Vortumnas Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 Well, now I'm considering this: Legion of Sacrament Lords of Sacrament battalion Arkhan, Soul harvest 3 Necromancers, dread, vigor, spectral grasp VLOZD, not sure on spell??? 40 spear skellies deployed in the grave 30 wolves babysitting the battalion 5 wolves for obj grabbing Mortis engine to skirt between Arkhan up front and the necros behind 2000 on the dot Wish there was room for spirit hosts and hex wraiths, but that's just personal preference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 6 hours ago, Vortumnas said: Well, now I'm considering this Looks like a big pile of fun...the wolves are a nice idea, reminds me of ?josh? list with 45 puppies... For the VLoZD I would recommend the Orb, since he‘ll be wreckingballing, so no friendly fire and with +6“ might get some good railgun shots out... Other idea would be to pinion him up to summon the skellis out of the box... if you do that first turn on a flank, you already pretty much diktated your opponents turn my, my, you got all the options! Sadly still waiting for my mortis engine ;_; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortumnas Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 Yup @Josh's recent list gets the credit for giving me the idea. I've gotten a lot of good miles out of my old wolves, they're my fave battleline, but I'm gonna need a few more to make that big unit. Wish I could squeeze in a corpse cart, the synergy with the wolves and necros would be awesome, especially with mystic shield - doggies with a 3+ save! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I've played Lords as extensively as it possible at this point and I think it's a trap, for a few reasons: 1) Are spells are not as good as they look. They dont debuff shooting and they're short ranged (even with Arkhan's buff, which you cant always use in any case due to the need for Inspiring Presence on most of our core units). Sometimes you just dont *need* 7 spells. 2) The extra spells aren't always useful turn 1 due to range, as above, which diminishes your return for your points. 3) The Mortis Engine, whilst quite flexible and reasonably cheap, doesn't do enough for 180 points. 4) Arkhan, whilst quite flexible, is still not worth 330 points. He also gives our bad matchups - the ones against shooting armies - even worse, by putting more eggs in one easy-to-break basket. LoS is far from bad, but it is also not fantastic. It's just not a great way to spend points. mostly due to Arkhan and the Mortis Engine. I know this doesn't help with "optimising" it at all, but I think not being optimal to start with makes that a lot harder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortumnas Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 Indeed. It's a challenge, that's why I like it, and I think there's a lot of potential. It is not a romp-and-stomp army, it's defensive, mid-range and resilient. I think the VLoZD takes some of the heat off Arkhan and the engine, or he can be replaced with 4 morghasts that are similarly a big threat/wound sink. Shooty armies are a challenge, but I've done alright against them... Except for that freaking changehost lol. What do you consider an optimised death list? And if you were to play LoS, how would that look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 An optimised Death list is a much bigger topic than a single forum post, haha. And there’s a lot of testing to be done still! I’ve run Lords+Deathmarch more than any other list (in sacrament) and Lords is what I’ve ended up dropping. For LoS in particular though, the problem is a fundamental one; you’re sinking a bunch of points into casting extra spells, but those spells only work against some kinds of armies and not against others, and even then only in certain circumstances (range). It’s suboptimal by nature because it doesn’t work against enough stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortumnas Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 Ok, well, the subject of this thread is Optimizing LoS, so, since you've had lots of experience with the battalion, let's say you had to play it. In that scenario, how would you run it to get the most out of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 This list is off the cuff but, debuff squad cruising around, spectral grasp would mainly be used for double pile in if out of range of the mortis but id baby sit the vamp lord & arkhan for extra spell & screams 3 x 5 wolves for objectives & 10 for screening arkhan & vamp lord I just feel like for what you get with the battalion you miss out on other areas (like youre lacking in other areas just for another spell & the +1 save bubble) not saying its bad but i feel like i could make stronger list without it Allegiance: Legion of SacramentLeadersArkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)- General- Lore of the Dead: Vile Transference (Vampires)Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)- Deathlance- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness - Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine PinionsNecromancer (110)- Artefact: Wristbands of Black Gold - Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming DreadNecromancer (110)- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading VigourNecromancer (110)- Lore of the Deathmages: Spectral GraspBattleline5 x Dire Wolves (60)5 x Dire Wolves (60)5 x Dire Wolves (60)10 x Dire Wolves (120)Units9 x Spirit Hosts (360)BehemothsMortis Engine (180)BattalionsLords of Sacrament (70)Total: 2000 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 129 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortumnas Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 Very similar to the list you posted in the tournament thread, thank you! I'd wondered how you would modify that to include the battalion Edit: Question - can the cloak of mists and shadows be used in every combat phase? RAW it seems like it's a free 12" move, which could be used to keep a necro up to speed with the faster parts of the battalion. Also, LoN states under Legion of Sacrament, Magic: "All Wizards... Know an additional spell from one of the Lores of the Dead." So, is it legal to then give a necro pinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahn-ket Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 No Necromancer can only take stuff from the lore of deathmages and vampire from lore of vampire as stated on page 70 above the lore of deathmages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortumnas Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 I figured there was something I was missing. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ26 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Allegiance: Legion of SacramentArkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)- Lore of the Dead: Vile Transference (Vampires)Necromancer (110)- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness - Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming DreadNecromancer (110)- Artefact: Azyrbane Standard - Lore of the Deathmages: Fading VigourPrince Vhordrai (480)- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions10 x Dire Wolves (120)5 x Dire Wolves (60)40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)- Ancient Spears5 x Hexwraiths (160)Mortis Engine (180)Lords of Sacrament (70)Balewind Vortex (100)Total: 1990 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 12 the Idea is to overwhelming dread priority target turn 1 with the bale wind vortex . Vhordrai can turn 1 breath attack and Attempt short charge. Everything else is pretty standard. Squeezed in some hex wraiths bc they’re so good on paper but I’ve never actually play tested them in 2 years of playing death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 10 hours ago, Vortumnas said: Very similar to the list you posted in the tournament thread, thank you! I'd wondered how you would modify that to include the battalion Edit: Question - can the cloak of mists and shadows be used in every combat phase? RAW it seems like it's a free 12" move, which could be used to keep a necro up to speed with the faster parts of the battalion. Also, LoN states under Legion of Sacrament, Magic: "All Wizards... Know an additional spell from one of the Lores of the Dead." So, is it legal to then give a necro pinions? i dont mean to sound arrogant but i feel my style is to attempt to create a list that is as balanced as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortumnas Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 9 hours ago, LJ26 said: the Idea is to overwhelming dread priority target turn 1 with the bale wind vortex . Vhordrai can turn 1 breath attack and Attempt short charge. Everything else is pretty standard. Squeezed in some hex wraiths bc they’re so good on paper but I’ve never actually play tested them in 2 years of playing death. That idea with the BWV is quite clever, overcomes the problem of 1st turn spell range for at least 2 castings, 3 w Vhordrais command ability, possibly 4 w locus of shyish. Ouch! 2 hours ago, Josh said: i dont mean to sound arrogant but i feel my style is to attempt to create a list that is as balanced as possible Not at all, your input has been most beneficial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ26 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Don't forget that in a pinch Arkhan can use vhordrais signature spell for +1 to hit and wound making him much scarier in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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