My Turn

[Krunck]

Hey Guys, 

I've been playing Shadespire since release, recently a situation came up in one of my games that I would like your input on.

The issue I'm having has to do with the ploy "My Turn".

 

Here is the scenario (names are for example only), Ghartok is not inspired, and has no upgrades.  Severin is able to kill Ghartok.

 

Ghartok charges Severin, attacks and deals his two damage.

Severin attacks Ghartok, and deals his damage,  killing Ghartok.

 

Here is where "My Turn" comes into play.

 

It says in "MyTurn" that the trigger is after an attack action or ploy that damages a friendly fighter.

In the Reactions section of the Rulebook (pg. 24) it stats that Reaction interrupt normal gameplay, said triggered reaction resolves, then normal gameplay is resumed.

In the Out of Action section (pg. 21) when a model has received either equal or more than  their hp in damage they are removed from play.

My sole argument is the "interupts normal gameplay" part.

 

Is Ghartok able to use "My Turn" to attack Severin before he is removed from play, possibly killing Severin as well?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Out of Action.bmp

Reactions.bmp

[Sleboda]

There are a few other cards like this that would allow a "dead" guy to react. In our group, we've ruled that in order to react you have to be alive. Since you have to take some damage to trigger these cards, it obviously must be dealt to the fighter already ... So, if he's taken too much damage, he's dead and can't react.

Note also that some cards specifically allow a 'fight back' reaction prior to death. Not definitive, I know, but indicative maybe.

[Krunck]

This is the argument that I'm having with my gaming group.  They agree with you.  My argument is is that Reactions interrupt (pause the game per se) the normal gameplay, as stated in the rulebook.  If reactions pause the game to give time to resolve said reaction, then Ghartok would still be on the table to attack Severin.  Once the reaction is resolved, gameplay resumes, and Ghartok is removed from the battlefield.

[ReynakZhen]

GW really needs to release a comprehensive chart of when exactly certain reactions can be played. This would solve pretty much all rules issues and have the added benefit of GW rules writers having a visual aid to help their future card writing.

[TheOtherJosh]

33 minutes ago, Krunck said:

My argument is is that Reactions interrupt (pause the game per se) the normal gameplay

The key wording on the card is “reaction: Play this after an Attack Action or Ploy that damages a friendly fighter [...]”

The key piece is bolded. This particular card isn’t a reaction that interrupts an attack action it must be played AFTER the attack action has completed. (See Page 24) by the time it has caused damage, the attack action is over. Much like the example “Tireless Assault” at the bottom of p.24.

If the Card said “during the attack action” then you’d be on target.

[Goblin-King]

I'm gonna have to say you can neither push nor attack with a dead fighter.

As been said already, there isn't really an interrupt. The entire attack/ploy resolves before the reaction window for this card.

[Krunck]

Then the question is, is the attack action completed when damage is dealt or when the model is removed?

[mcmattila]

The action is completed after the damage is dealt and the fighter is taken out of action, model removed. Then you have no fighter to push or make an attack with, hence you can't play this card.

[TheOtherJosh]

51 minutes ago, Krunck said:

Then the question is, is the attack action completed when damage is dealt or when the model is removed?

“When you choose one of your fighters to make an Attack action, follow this sequence. Once the sequence is complete, that action is complete.” P. 20 (Shadespire rulebook)

The sequence (without the entire set of howto descriptions form) is as follows:

(Attack Action begins)

- Choose Attack action

- Choose target

- Roll Attack dice

- Roll Defense dice

- Compare successes (damage is applied here; If fighter sustains equal to or more damage than their wounds characteristic one would follow the “Out of Action” Rules paragraph on p.21)

(Attack Action ends)

So @mcmattila is on track, the actual end is right after the comparison step.  The key piece is in Bold, that you have to complete all of the bits for the attack action sequence to end.

In this case the attack action hits compare, wounds were equal or greater. Model is removed. Comparison ends. This ends the Attack Action (against your unit). “After the attack action” reactions are then played now.

Since the model no longer is on board it can’t be pushed or make an attack action in return.

[Spinsane]

Actually, the rulebook is relatively clear on how to play My Turn, once you look more closely at it. 

On 4/26/2018 at 3:15 PM, Krunck said:

In the Reactions section of the Rulebook (pg. 24) it stats that Reaction interrupt normal gameplay, said triggered reaction resolves, then normal gameplay is resumed.

THIS, here, is where people are wrong on how My Turn (and a few other reactions) is (are) played.

The rules actually read:

Quote

When you use a reaction, it happens immediately after the activation or action that triggered it – even before the power step (pg 22) unless the card specifies otherwise. Some reactions are even used during an activation, interrupting the game. Where this is the case, the reaction will state when it is used.

You'd be right if we were to look at the second sentence, but if you look more closely, it says the Reaction interrupts gameplay only if triggered during an activation. In all other cases, the first sentence says the reaction occurs immediately after the activation/action ends.

My Turn occurs after the action/activation, so does not interrupt normal play.