Ghur human faction

[CDM]

Following on from a discussion about human realm factions 

I wanted to see if anyone has got any in depth ideas of what they would like to see from a ghur human faction. 

Would it be serving gorkamorka, sigmar or maybe both?

I would like to see a great mix of barbarian warriors riding in howdahs on large beasts. Hunting packs mixed with beast masters and their pets. Rudimentary war machines like wooden catapults or trojan horse style effigies. 

Waddayathink? Is there a niche to fill with this or has the bonespliterz already taken this spot?

 

[Melcavuk]

Skin walker savages, think pelts to take on the shape of the beasts, would be a great way to get a unit in various stages of transition (hunter in bear pelt, half bear half hunter, bear), able to mirror the shape of the beast with a pelt that holds the last vestiges of its soul.

Lightweight and fast units, skirmishers, focus on traps and primitive weaponry

Evasion over armour (deployment tricks, hit debuffs instead of armour)

Variety of cavalry - specficially not horses, lets get some nicer beasts into the realms.

Serving an incarnation of Gorkamorka but not neccessarily as Gorkamorka

Variety of beasts, swarms and light animals.

Blowpipes, toxins and other poisons from the realm

[CDM]

8 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

Skin walker savages, think pelts to take on the shape of the beasts, would be a great way to get a unit in various stages of transition (hunter in bear pelt, half bear half hunter, bear), able to mirror the shape of the beast with a pelt that holds the last vestiges of its soul.

Lightweight and fast units, skirmishers, focus on traps and primitive weaponry

Evasion over armour (deployment tricks, hit debuffs instead of armour)

Variety of cavalry - specficially not horses, lets get some nicer beasts into the realms.

Serving an incarnation of Gorkamorka but not neccessarily as Gorkamorka

Variety of beasts, swarms and light animals.

Blowpipes, toxins and other poisons from the realm

Love the idea of traps. I had a crack at some crazy traps when I tried my hand at a kroot fan dex!

Skin walker is a great idea, maybe they could change mid battle as well 'evolving' as their numbers lower or when they do some damage!

Here's a great tidbits of fluff around some humans of ghur who worship zig-mah!

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Vurm-tai_nomads

[Malakree]

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-ogor-grots-en.pdf

For their trapper ability.

The problem is at this point the lore has established the Ghur Humans as all being associated with sigmar in some fashion or another. Realistically I think anything you would do with a Ghur Human faction would have to be done with Orruks, Grots or Ogors instead, that or come up with a brand new species which can be dedicated to Gorkamorka.

[CDM]

6 hours ago, Malakree said:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-ogor-grots-en.pdf

For their trapper ability.

The problem is at this point the lore has established the Ghur Humans as all being associated with sigmar in some fashion or another. Realistically I think anything you would do with a Ghur Human faction would have to be done with Orruks, Grots or Ogors instead, that or come up with a brand new species which can be dedicated to Gorkamorka.

I like the lore for making these will undeveloped humans still following sigmar! It's wleasy enough to change the lore up a bit, maybe some Grots have tainted their land with madcap mushrooms or they have mistaken some divine acts of sigmar for gorkamorka.

[Melcavuk]

Where has the lore specifically said all Ghur humans follow sigmar? For example we know nagash worshipping cults exist in every realm, chaos worshipping cults exist in every realm. This very nature implies that humanity worships a variety of deities from all of the pantheons so it makes sense that there would be those bestial humans (or insane ones) that have gone savage and worship Gorkamorka

[CDM]

2 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

Where has the lore specifically said all Ghur humans follow sigmar? For example we know nagash worshipping cults exist in every realm, chaos worshipping cults exist in every realm. This very nature implies that humanity worships a variety of deities from all of the pantheons so it makes sense that there would be those bestial humans (or insane ones) that have gone savage and worship Gorkamorka

Yeah definitely could worship gorkamorka too, they could see ironjawz as the 'noble' knights and stormcast could be viewed as the agents of destruction too them.

I think if they were to do a ghur faction it could definitely used for both. 

[Melcavuk]

I think the issue you will face is that if they worship sigmar or build civilisation they’d end up as another order faction as we’ve seen being destructive or murderous doesn’t preclude you from being Order if you put up some buildings after 

[CDM]

I think they could be either. A rampaging nomad society could work for both. It only depends where there loyalty lies.

[RuneBrush]

One of the challenges you face is that if a random Orruk group came across anything they'll simply give it a good Krumpin', regardless of what deity they follow.  Means the life expectancy of a Ghur tribe would be pretty short.

You need to come up with some reason why the Orruks wouldn't smash them - either they're slaves (unlikely and wouldn't fit in the GW ethos) or they provide something the greenskins want as much as (or more) than a fight, that isn't already provided by Grots or Squiqs.

[Malakree]

We know the wyrm cities are either order or chaos aligned and the nomads worshiping "zig-mar" are the ones we would ideally peg as the destruction faction. 

That's where the problem really lies.

[Aelfric]

7 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

One of the challenges you face is that if a random Orruk group came across anything they'll simply give it a good Krumpin', regardless of what deity they follow.  Means the life expectancy of a Ghur tribe would be pretty short.

You need to come up with some reason why the Orruks wouldn't smash them - either they're slaves (unlikely and wouldn't fit in the GW ethos) or they provide something the greenskins want as much as (or more) than a fight, that isn't already provided by Grots or Squiqs.

How about an AOS version of the Reavers from Firefly with some strain of infection or disease that only affects a percentage of the human population.  Perhaps the Orruks view these rampaging maniacs as embodying the waaagh in some way, or maybe even orruks can sense the utter insanity and choose to avoid it, where possible, on an instinctive animal level.   

[Skabnoze]

8 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

One of the challenges you face is that if a random Orruk group came across anything they'll simply give it a good Krumpin', regardless of what deity they follow.  Means the life expectancy of a Ghur tribe would be pretty short.

You need to come up with some reason why the Orruks wouldn't smash them - either they're slaves (unlikely and wouldn't fit in the GW ethos) or they provide something the greenskins want as much as (or more) than a fight, that isn't already provided by Grots or Squiqs.

To be fair, Orcs are said to be throughout all of the realms - although it is stated that the biggest and meanest are from Ghur (Ironjawz).  So the issue of human tribes having to fend off Orc raids seems to apply to every realm and not just Ghur.

[novakai]

My idea would be an AoS version of Wulfen  who are humans who believe their curse of being a werewolf is a  blessing from GorkaMorka, so they just embrace being a beast and go around the mortal realm as a big Murderpack destroying and eating everything.

[Melcavuk]

16 minutes ago, novakai said:

My idea would be an AoS version of Wulfen  who are humans who believe their curse of being a werewolf is a  blessing from GorkaMorka, so they just embrace being a beast and go around the mortal realm as a big Murderpack destroying and eating everything.

I have Ghur great hunt fluff that lends into this as part of the background for my Stormcast. Those who hunt and consume the flesh of the greatest predators in Ghur are themselves cursed to descend into bestial madness until their forms shift to make their feral souls.

[PlasticCraic]

10 hours ago, Malakree said:

We know the wyrm cities are either order or chaos aligned and the nomads worshiping "zig-mar" are the ones we would ideally peg as the destruction faction. 

That's where the problem really lies.

That's true, but they can easily advance the storyline by introducing additional tribes we haven't heard of yet, or by having some event in the game that results in their conversion to worship of Gork and Mork (which could be quite cool).

I think the larger obstacle is that new factions are still allocated by their race rather than by their nature, so it doesn't matter how savage and bestial they are, whether they survive by opertaing raiding parties on settlements rather than through agriculture and commerce, the theme of the army capturing and riding great beasts. 

It's likely to be a question of, well they're Humans...and Brets and the Empire were humans and we put them in Order...so....

Followed by an explanation that they fight Chaos, so Order reluctantly accepts them (although by that metric. everything that isn't Chaos is Order, including Ironjawz.  It's literally what defines Ironjawz - they became bigger than other Orruks by fighting Chaos so much).

Order's defining characteristic is not building cities, it's what army their race was in WHFB.  Until GW shows some signs of moving on from the mapping of WHFB races, we would have to assume that any Humans will be Order.

[PlasticCraic]

On 4/25/2018 at 7:36 AM, Melcavuk said:

Skin walker savages, think pelts to take on the shape of the beasts, would be a great way to get a unit in various stages of transition (hunter in bear pelt, half bear half hunter, bear), able to mirror the shape of the beast with a pelt that holds the last vestiges of its soul.

Lightweight and fast units, skirmishers, focus on traps and primitive weaponry

Evasion over armour (deployment tricks, hit debuffs instead of armour)

Variety of cavalry - specficially not horses, lets get some nicer beasts into the realms.

Serving an incarnation of Gorkamorka but not neccessarily as Gorkamorka

Variety of beasts, swarms and light animals.

Blowpipes, toxins and other poisons from the realm

WOW!  This is an awesome post!  

I had always drawn a blank when I thought about this topic, because whatever I thought of ended up coming back to Bonesplitterz but less green.  There are some awesome ideas in there!  I would love to see this get the full treatment.

[Malakree]

This was inspired by this post in a different thread.

52 minutes ago, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:

I think most Ironjawz players here would agree with you @Megaboss Badgash. If the new magic supplement that's coming out this summer (or GH3) can give us a lore/prayer list, we'll be almost up-to-date. It gives our support characters more things to do and can help vary each general's play-style in a way. I really like Fist of Mork (or Gork) as well as Dead "ard

 

I really want Gorkamorka to usurp Ghur and the wind of the beasts replacing it as the realms prime diety (ala Nagash, Sigmar, Alarielle). That would be so fricking cool and finally give us a proper realm.

Not to mention there could be some awesome lore/events around Ghur and the Brown Wind being changed as it merges with the Two-Headed God. Imagine it, Ghur becoming even more feral and primal, the races changing and shifting as the Magic of the Beasts mixes with the Magic of the Waaagh! The monsters becoming bigger and more ferocious than they already are. Then the realm itself begins to leak and spill into the other realms as the two finally become one unleashing a new terrifying WAAAGH! upon the realms.

Suddenly we have a whole bunch of amazing avenues to explore as part of this orgy of destruction(!!)

• Spiderfang already worship a beast aspect of Gorkamorka, with the addition of Ghur they can begin to truly merge and become one with the spiders, embracing both the Waaagh! and the Wind of Beasts equally and becoming the perfect example of this fusion.
   
• The Skinchanger faction you guys are talking about is the humans of Ghur being warped by the Clashes of the winds, the Waaagh! magic altering their minds even as the Bestial Winds warp their bodies. 
   
• Free the classic Beastmen from the pit of chaos as their Iconic Magic is fused and remade causing the untainted Brayheards/Warheards to join the new bestial faction of destruction while those who cling to the Chaos Gods are even more warped as the Chaos Magic battles the new Wind of Ghur inside them causing to mutate into Pestigors and Khorngors adding two new awesome subfactions for Nurgle and Khorne.
   
• In the greatest most Ironic of twists the only ones to survive the twisting maelstrom of the Green God with Ghur is the Vurm-Tai Nomads. While all the other "civilised" peoples flee or are warped they cling to the almighty "Zig-Mar" and resist the assault becoming a People of Fanatical Nomads that live and die for their god. The newest incarnation of Devoted of Zig-Mar but with a zealous cavalry element coming from their nomadic raiding roots.
   
• Updating of Greenskinz and Beastclaw Raiders as they and their beasts grow closer, the Orruks and Ogors becoming more beasts and while their mounts begin to develop sentience akin to the Brutal Cunning Gorkamorka is so famous for. 

Not to mention the opportunity for a whole host of new gribbly monsters for all of the destruction factions. Possibly even merging the Skinchangers and the Gutbusters in some truly horrific amalgamation. 

Would be so fricking awesome.

[Ollie Grimwood]

“Oomies?! We don’t need no stinking Oomies!”

(Attrb. Every Orruk ever) 

 

That said there’s definitely precedent for humans worshiping the other gods’ of the Realms. They need a differing MO from the other Destruction factions and a narrative on how they avoid the bigger other factions (Ironjawz, BCR). I think I’d go with them being masters of camouflage springing up from ambush all over the place while being lightly armoured and quick maybe  with lots of shorter range thrown missle weapons. 

Might end up being too similar to Sylvaneth or Brayherd however 

[Johhny The Squid]

On 26 April 2018 at 6:32 AM, Malakree said:

This was inspired by this post in a different thread.

 

I really want Gorkamorka to usurp Ghur and the wind of the beasts replacing it as the realms prime diety (ala Nagash, Sigmar, Alarielle). That would be so fricking cool and finally give us a proper realm.

Not to mention there could be some awesome lore/events around Ghur and the Brown Wind being changed as it merges with the Two-Headed God. Imagine it, Ghur becoming even more feral and primal, the races changing and shifting as the Magic of the Beasts mixes with the Magic of the Waaagh! The monsters becoming bigger and more ferocious than they already are. Then the realm itself begins to leak and spill into the other realms as the two finally become one unleashing a new terrifying WAAAGH! upon the realms.

Suddenly we have a whole bunch of amazing avenues to explore as part of this orgy of destruction(!!)

• Spiderfang already worship a beast aspect of Gorkamorka, with the addition of Ghur they can begin to truly merge and become one with the spiders, embracing both the Waaagh! and the Wind of Beasts equally and becoming the perfect example of this fusion.
   
• The Skinchanger faction you guys are talking about is the humans of Ghur being warped by the Clashes of the winds, the Waaagh! magic altering their minds even as the Bestial Winds warp their bodies. 
   
• Free the classic Beastmen from the pit of chaos as their Iconic Magic is fused and remade causing the untainted Brayheards/Warheards to join the new bestial faction of destruction while those who cling to the Chaos Gods are even more warped as the Chaos Magic battles the new Wind of Ghur inside them causing to mutate into Pestigors and Khorngors adding two new awesome subfactions for Nurgle and Khorne.
   
• In the greatest most Ironic of twists the only ones to survive the twisting maelstrom of the Green God with Ghur is the Vurm-Tai Nomads. While all the other "civilised" peoples flee or are warped they cling to the almighty "Zig-Mar" and resist the assault becoming a People of Fanatical Nomads that live and die for their god. The newest incarnation of Devoted of Zig-Mar but with a zealous cavalry element coming from their nomadic raiding roots.
   
• Updating of Greenskinz and Beastclaw Raiders as they and their beasts grow closer, the Orruks and Ogors becoming more beasts and while their mounts begin to develop sentience akin to the Brutal Cunning Gorkamorka is so famous for. 

Not to mention the opportunity for a whole host of new gribbly monsters for all of the destruction factions. Possibly even merging the Skinchangers and the Gutbusters in some truly horrific amalgamation. 

Would be so fricking awesome.

Wow. These ideas are really freaking awesome! So when you say "becoming one with the Spiders" for the Spiderfang, do you mean more units similar to the Scuttlings? 

[Malakree]

1 minute ago, Johhny The Squid said:

Wow. These ideas are really freaking awesome! So when you say "becoming one with the Spiders" for the Spiderfang, do you mean more units similar to the Scuttlings? 

Oh yeah! Also other mutant ideas, so a spider rider that is "merged" so like a centaur but more of a Grot torso coming out the top of a still complete spider akin to the old two headed giant types or maybe a traditional type centaur but with a Spider head rather than a grot head, a spider where the front half is rearing up like a centipede and the front four hands are humanoid with weapons. 

So many potentially cool models which represent the different levels of grot/spider symbiosis and synthesis which in turn form a logical hierarchy, so scuttling are pathetic/weak with little to no carapace, small and so fall at the bottom of the totem pole. On the other hand you have a Grot Warboss who has a full exoskeleton, fangs around the mouth (think predator) with four huge spider scythe arms coming out of their back stood ontop of a Giant Spider, the apex predator, with no harness or rigging, just a pure symbiotic bond!

[Johhny The Squid]

1 minute ago, Malakree said:

Oh yeah! Also other mutant ideas, so a spider rider that is "merged" so like a centaur but more of a Grot torso coming out the top of a still complete spider akin to the old two headed giant types or maybe a traditional type centaur but with a Spider head rather than a grot head, a spider where the front half is rearing up like a centipede and the front four hands are humanoid with weapons. 

So many potentially cool models which represent the different levels of grot/spider symbiosis and synthesis which in turn form a logical hierarchy, so scuttling are pathetic/weak with little to no carapace, small and so fall at the bottom of the totem pole. On the other hand you have a Grot Warboss who has a full exoskeleton, fangs around the mouth (think predator) with four huge spider scythe arms coming out of their back stood ontop of a Giant Spider, the apex predator, with no harness or rigging, just a pure symbiotic bond!

Maybe different units (or tribes/sub factions) could be based on different types of Spider, I.e, A Trapdoor based one that can ambush easier, or a really big Tarantula one.

[Malakree]

1 minute ago, Johhny The Squid said:

Maybe different units (or tribes/sub factions) could be based on different types of Spider, I.e, A Trapdoor based one that can ambush easier, or a really big Tarantula one.

 Along with the different "sub faction" rules they have done with the DoK temples or KO skyports for example.

[Johhny The Squid]

3 minutes ago, Malakree said:

 Along with the different "sub faction" rules they have done with the DoK temples or KO skyports for example.

Yeah that could work quite nicely.  So anyway, back on topic, what types of units would everyone like to see out of a kind of Skinwalker-Tribal style Ghur faction? I think maybe this could be a chance to utilise the namesake of the realm - beasts. Maybe some as cavalry, others as Warbeasts.

[Johhny The Squid]

Alright, I tried making a Hero for this faction with the custom Warscrolls maker, but it decided to act up and not let me save, so instead I'll just give you the gist. It's basically a Shaman-Like figure that can take various aspects of animals and knew a spell that could improve the save of those around it. Thoughts?