magic).

In my eyes, that seems to be the case for Endless Spells, and seems to be a bit more logic. If one of the spells from X faction is: "summon realm magic lvl 99", of course I find logic that this spell will be diferent  everytime it will be cast on other realms, but that's another point.

[Jamopower]

22 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

and this is what i said a while ago.

 

" summoning is so op its broken as f... " 

not quite, armies which dont summon could end up being so much cheaper and aggressive that the armies which rely upon summoning might not get the chance to ramp up as they've been bumrushed and wiped out beyond any meaningful response 

Isn't that a quite strong symptom that it's broken on some level, if you have to price all the other units in the game to take it into account? What if the Seraphon player doesn't have a Slann in this scenario you described?

 

What comes to the points drops, the ones teased this far have all been units that hardly have seen play this far. I would assume no one would be surprised that units like Dragon ogres, Steam tank, Demigryph knights, the KO Ships, etc. drop in price. I have a feeling that the points adjustments will take the new rules into consideration less than people think as most of the data has been generated with the old rules and they can't have so much information about what is good and what is not just by play testing as it requires hundreds of games to get it right. Actually previously GW (and pretty much every other game company) has been notorious in double tuning, the units that have been good previously cost more and are worse and the units that are not are made better and the cost is reduced. 

[bsharitt]

1 minute ago, PJetski said:

They can engage it in melee to prevent it from shooting anything else

That's actually something I'm wondering about these ranged abilities that happen in the shooting phase, but aren't actually shooting. I think he'll still be able to use it on anyone if he's engaged. The article specifically mentions that it ignores "Look out sir".

[PJetski]

1 minute ago, bsharitt said:

That's actually something I'm wondering about these ranged abilities that happen in the shooting phase, but aren't actually shooting. I think he'll still be able to use it on anyone if he's engaged. The article specifically mentions that it ignores "Look out sir".

Frost-wreathed Ice is a missile weapon, so it follows all the normal rules for shooting attacks

It ignores LOS! because it doesn't roll to hit

[Infeston]

2 minutes ago, PJetski said:

They can stay out of its predictable range

They can take spells/artifacts to negate mortal wounds

They can stay out of line of sight

They can weaken the Thundertusk and reduce its 6 to D6/D3

They can engage it in melee to prevent it from shooting anything else

There is even a new endless "spell wall" which can block line of sight. This would be a great way to prevent a Thundertusk to shoot your units. So there are ways to prevent it doing too much damage.

[AlphaKennyThing]

I think it's awesome. I think a perfect tournament would be to have all the tables with pre-determined themes and realms, but all the players turn up not knowing which table they'll be on. You'd have to plan your list based on lots of different variables, making sure to take an all-round versatile army with an adaptable mindset ready to face anything. Are you going to be at a disadvantage in some realms? Probably, depending on your opponent. But you'll have the edge in others.

That is a true test of Generalship, and I think they'd be fantastic competitive games to both play and to watch. 

[Imperial]

4 minutes ago, boots468 said:

Little disappointed they kept the Beastclaw 2+ to do 6 mortal wounds mechanic without altering it all - it's super tricky to give a points value accurately, and there's very little most armies can do to stop it just taking off a key support piece without any interaction at all.

Why? They non playable now! I played ~10 games in my town with BCR after GHB2 and i dont have any game where they was good! -1-2 to hit and they hit on 5-6+ w/o any chance to response!!!! It's was just some joke to play with BCR in GHB2

[Imperial]

4 minutes ago, PJetski said:

It ignores LOS! because it doesn't roll to hit

No lol. In the shooting phase, pick a unit within 18" that is visible to the Thundertusk

[Sheriff]

3 minutes ago, AlphaKennyThing said:

I think it's awesome. I think a perfect tournament would be to have all the tables with pre-determined themes and realms, but all the players turn up not knowing which table they'll be on. You'd have to plan your list based on lots of different variables, making sure to take an all-round versatile army with an adaptable mindset ready to face anything. Are you going to be at a disadvantage in some realms? Probably, depending on your opponent. But you'll have the edge in others.

That is a true test of Generalship, and I think they'd be fantastic competitive games to both play and to watch. 

London GT had this. All tables were realm-specific with rules for each realm. 

[Infeston]

4 minutes ago, Imperial said:

Why? They non playable now! I played ~10 games in my town with BCR after GHB2 and i dont have any game where they was good! -1-2 to hit and they hit on 5-6+ w/o any chance to response!!!! It's was just some joke to play with BCR in GHB2

I have to say that for this ability is a little different, because it is an ability and has no shooting profile with Hit, Wound and Rend values. It is simply just an ability which still counts as a shooting weapon. Also the +2 is no "To Hit" - value.

Here is the description:

Quote

Blasts of Frost-wreathed Ice: In the shooting phase, pick a unit within 18" that is visible to the Thundertusk. Roll a dice; on a 2 or more that unit is struck and suffers a number of mortal wounds shown on the damage table above.

So I don't think you can reduce the "To Hit" value, because the ability has no "To Hit" - value. But the unit still needs to be in Line of Sight.

[Imperial]

Just now, Infeston said:

I have to say that for this ability is a little different, because it is an ability and has no shooting profile with Hit, Wound and Rend values. It is simply just an ability which still counts as a shooting weapon. Also the +2 is no "To Hit" - value.

 

I dont mean Blasts of Frost-wreathed Ice. I speak about rest of BCR army with normal weapons 

[daedalus81]

3 minutes ago, Imperial said:

No lol. In the shooting phase, pick a unit within 18" that is visible to the Thundertusk

He means Look Out Sir - not Line of Sight

[Chikout]

So unless I am looking at the wrong timetable, the GW seminar is happening right now. My phone tells me it is 3.45 UK time. News in 15 minutes when the seminar finishes? I am eagerly waiting for a Gaz report.

[Imperial]

1 minute ago, daedalus81 said:

He means Look Out Sir - not Line of Sight

Ah! 

[Infeston]

Just now, Imperial said:

I dont mean Blasts of Frost-wreathed Ice. I speak about rest of BCR army with normal weapons 

Ah now I have understood what you mean. Jeah. Compared to other armies they have really weak "To Hit" - values. In my opinion the Thundertusk is the only unit which can really hit things, while all the other Ogors always miss their targets. ? 

[bsharitt]

8 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Frost-wreathed Ice is a missile weapon, so it follows all the normal rules for shooting attacks

It ignores LOS! because it doesn't roll to hit

You're right it is still a shooting attack, so it would still be gotten by the new shooting out of combat rules. I was thinking it was like the lord celestant hammer cloak where it's an ability in the shooting phase.

[Infeston]

2 minutes ago, daedalus81 said:

He means Look Out Sir - not Line of Sight

These terms are so confusing at the moment. ? 

[Imperial]

1 minute ago, Infeston said:

Ah now I have understood what you mean. Jeah. Compared to other armies they have really weak "To Hit" - values. In my opinion the Thundertusk is the only unit which can really hit things, while all the other Ogors always miss their targets. ? 

Yep. When i play against death with Mournghul and Neferata on table it's 100% lose, because i cant hit

[amysrevenge]

I think it will not be so easy to exclude the Realms rules from matched play.  They are a great balancing mechanism between factions with and without battletomes, or rather, they benefit armies without much more, relatively, than armies with.  Leaving them out will be a huge disadvantage for the battletomeless.

I think that possibly it might end up being similar to excluding, say, the shooting phase.  I mean, it's your game (or your event, or whatever) and so you can use or not use whatever rules you like without the Warhammer Police throwing you in Warhammer Prison, but if the game is built around including these rules, the ramifications of leaving them out can be pretty big.

 

[bsharitt]

1 minute ago, amysrevenge said:

  I mean, it's your game (or your event, or whatever) and so you can use or not use whatever rules you like without the Warhammer Police throwing you in Warhammer Prison, but if the game is built around including these rules, the ramifications of leaving them out can be pretty big.

No, I will personally hunt down and berate everyone I perceive to be having fun wrong.

[Sheriff]

4 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

I think it will not be so easy to exclude the Realms rules from matched play.  They are a great balancing mechanism between factions with and without battletomes, or rather, they benefit armies without much more, relatively, than armies with.  Leaving them out will be a huge disadvantage for the battletomeless.

I think that possibly it might end up being similar to excluding, say, the shooting phase.  I mean, it's your game (or your event, or whatever) and so you can use or not use whatever rules you like without the Warhammer Police throwing you in Warhammer Prison, but if the game is built around including these rules, the ramifications of leaving them out can be pretty big.

 

This. 

Personally I'm torn on this:

• I don't like extra layers of rules that slow down the game (choosing stuff at the start of the game), or things that cause 'gotcha' moments where I failed to memorize every spell/ability available in every realm and causes me to lose. 
• I want tome-less armies getting a level playing field where they have more options available to them, especially command abilities and battalions. 

[amysrevenge]

1 minute ago, Sheriff said:

This. 

Personally I'm torn on this:

• I don't like extra layers of rules that slow down the game (choosing stuff at the start of the game), or things that cause 'gotcha' moments where I failed to memorize every spell/ability available in every realm and causes me to lose. 
• I want tome-less armies getting a level playing field where they have more options available to them, especially command abilities and battalions. 

I hear you, but...

I think games will most definitely be slower at first, because few of us will have our plans in place ahead of time for what to pick from each Realm.  But, after a while we'll all have figured out our favourites, and it won't be a thing.