Proxying Weapons/Models

[syph0n]

17 hours ago, Sleboda said:

I am ok with a proxy for one model for a game or two prior to making a purchase. That's seems reasonable to me.

Other than that, I'm firmly opposed to proxy, counts_as, heavy "creative" conversions, etc.

I have a pretty simple standard I apply:

You put your army out on the table. Without you saying a word, can I identify with certainty which army it is and which units (including their non-hidden options) the various models represent?

If yes, game on.

If no, I'd prefer to find a different opponent for the afternoon.

Years ago I wrote up a longer explanation of why, if you have time and are curious.

http://www.muppin.com/joesleboda/manifesto/Section3_1.htm

It's out of date, and goes on several pages, but hey.

I did read it, and it was insightful. Thanks. I've not played any games other than open play when Sigmar first launched, so I'm trying to be conscious other gamers. This was useful, thanks. 

5 hours ago, someone2040 said:

My thoughts on proxies:

Absolutely no if playing in an event.

Probably no if playing in store, although this would likely be up to the manager.

Maybe yes if playing against friends.

At the end of the day, I have no issues amongst friends or regular battle buddies and the like if you're doing it to try out a new unit or two, or just don't have some things ready. It's not something I have frequently done, but I completely understand it. When I was building up my Freeguild, I proxied a Chaos Chariot in for a Celestial Hurricanum for a couple of games just to try it out (As I wasn't sure if I wanted to build a Hurricanum or Luminark).

But personally, it's not something I would want to see every game. It is definitely something that detracts from the game, in the same way that unpainted models and scenery do even if it's just one unit or all of one unit type.

 

As others have mentioned. If they were conversions then they would be more accepted. As ultimately then they'd just become slightly different looking Darkshard with a scaly cloak.

I'm mostly likely to play a friend, for fun, who I know would be fine with it and it would work the same the other way. 

My local store is Warhammer World, so I'm not sure how people are there ?

I'll never play an event with this army mind, it's purely to finish off a load of old models I feel too attached to to not use like Bolt Throwers and the Drakespawn Sorceress. 

1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

I think this one of those questions, that if you ask 20 people you'll get 20 different answers.

I'd say my own opinion (and one of the general consensus reading people's opinion's above) is that providing it's obvious what the models are meant to represent and you don't have to keep explaining what they are (or even worse forget yourself), overall you should be fine.

One thing I would throw in is that if you're learning or want to find out how a unit would work, there's absolutely nothing wrong playing with a friend and going "that unit of X represents Y - I've added a token to remind us".

However the set in concrete rule is - check with your opponent or in the case of a tournament the TO

Yes, sage advice. As I said, this is not a tournament army, if I ever got to that stage I'd certainly be very clear. 

I think I need to try and get my hands on some proper crossbows and look to convert my Corsairs. 

[Melcavuk]

Warhammer world is my local too. Need to check how stringent they are because I’m working on all conversion army

[syph0n]

43 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

Warhammer world is my local too. Need to check how stringent they are because I’m working on all conversion army

Gut feeling is if you book a table, then you field what you like as long as it's GW. In my short return to the hobby, I've learnt forums tend to focus a lot on lists, tournaments, tiers and far less on this actually being a hobby to collect and make and paint and be passionate about your army. 

Several years back I took a drakespawn with wings as a pegasus proxy and the staff loved it, can't imagine that's changed. 

[RuneBrush]

13 minutes ago, syph0n said:

Gut feeling is if you book a table, then you field what you like as long as it's GW. In my short return to the hobby, I've learnt forums tend to focus a lot on lists, tournaments, tiers and far less on this actually being a hobby to collect and make and paint and be passionate about your army. 

Several years back I took a drakespawn with wings as a pegasus proxy and the staff loved it, can't imagine that's changed. 

Completely agree with this.  WHW's only real rule is that they expect to see GW models being used.  To a certain extent providing you don't break Rule 7 (don't take the mick), you're largely going to be good to rumble.  In fact there's absolutely nothing stopping you playing using a ruleset that you've made up yourself.

[syph0n]

Well, I've bit the bullet and ordered 15 crossbows (all they had available) for a few quid. That's enough I think between a couple of units to have a proper play with conversions. If they're not much larger than the handbows I'm gonna make up the Corsairs with a mixture of bows, and then have a look at the unit as a whole. 

5 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Completely agree with this.  WHW's only real rule is that they expect to see GW models being used.  To a certain extent providing you don't break Rule 7 (don't take the mick), you're largely going to be good to rumble.  In fact there's absolutely nothing stopping you playing using a ruleset that you've made up yourself.

I think it's actually encouraged. When I asked about round bases, staff were pretty much "no one is bothered here". Even when I was asking about alliances and stuff, using old models, the chap was just very open. Again, I think forums have a more competitive breed of player, but I might just be naive. 

[Melcavuk]

Best way to spready them out would be to equip any of the "special" models in the unit (musician, banner bearer, sergeant) with a hand bow and their token item (horn, banner, sword etc) as within a unit armed with crossbows this will then be enough to keep them part of the unit and maximise how far your can spread those bows 

[syph0n]

1 hour ago, Melcavuk said:

Best way to spready them out would be to equip any of the "special" models in the unit (musician, banner bearer, sergeant) with a hand bow and their token item (horn, banner, sword etc) as within a unit armed with crossbows this will then be enough to keep them part of the unit and maximise how far your can spread those bows 

You'd read my mind. 15 will easily do 2 units by the time you factor in 3 command models. 

[syph0n]

I've posted in my thread over in modelling, but how do people feel these represent Darkshards? 

Corsairs are fantastic models still. I've stuck to the Darkshard style helmets, but will mix in the helmet less ones for variety.

Shields are an issue, where do they go? Equally, I have about 10 metal Cold One Knight shields from many moons ago, and modern plastic ones are expensive (thus defeating the object of the conversions in the first place!)