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Arkiham

The end of compendium (finally?)

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Dark elves seem to have been deleted. 

 

Long over due or a step  too far ?

Screenshot_20180506-154549.png

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Feels more like that there's an update that's only partially pushed out linked to Warhammer Legends imo

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Yes, I think maybe it is about time to be honest. The army I feel for the most though is the Tomb Kings. Empire can play on as Free peoples, Lizardmen can play on as Seraphon but the Tomb Kings range was just incredible - so sad it didn't last.

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It's just part of what they need to do to move forwards. They have given players points and rules for their old armies and just moving on. For me, if it means that we get to see lots of new models I'm all for it. All it means is that you won't be able to use them in Matched Play events (unless the organisers choose otherwise!!) but for a lot of players you can still use the models and play games.

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I really don't understand this strange perverse joy a great deal of AoS players take in WHFB-content  being eradicated bordering on the fetishistic.

So long as things are being 'ported over' to Legends then I don't mind it so much. They're pretty much just reorganising it rather than deleting it.

Honestly, I think they should just reorganise the WHFB factions and bring the dozens of sub-faction together again as they did with Legions of Nagash. It would have worked fine in something like 8th Edition 40k with Detachments, but when AoS has such a hard allied limit (which I actually prefer over Detachments for the record) there's no real benefit to say... Dark Elves being split between four different sub-factions unless they're heavily expanded like Daughters of Khaine. At least that way they can scrap Compendium's because they're redundant due to being modernised rather than because Games Workshop decided, "time to  give WHFB collections one final spit in the face."

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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3 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I really don't understand this strange perverse joy a great deal of AoS players take in WHFB being eradicated bordering on the fetishistic.

It helps them with their security and self esteem issues (apparently), it might cause some self-esteem issues when you push something hard and it's still inferior to "something past" ;)

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21 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I really don't understand this strange perverse joy a great deal of AoS players take in WHFB-content  being eradicated bordering on the fetishistic.

I'm creeped out that it's coming from some of the bigger names in the AoS community. They're acting like they had their cheerios peed in because they were told by the Old Guard that pre-GHB AoS was garbage. AoS is back to number two/three from out of the Top 5. Get over it.

26 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Honestly, I think they should just reorganise the WHFB factions and bring the dozens of sub-faction together again as they did with Legions of Nagash. It would have worked fine in something like 8th Edition 40k with Detachments, but when AoS has such a hard allied limit (which I actually prefer over Detachments for the record) there's no real benefit to say... Dark Elves being split between four different sub-factions. At least that way they can scrap Compendium's because they're redundant due to being modernised rather than because Games Workshop decided, "time to  give WHFB collections one final spit in the face."

Or at least invest some development in them, models or story. The reason why so many of the older WHFB armies died was because they didn't get their update (Brets, Beastmen, WEs until right near the end), or were so weak upon release (TK, O&G). Let us know these armies are to be taken seriously. I think the Firestorm boxes are a great example of this. More Stormcast is not a good example of this.

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AOS has 3 ways to play.   Older WHFB armies can still be used in 2 out of those three officially.  The third, matched) can still be played with them if a nice civil discussion is had with your opponent.

 

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4 hours ago, chord said:

AOS has 3 ways to play.   Older WHFB armies can still be used in 2 out of those three officially.  The third, matched) can still be played with them if a nice civil discussion is had with your opponent.

 

Unless I missed something, haven't most tournaments still let you play matched play with the original GHB's points? Have there been a lot of tournaments that don't use any points system? Pretty sure I can't have a nice civil discussion with a tournament organizer if he said no the first time. Pretty sure someone considers leaving the game.

Also, I don't see why they don't just put in a point system that is overcosted for competitive play and leave it be. If the points aren't updated, it's still an army I love that I want to play, it even if it's out of date and overcosted? Or do I just let it sit in a bin? Maybe I should sell it on eBay to an unsuspecting noob. They'll love it!

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51 minutes ago, SuperHappyTime said:

Unless I missed something, haven't most tournaments still let you play matched play with the original GHB's points? Have there been a lot of tournaments that don't use any points system? Pretty sure I can't have a nice civil discussion with a tournament organizer if he said no the first time. Pretty sure someone considers leaving the game.

Also, I don't see why they don't just put in a point system that is overcosted for competitive play and leave it be. If the points aren't updated, it's still an army I love that I want to play, it even if it's out of date and overcosted? Or do I just let it sit in a bin? Maybe I should sell it on eBay to an unsuspecting noob. They'll love it!

Well, blame the community for demanding GW release a point system.  The community based ones would have most likely still had points for all these models.  

 

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7 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I really don't understand this strange perverse joy a great deal of AoS players take in WHFB-content  being eradicated bordering on the fetishistic.

No one is getting perverse joy over WHFB content being eradicated because WHFB content hasn't been eradicated since 2015.  WHFB, the tabletop miniatures game, ended in 2015.  It is neither updated nor revised and never will be.  The lore still exists in many forms and is frequently licensed for video games and RPG's.  This  would never be remarked upon if it weren't dredged back up every time GW spells "Aelves" without an "A".  Warhammer: Legends exists to pay homage to 30 years of world building and many people's love of the Warhammer world.  It gives players the means to play narrative and open AoS in the Warhammer world with official rules.  Nothing more, nothing less.

At this point, WHFB players have had 3 years to find some part of AoS that speaks to them.  They have had 3 years to find an army that they enjoy playing with, enjoy the lore behind, enjoy the look of, or enjoy painting.  If they haven't found anything about AoS to enjoy then maybe its not the game for them and that's ok!  That's fine!  I don't like playing Dungeons & Dragons (or Pathfinder) after having played both for over a year.  But if the only thing someone loves about AoS is that they can find someone to play with, then they should be honest about that.  But if that's the case then perhaps its time to find a game they actually enjoy instead of wishing that this game would be something it isn't.

7 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

At least that way they can scrap Compendium's because they're redundant due to being modernised rather than because Games Workshop decided, "time to  give WHFB collections one final spit in the face."

Let's be clear.  GW have provided updates to rules and/or points for models they do not sell and make no money from, 3 times now.  The only benefit they receive from doing this is community goodwill and the chance to keep fans who may make future purchases.  They are not spitting in anyone's face.  They may have made decisions that you disagree with but nothing they have ever done (including ending WHFB) is a personal insult aimed at any player or group.  They are a business.  They don't care if you disagree with their business decisions but that disregard is not a personal insult.

Please understand that notions of persecution directed at this community are misguided and bitterness over the end of WHFB achieves nothing at this point.  Claiming that anyone on TGA is taking joy in the suffering of WHFB fans does nothing but make this community seem hostile and unpleasant.  These are exactly kind of accusations that drove AoS players out of forums in 2015 and onto Facebook and that eventually led to the creation of this forum.  For a while TGA was the only place to publicly discuss AoS without fear of being attacked and blamed for the end of WHFB.  Please remember that before making these kind of claims.  If you  feel you are being verbally attacked for enjoying WHFB, report it to the mods immediately.  But if you are only making hyperbolic claims for the effect of it, that is just harmful to this community.    

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13 hours ago, SuperHappyTime said:

I'm creeped out that it's coming from some of the bigger names in the AoS community. They're acting like they had their cheerios peed in because they were told by the Old Guard that pre-GHB AoS was garbage. AoS is back to number two/three from out of the Top 5. Get over it.

Or at least invest some development in them, models or story. The reason why so many of the older WHFB armies died was because they didn't get their update (Brets, Beastmen, WEs until right near the end), or were so weak upon release (TK, O&G). Let us know these armies are to be taken seriously. I think the Firestorm boxes are a great example of this. More Stormcast is not a good example of this.

Edit. Doesn't matter.

Edited by Thebiggesthat

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As a TK guy, I am somewhat aware of occasional dismissive statements along the lines of "TK sucked. Get over it", "Nobody bought/played/liked them" and "TK aren't coming back. I'm glad" on here from time-to-time, and I have vague recollections of much the same occasionally being said about WHFB, the Old World and "boring Tolkien fantasy" in general.

However, I think it tends to be the same 4 or 5 posters mostly.

In political terms, it kind of reminds me of those self-proclaimed ultra, ultra-liberal/progressive types claim to be so open-minded to everything, but attacks everything old and/or anyone whose opinions differ even very slightly from theirs. And that's speaking as someone quite liberal myself.

Anyway, as with politics, it's a minority, and I have also seen some inane garbage written by the pro-WHFB, anti-AoS "tribe" as well (albeit, maybe not so much on here, being an AoS forum and all).

Edited by Kyriakin

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This is the end for fantasy now. The real one. I imagine in the next year we’ll see more and more legacy stuff phased out and perhaps one or two armies updated to be current. I think this is a healthy if painful thing for fantasy fans. It hurts to see this stuff go in an official capacity but if you still don’t like AoS it’s time to move on. The small amount of fantasy fans can’t keep holding an entire new game and world back forever when so much people enjoy AoS fir what it is. 

Edited by Barkanaut
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Yea, but I think many are holding on as they are wondering if their faction is going to get the DoK treatment.

If you did, say, Spiderfang it's plausible.

Edited by Kyriakin

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1 minute ago, Kyriakin said:

Yea, but I think many are holding on as they are wondering if their faction is going to get the DoK treatment.

If you did, say, Spiderfang its plausible.

Yeah for me this is one thing that could be improved. A little figure clarification on what will be expanded and what won’t. 

I can see a few of the elves and green skin factions without allegiance abilities either being cut or consolidated.

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Well rumors say next year moonclan grots update. That’s the only chatter of updated armies right now. 

Edited by Barkanaut

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Just now, Barkanaut said:

Well rumors say next year moonclan gross update. That’s the only chatter of updated armies right now. 

I'd say Moonclan is a given at this point.

That said, Deathrattle seemed like a given when the Shidespire crew were teased, and that hasn't (yet) happened.

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I think what GW have done in Legends has so much potential.  I can understand where some of the frustration is coming from - it's the same when the last set of updates came that removed all of the Compendium named characters.  However this is very much GW drawing a line in the sand and saying that Old World armies don't exist verbatim in Mortal Realm armies.  Some elements may have remained but the end of the World that Was and the interviening years has changed pretty much every faction out there.

What's really cool though is that GW listened to the complaints following the last Generals Handbook and produced a way of playing your Old World armies using the (in my opinion) easier to understand Age of Sigmar rules.  Best of all it's free for everyone.

My own feeling is that it won't be long before somebody releases a community set of points for the Dark Elfs.  We'll likely get another Legends PDF in not too distant a future and then get the same.  Once we've enough somebody out there will run the first Legends tournament likely with defined way of building an army.  My own personal hope is that if a points system is released that it's actually different to what we've got for Age of Sigmar, possibly more comprehensive with having to pay for upgrades and using a different "base" (i.e. not multiples of ten).

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55 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

I'd say Moonclan is a given at this point.

That said, Deathrattle seemed like a given when the Shidespire crew were teased, and that hasn't (yet) happened.

I figured deathrattle was so obvious it wasn’t worth mentioning. 

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16 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

I figured deathrattle was so obvious it wasn’t worth mentioning. 

Well I always thought, that the Deathrattle army is a mindless horde controlled by a necromancer or a Vampire lord. 

In other words I always saw them as the usual battleline of an death army next to Zombies 

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1 hour ago, Barkanaut said:

This is the end for fantasy now. The real one. I imagine in the next year we’ll see more and more legacy stuff phased out and perhaps one or two armies updated to be current. I think this is a healthy if painful thing for fantasy fans. It hurts to see this stuff go in an official capacity but if you still don’t like AoS it’s time to move on. The small amount of fantasy fans can’t keep holding an entire new game and world back forever when so much people enjoy AoS fir what it is. 

I don't think that units that were part of the Grand Alliance Books or a later publication will become Legacy only (because they would have done it years ago. The only stuff that will become legacy only is the stuff that was only in the Compendium PDF or a named Character of the World that was.

It's sad that in some cases variation is lost (for example: the only Knights on Horses for Order are the Dragonblades, so its bad when bretonia get Legacy only), but I was glad when the old named chars were gone with the compendium update. Don't get me wrong, I collected and played WHFB during 7. and start 8. Edition, but if you are only seeing the same named characters in AoS lists, that doesn't even have background, because they have the better rules. Something went wrong.

Partly it's a problem of having rules for named characters at all. For example, at the moment we don't even know if Gordrakk, The Fist of Gork is still alive after about 100-200 Years when we first heard of him during the Realmgate Wars

To get a little more variety perhaps we as a community have to do our part, making some own Fanmade Battletomes or campaigns, writing a little background for an unknown part of the Realms. I really can imagine Skeleton armies using Archers, Mounted Archers and Chariots or Knights riding horses or an Aelf Militia using Spearsmen and Archers (without being Wanderers) but does it really have to be lables "Tomb Kings", "Bretonia" or "High (A)elfs?

Making some surreptitious advertising I have something like an Alpha Version (Warscrolls, Skrimish-/Path to Glory-/Pitched Battle Profiles) for Lion Rangers:

I know, it can't be used for tournaments and you need permission of your opponent to use them, but let us simply have fun by creating a little for a World with nearly endless possibilities. ;)

7 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well I always thought, that the Deathrattle army is a mindless horde controlled by a necromancer or a Vampire lord. 

In other words I always saw them as the usual battleline of an death army next to Zombies 

Yeah, the regular troops will be something like mindless puppets. In case of Wight Kings, those should have some personality and should be able to control the others.

Edited by EMMachine

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Warhammer Legends aren’t for “Warhammer fans” as presented by the interweb.  They’re for people who like AoS who want to play it in a World that Was setting.  It’s all being tied under one banner as the Black Library fiction on the same subject is being labelled as Warhammer Legends. 

As far as the  narrative is concerned everything before the End Times still happened it’s all part of the timeline it wasn’t erased. The rules have changed it folks want to play WFB there’s 8 editons to choose from Warhammer Legends are for playing AoS in a historical setting which is also now what the Realmgate Wars source books are for  

 

 

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For me Warhammer Legends is a nice addition - if they make all compendiums in reasonable time & create some army construction rules / allegiance like stuff, currently it's just a bunch of warscrolls not adding much. But I don't understand why they remove the Legacy models from Matched Play - they already stripped of any named characted from them, making them generic - mortal realms are vast - one can create their own fluff.

DE is minor change as there were few models, but when it comes to Brets & TK this will have a BIG impact. Especialy for people who play these armies, not everyone needs a top 1 pro army, but not being able to play friendly games using the matched rules at local group is very poor decision, especialy that people are sceptical about fan-made points... As a Bret player I'm realy concerned how it will end... Probably will still use the old compendiums as technicaly the new ones don't replace the old - it's not directly said anywhere & warscrolls have different names.

 

 

 

Edited by Verengard
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47 minutes ago, Verengard said:

but when it comes to Brets & TK this will have a BIG impact. Especialy for people who play these armies, not everyone needs a top 1 pro army, but not being able to play friendly games using the matched rules at local group is very poor decision, especialy that people are sceptical about fan-made points... As a Bret player I'm realy concerned how it will end.

This. Absolutely this.

This isn't about not being able to play Brets/TK at a tournament (I mean, seriously, who would?), but being no longer included within the common language (i.e. points) for quickly organizing pick-up games in FLGS and clubs.

History has born out that "former points", "fan-made points" and "unpointed" rarely gain any traction and/or acceptance within a pick-up environment.

Who knows, though. The points removal hasn't actually happened yet for these two factions. Maybe GW will not include them in Legends, or have them in Legends/Compendium simultaneously.

Fingers crossed.

Edited by Kyriakin

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