Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[angrycontra]

1 hour ago, Drib said:

Spells and Artifacts are in the Malign Sorcery set. The core rules have 18 pages because they include all changed allegiances, summoning for every faction, FAQs and Erratas.

Well after re-reading the soul wars article, you're right, spells and artifacts are part of malign sorcery set. However, the summoning + whatever erratas are part of ghb2018 (found that info on same article). There is screenshot of page with some of the realm rules which I believe to be part of the core rules 18 pages.

I gotta say though, I think gw is pretty dumb for releasing those bonus spells+artifacts on separate book. Majority of the community doesn't ultimately care that much about these supplement releases, which in turn means that a lot players will not have easy access to those new spells and stuff. Endless spells I was fine with, since those cost points anyway, but considering how gw liked to hype up all those extra spells we were gonna have, it's kinda silly that ultimately you can't get 'em unless you buy this expensive spell box (or that one person in your playgroup who wants to buy everything buys it).

[NurglesFirstChosen]

2 hours ago, angrycontra said:

Well after re-reading the soul wars article, you're right, spells and artifacts are part of malign sorcery set. However, the summoning + whatever erratas are part of ghb2018 (found that info on same article). There is screenshot of page with some of the realm rules which I believe to be part of the core rules 18 pages.

I gotta say though, I think gw is pretty dumb for releasing those bonus spells+artifacts on separate book. Majority of the community doesn't ultimately care that much about these supplement releases, which in turn means that a lot players will not have easy access to those new spells and stuff. Endless spells I was fine with, since those cost points anyway, but considering how gw liked to hype up all those extra spells we were gonna have, it's kinda silly that ultimately you can't get 'em unless you buy this expensive spell box (or that one person in your playgroup who wants to buy everything buys it).

I heard the malign portents set isn’t going to be that pricey. I’m dont know how much though, you sound like you do? 

[DantePQ]

I think Malign Sorcery won't be played at tournaments in few months/weeks as it's optional. 

Some things have potential to be game breaking - Changehost with DD and all those re rolls to cast with Banishment will be just crazy annoying to play. There will be issue with all DoT spellcasters using umbral portal to cast wave of spells with 36-37“ range. 

I hoped they would limit realms to particular armies but as it stands for now Malign Portents with all those spells and items wasnt designed to be balanced at all but more like Firestorm a fun addition with intention not to be abused. 

And I like all other changes a lot (even summoning so far looks to be kept in check) but I got bad feeling Malign Sorcery will open the floodgates to some crazy, broken combos. It will also make games longer. 

[Melcavuk]

£45 is the rumoured price point which is pretty reasonable depending on how you look at it (essentially its a magic based battle tome plus miniatures for all endless spells)

[Sheriff]

10 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

I think Malign Sorcery won't be played at tournaments in few months/weeks as it's optional. 

Some things have potential to be game breaking - Changehost with DD and all those re rolls to cast with Banishment will be just crazy annoying to play. There will be issue with all DoT spellcasters using umbral portal to cast wave of spells with 36-37“ range. 

I hoped they would limit realms to particular armies but as it stands for now Malign Portents with all those spells and items wasnt designed to be balanced at all but more like Firestorm a fun addition with intention not to be abused. 

And I like all other changes a lot (even summoning so far looks to be kept in check) but I got bad feeling Malign Sorcery will open the floodgates to some crazy, broken combos. It will also make games longer. 

Banishment isn't even malign sorcery, it's in the core book. 

Also firestorm was not abused, only brainlet TOs banned it. 

[Brightstar]

45 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

I think Malign Sorcery won't be played at tournaments in few months/weeks as it's optional. 

Some things have potential to be game breaking - Changehost with DD and all those re rolls to cast with Banishment will be just crazy annoying to play. There will be issue with all DoT spellcasters using umbral portal to cast wave of spells with 36-37“ range. 

I hoped they would limit realms to particular armies but as it stands for now Malign Portents with all those spells and items wasnt designed to be balanced at all but more like Firestorm a fun addition with intention not to be abused. 

And I like all other changes a lot (even summoning so far looks to be kept in check) but I got bad feeling Malign Sorcery will open the floodgates to some crazy, broken combos. It will also make games longer. 

I get why event organizers put up restrictions, but I've never understood tournaments banning anything.  All it does is shift the meta from one list to another, then another, and so on.  So preventing one player from "winning" in one way you just enable him to do it in another way.  It seems like...well, a serpent eating its own tail.  There is no end to it.  

[Bellfree]

1 hour ago, DantePQ said:

I think Malign Sorcery won't be played at tournaments in few months/weeks as it's optional. 

Some things have potential to be game breaking - Changehost with DD and all those re rolls to cast with Banishment will be just crazy annoying to play. There will be issue with all DoT spellcasters using umbral portal to cast wave of spells with 36-37“ range. 

I hoped they would limit realms to particular armies but as it stands for now Malign Portents with all those spells and items wasnt designed to be balanced at all but more like Firestorm a fun addition with intention not to be abused. 

And I like all other changes a lot (even summoning so far looks to be kept in check) but I got bad feeling Malign Sorcery will open the floodgates to some crazy, broken combos. It will also make games longer. 

Be careful, because Malign PORTENTS and Malign SORCERY are different things. I think the endless spells will mostly see adoption, hope the realm specific stuff doesn't see much play. Yes it works perfectly fine for matched play games but it's just too random and too unwieldy for a multiple round tournament. Even if you put every game in the same realm with the same random bonuses it doesn't really work because A. at that point it loses the thematic factor and just becomes extra bookkeeping and B. It warps the meta super hard around taking advantage of bonuses received for being in that realm. Ulgu for example would see a nutty amount of mages thanks to Umbral spell portal. I like the rules, even for normal matched play games, they just don't work quite right for tournaments.

Which brings me to the other thing I think might see some pushback out of malign sorcery, which is the Umbral Spellportal. The Umbral Spellportal is quite a bit above the powercurve of the rest of the Malign Sorcery spells for armies that can use it well. For example you can build a Nagash list that's totally capable of Doing Umbral Spellportal into 15 +4/+5 to cast spells into the dead center of the enemy army. This is largely un-counterable as well because you can take Arkhan for his command ability that lets the spells cast out of the USP get another 6" on them, which means that you can cast the USP while outside of unbind range and still hit pretty much anything you want, unbinding the spells will be almost impossible for most armies and casting back through the portal against Arkhan and Nagash isn't really going to work. You'll be able to get rid out the portal in your turn but that's about it.  Tzeentch is capable of very similar shenanigans, except they get free models out of it.

Other than realm specific stuff looking like a hard sell for tournamets, the USP seeming overly strong, and summoning still being a bit nerve wracking, everything else seems perfectly fine.

[Bellfree]

19 minutes ago, Brightstar said:

I get why event organizers put up restrictions, but I've never understood tournaments banning anything.  All it does is shift the meta from one list to another, then another, and so on.  So preventing one player from "winning" in one way you just enable him to do it in another way.  It seems like...well, a serpent eating its own tail.  There is no end to it.  

In this case it's because they're super random and very powerful bonuses, which leads to people feeling like they lost to the rules and not their opponent.

 

57 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Banishment isn't even malign sorcery, it's in the core book. 

Also firestorm was not abused, only brainlet TOs banned it. 

Banishment is too powerful to be allowed to exist. It's basically Curse of Years but using die that only roll 6s.

Firestorm would have definitely been abused if it didn't get banned and then subsequently FAQed. It was entirely possible to win a game as Vanguard Wing turn 1 by rolling a single 5+ when the book first dropped. By the time the issues were fixed, firestorm had already been cemented as something not for competitive play in the minds of players.

[Skabnoze]

Supposedly the endless spells are in the core rules.  My understanding is that they are purchased with points for part of your army and the warscrolls for them are in sources outside of the core book.  Initially that will be Malign Sorcery (although I would not be surprised to see the warscrolls in the app), but I would not rule out army-specific endless spells in battletomes - just like the army related terrain.

Tournaments may or may not end up using the realm spells, but I expect that they will use the realm artifacts and the endless spells.

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, Bellfree said:

Banishment is too powerful to be allowed to exist. 

How many games have you played with the realm spells rules so far?

[Paladin of Khorne]

I remember Warhammer Magic way back in the day; that expansion was cardboard and cards, so the models are definitely a step up. That said, it was done away with the very next edition, so I’m not sure what they’re expecting long term from supplemental magic like this. I hope it’s cool and fun and successful, just seems I’ve already seen this dance before. 

 

As an aside, are there any more rumors/leaks of all the price points yet for the new releases? I’m probably getting most everything on preorder day, but it would be great to have an idea how much I need to run by my wife ??

[Skabnoze]

7 minutes ago, Paladin of Khorne said:

I remember Warhammer Magic way back in the day; that expansion was cardboard and cards, so the models are definitely a step up. That said, it was done away with the very next edition, so I’m not sure what they’re expecting long term from supplemental magic like this. I hope it’s cool and fun and successful, just seems I’ve already seen this dance before. 

Yeah, it is interesting how many people are talking about this idea like it is new and how it is a horrible strategy.  This is exactly how they put magic rules into both Warhammer and 40k years ago.  Warhammer had the battle magic supplement box and 40k had the Dark Millenium supplement box.  

Both of those were pretty much identical to this product.  They had rules for a variety of spells and a bunch more magic items.  This box includes plastic models rather than card templates but otherwise it seems about the same.

They did not really “do away” with those products as much as they simply rolled them into the core rule sets in the following editions.

I find it pretty interesting that Age of Sigmar is seen as  doing a lot of new things and how GW is trying out new ideas - but a whole lot of them are resurrections of old ideas.  That even applies to a lot of the fluff and army ideas. 

[Lousy Beatnik]

Yep. Warhammer Fantasy had magic expansion boxes for... 8 years? Battle Magic and Arcane Magic for 4th, and Magic for 5th.

Admittedly, it felt way less of an option back then, while I get the feeling (foolish ?) people will get by without it this time.

[Gotrek]

1 hour ago, Bellfree said:

</snip>

Banishment is too powerful to be allowed to exist. It's basically Curse of Years but using die that only roll 6s.

</snip>

If you honestly cant tell the difference between a unit being DEAD and being out of position i do not have high hopes for this exchange...

1) MSU (multiple small units) will drastically reduce the efficiency of banishment. Who cares if 1 of your 4 identical units gets moved (except of course if they were guarding an objective)

2) you are capable of killing and/or unbinding the wizard. Its not like youre helpless. Especially if you're order and can get the new stormcast wizard

 

[Brightstar]

2 hours ago, Paladin of Khorne said:

I remember Warhammer Magic way back in the day; that expansion was cardboard and cards, so the models are definitely a step up. That said, it was done away with the very next edition, so I’m not sure what they’re expecting long term from supplemental magic like this. I hope it’s cool and fun and successful, just seems I’ve already seen this dance before. 

 

As an aside, are there any more rumors/leaks of all the price points yet for the new releases? I’m probably getting most everything on preorder day, but it would be great to have an idea how much I need to run by my wife ??

Oh, I remember that too when it first came out. Had a spell you could pick up a hill and drop it on units. Super fun...of course i had just built an 18 inch hill amd the elf player used it to wipe almost my entire army. Yeah. Good times, hahaha. 

I am a big fan of it coming back. Just curious to see how unique they make the spells. We don't need 40+ cause mortal wound spells!

[DantePQ]

4 hours ago, Gotrek said:

If you honestly cant tell the difference between a unit being DEAD and being out of position i do not have high hopes for this exchange...

1) MSU (multiple small units) will drastically reduce the efficiency of banishment. Who cares if 1 of your 4 identical units gets moved (except of course if they were guarding an objective)

2) you are capable of killing and/or unbinding the wizard. Its not like youre helpless. Especially if you're order and can get the new stormcast wizard

 

Sure but still DoT will have no problem to cast it several times (also it's stupid to have Demons using Light Magic as it has always been antidaemon stuff). 

It's crazy powerful against any horde army or monster mash or whatever. As it allows to move away one unit a turn for DoT or Nagash. And not only away from you army but away from objective as well which is stupid and sick. 

Sure you can try to unbid it but with DoT you usually won't (DD) so many times battles will be decided by a roll for that spell. 

If there was restrictions (I hope they are) put who can use certain realms (like Hysh only for Order armies or specific Order armies ) as there is less likely that it will be abused. 

Usually you won't be able to unbid against DoT or Nagash. That's the core problem, those kind of spells could be easily abused by certain armies. 

Umbral Portal as well, sure it's cool but Changehost can use it to blast several powerful spells across the table, Arkhan to cast spells you can't unbid, Nurgle to cast several spells. Problem is that opposing player usually won't be able to stop it. Again there are armies that will easily abuse it.

Also clearly Malign Sorcery introduces extra items, spell lores and endless spells. And it's optional supplement, those kind of things aren't part of Core Rules Rulebook or General's Handbook. And I can easily see it being limited at events unless there are some mechanics to keep it. In check for some armies (which I doubt). Also will make games longer. 

[Skabnoze]

What is to say that they don’t bring back the old dispel scroll in some way?  I expect that there may be some generic artifacts in the main rulebook and there is a huge amount of realm artifacts.  Given how many there are I expect there will be a number of ways to either outright dispel or boost dispel rolls.

Also, the spell we are talking about has a 12” range and specific restrictions on where the unit can be placed.  I don’t expect that many people will get more than a single cast of that spell given how close to danger that wizard will have to get to use it.  Also, they will most likely have a huge target on their back for every damage spell and shooting the opponent has.

In addition, these spells are tied to the realm the battle is taking place in - which means both players will have access to the same spell lore.

People need to take a deep breath and enhance their calm a bit.  We have not seen the full rules for any of this yet.

[DantePQ]

2 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

What is to say that they don’t bring back the old dispel scroll in some way?  I expect that there may be some generic artifacts in the main rulebook and there is a huge amount of realm artifacts.  Given how many there are I expect there will be a number of ways to either outright dispel or boost dispel rolls.

Also, the spell we are talking about has a 12” range and specific restrictions on where the unit can be placed.  I don’t expect that many people will get more than a single cast of that spell given how close to danger that wizard will have to get to use it.  Also, they will most likely have a huge target on their back for every damage spell and shooting the opponent has.

In addition, these spells are tied to the realm the battle is taking place in - which means both players will have access to the same spell lore.

People need to take a deep breath and enhance their calm a bit.  We have not seen the full rules for any of this yet.

Nope you're wrong spells are not tied to the realm the battle is taking place in 

You choose from which realms your army hails - and then you can use realm specific artifacts and spell lore. Which lorewise for Deamons or Death is just plain stupid to use realm of light  rules. 

[michu]

1 minute ago, DantePQ said:

Nope you're wrong spells are not tied to the realm the battle is taking place in 

You choose from which realms your army hails - and then you can use realm specific artifacts and spell lore. Which lorewise for Deamons or Death is just plain stupid to use realm of light  rules. 

It really isn't. It's not like in Hysh there are no undead and deamons - they can be everywhere and can use artefacts from these realms.

[Sheriff]

My dudes hail from the realm of dispel scroll. 

[MrZakalwe]

15 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

My dudes hail from the realm of dispel scroll. 

Funnily enough that's where every single WFB army used to hail from if my memories of list building are correct.

[Gotrek]

1 hour ago, DantePQ said:

Nope you're wrong spells are not tied to the realm the battle is taking place in 

You choose from which realms your army hails - and then you can use realm specific artifacts and spell lore. Which lorewise for Deamons or Death is just plain stupid to use realm of light  rules. 

Might wanna double check that: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/01/1st-june-rules-preview-battling-in-the-realmsgw-homepage-post-2/

Specifically: "Last, but not least, each of the Mortal Realms has a massive selection of spells associated with it, representing the unique powers that Wizards are able to harness. Each realm has seven spells, ALL of which will be available to ANY Wizard fighting in that realm"

seriously man, it's not that big of a deal as long as the rule of 1 stays in place.

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, DantePQ said:

Nope you're wrong spells are not tied to the realm the battle is taking place in 

You choose from which realms your army hails - and then you can use realm specific artifacts and spell lore. Which lorewise for Deamons or Death is just plain stupid to use realm of light  rules. 

My understanding is that you pick a realm for your army and that determines your artifacts, but the realm magic that is available is based on the realm where the battlefield is located.  

[Aelfric]

20 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

Might wanna double check that: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/01/1st-june-rules-preview-battling-in-the-realmsgw-homepage-post-2/

Specifically: "Last, but not least, each of the Mortal Realms has a massive selection of spells associated with it, representing the unique powers that Wizards are able to harness. Each realm has seven spells, ALL of which will be available to ANY Wizard fighting in that realm"

seriously man, it's not that big of a deal as long as the rule of 1 stays in place.

You're assuming that it's an either/or situation, though.  It is quite possible that you pick a Realm when building your army and can choose items and spells from that Realm-lore, and then also have access to the spells specific to the Realm you are fighting in.  The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. 

[Gotrek]

16 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

You're assuming that it's an either/or situation, though.  It is quite possible that you pick a Realm when building your army and can choose items and spells from that Realm-lore, and then also have access to the spells specific to the Realm you are fighting in.  The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. 

I'm assuming it because there has been ZERO indication that you choose spells from your home realm, so why would I entertain that thought? Yes, the concepts of both choosing your lore and getting a second lore randomly assigned are not mutually exclusive, but it is really, really, dumb.