Let's chat: The Farstriders

[Skyeline]

Generally my experience reflects what @Red_Zeke said up above. If I'm fortunate enough to draw it going into turn 2, I'm usually pretty comfortable that I'll get a chance to score it before the game is over. I'm happy enough with it that I'll be keeping it in my Farstrider decks.

I'll also be giving a Hyper aggressive deck with Dauntless and Sigmar's Finest a whirl this weekend. The one thing that gives me some pause is that a couple of my usual opponents like to run Annihilation. I get the feeling I'm going to give up some turn 3 five glory swings while experimenting with this deck.

Maybe Army Of One will finally fall into the list of cards that I actually like. Might even try out Second In Command. That was a card I'd never thought I'd put into a deck.

[Skellisquad]

@Red_Zeke Here's the hybrid deck I ran at the last, and my first, tournament.  Beat Orruks twice, lost in close matches to Orruks and Reavers

Objectives (12)
205 - Brave but Cautious
235 - Alone in the Darkness
246 - Concerted Attack
254 - Determined Defender
272 - Master of War
282 - Ploymaster
284 - Precise Use of Force
291 - Superior Tactician
293 - Swift Advance
296 - Tactical Supremacy 1-2
297 - Tactical Supremacy 3-4
298 - The Bigger They Are

Ploys (10)
218 - Rangers, Advance
219 - Rapid Volley
310 - Confused Priorities
323 - Flickering Step
329 - Great Concussion
331 - Hidden Paths
342 - Momentary Madness
349 - Rebound
354 - Second Wind
361 - Spectral Wings

Upgrades (10)
228 - Overcharged Boltstorm Pistol
232 - Well-timed Lunge
373 - A Destiny to Meet
376 - Awakened Weapon
378 - Concealed Weapon
387 - Flickering Image
409 - Shadeglass Axe
424 - Tethered Spirit
432 - Trickster's Charm
437 - Zealous Defender

 

Never scored the Tactical Supremecies. In10 games Momentary Madness triggered once and then missed. Card is now in the bin. along with Second Wind which was played once. Other changes have been to put in Quick Thinker and Sprint. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Skellisquad

[Malakree]

So now that the grand clash this weekend is over I'm not so bothered about posting my list. It was about two months of tuning and I expect the new cards will be out before the next one.

Won 3 lost 1 round to the guy who finished the Swiss in first after three really close games.

The twist is that I'm running kataphranes in the deck. An inspired eagle eye with furious blow 3 relics, army of one and guard is rolling 3 defence dice with reroll on any and if the attack fails you can retaliate on 3 hammers 3 damage rerolling.

It can get very vicious. Second in command is there to stop people scoring off your hyper aggressive play and open options for victorious duel even if farstriders is dead.

Dauntless/sigmars finest means that an opponent killing 2 fighters actually scores YOU 4 glory and brings army of one online.

I think with the leader pack I should be able to fill the last 2 objective slots I've struggled to fill and really make it go. This is all even with the beta rule in place.

Honestly farstriders might be the best aggressive warband in the game. I regularly demolish orruks and Magors is a close match where they play defensive. 

[Skyeline]

I had a feeling you were keeping the list close to the chest until your tourney was over. Sounds like it served you very well. Hearing that Kataphrane's are in your deck (With the beta rules no less!) is a hell of a twist!

It sounds like getting Army of One is a crucial part of getting this strategy up and running to add that third defense dice. Are you putting a lot of effort into pulling it prior to the start of turn 2 if it didn't show up in your natural draws? It feels like not having that in hand and being left with one fighter would put you in a risky situation, even if you get 2 kats up on them to add the rerolls in.

 

[Skellisquad]

Well done @Malakree. My newly created aggro Farstriders finished 2 places behind you! My loss was to a skelli key deck. Which was a close game but went the wrong way in game 3. I getting the feel for the deck and it’s a lot more fun then the run around Farstriders. 

More tweaks required but manly more experience with it. Thanks for the inspire. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Skellisquad

[Malakree]

22 minutes ago, Skyeline said:

I had a feeling you were keeping the list close to the chest until your tourney was over. Sounds like it served you very well. Hearing that Kataphrane's are in your deck (With the beta rules no less!) is a hell of a twist!

It sounds like getting Army of One is a crucial part of getting this strategy up and running to add that third defense dice. Are you putting a lot of effort into pulling it prior to the start of turn 2 if it didn't show up in your natural draws? It feels like not having that in hand and being left with one fighter would put you in a risky situation, even if you get 2 kats up on them to add the rerolls in.

 

I play around the upgrades and objectives I get. I pack 2 defensive upgrades and aren't that dependent on it. Also because I'm going aggressive I often put through a kill and a bunch of early damage playing the grind game since I win it.

The 2/3 set kata is really the key bit since even rerolling 2 def dice makes you tanky as hell with guard up. And your attacks when inspired are equally rude with rerolls.

If eagle eye goes down early then farstrider rerolling on his bird is amazing for crit fishing. Plus the range means you can control the early game fights to be as aggressive as you want them to be. Got dauntless in hand? First action charge with swiftblade, got something else you can just take first action shoot instead.

Farstriders are super flexible even if you are playing them hyper aggressive. 

Oh and in case you were wondering yes I did manage to kataphrane someone in one of my games, I don't play for it but the threat is very real.

[Red_Zeke]

This deck and strategy is buck. wild.  I am loving the creativity!

[Red_Zeke]

On 5/31/2018 at 1:32 AM, Skellisquad said:

 

Never scored the Tactical Supremecies. In10 games Momentary Madness triggered once and then missed. Card is now in the bin. along with Second Wind which was played once. Other changes have been to put in Quick Thinker and Sprint. 

Sound like good moves to me.  I don't actually do a ton of charges early in the round with Farstriders, so I think that reduces the value of Second Wind.  Quick Thinker, on the other hand, is suuuuuper money, especially since a fighter can step away from danger but counterstrike later with shooting.  Sprint is an interesting one!

[acadmo]

4 hours ago, Malakree said:

Honestly farstriders might be the best aggressive warband in the game. I regularly demolish orruks and Magors is a close match where they play defensive. 

My thoughts exactly. My wake up call was when I played against my friend after brainstorming counters for few weeks with him and getting demolished by them day by day(I guess I have won with Magores a few times but I dont want to play them ;_;). At the end of it I asked him what is it that he fears the most when going to the tournament.

"A mirror match".

I am more and more inclined to think that Army of One is a problem card. It shouldn't be touched I think but is not very well designed either(and Farstriders make use of this broken design much better than Steelhearts).

Edited June 1, 2018 by acadmo

[Skellisquad]

Quote

I am more and more inclined to think that Army of One is a problem card. It shouldn't be touched I think but is not very well designed either(and Farstriders make use of this broken design much better than Steelhearts).

It's not broken. One bad roll and your dead, and it will happen. I've lost count of the number of times I've had consecutive misses with 3 dice attacks. Also, if your opponent isn't interested in attacking you its not so great. 

I'd been experimenting with the Relics before the rules change and loved the re-rolls with my sniper Farstriders. I'd stopped the experiment after the rules change. Clearly I shouldn't have.

[acadmo]

9 hours ago, Skellisquad said:

It's not broken. One bad roll and your dead, and it will happen. I've lost count of the number of times I've had consecutive misses with 3 dice attacks. Also, if your opponent isn't interested in attacking you its not so great. 

I'd been experimenting with the Relics before the rules change and loved the re-rolls with my sniper Farstriders. I'd stopped the experiment after the rules change. Clearly I shouldn't have.

It's not broken in the "op" sort of way. It's broken because only 2 out of 8 factions, arguably the ones that need it/deserve it the least(2 shield defence) can use it. In itself it is worth more than two cards(it's like better acrobatic + better light armour). It is conditional but Farstriders can usually complete its condition fairly easily. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by acadmo

[Malakree]

17 minutes ago, acadmo said:

It's not broken in the "op" sort of way. It's broken because only 2 out of 8 factions, arguably the ones that need it/deserve it the least(2 shield defence) can use it. In itself it is worth more than two cards(it's like better acrobatic + better light armour). It is conditional but Farstriders can usually complete its condition fairly easily. 

I'd argue that any of the factions who have an individually powerful fighter is able to use army of one well. The reason it's strong in farstriders is down to the 3hex range and furious blow upgrades (imo). That doesn't mean it's not solid as hell on Gurzag, Magor or Riptooth. Imagining Riptooth with triple defence dice and 4 dice attack is terrifying.

It really depends what comes out in the next pack tbh since my guess is that will be a balance patch for the game. Plus, as it focuses on the "leaders", it might make army of one better for the other warbands. 

[acadmo]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

I'd argue that any of the factions who have an individually powerful fighter is able to use army of one well. The reason it's strong in farstriders is down to the 3hex range and furious blow upgrades (imo). That doesn't mean it's not solid as hell on Gurzag, Magor or Riptooth. Imagining Riptooth with triple defence dice and 4 dice attack is terrifying.

It really depends what comes out in the next pack tbh since my guess is that will be a balance patch for the game. Plus, as it focuses on the "leaders", it might make army of one better for the other warbands. 

Yeah it can be used in the other factions but it is a loooot less consistent(so usually not worth putting in). 

Yep the 3/4 hex range is the reason, If you put an Army of One on any of the Steelhearts, he will charge once, get a bonus die on attack and thats it. 

Farstriders don't need to charge so they will get bonus attack die every activation while having 3 dice on defence. You can't run away and you can't kill them. If the last guy is the Eagle Eye/Swiftblade(don't remeber his name) with furious blow you literally can't kill him(I mean you can but in the meantime he will kill your whole warband).

To be honest I am hoping for some voltron counters. Maybe a ploy/upgrade that destroys an upgrade under certain conditions(like one model having 3 of them) for example. 

I don't think Army of One is that strong other than Farstriders. I can live with it against Steelheart's.

Edited June 2, 2018 by acadmo

[Daveman]

I'm curious... in a tournament setting, how do you adjust once your opponent knows you're hoping he kills off 2 of your fighters?  With or without relics?

[Malakree]

1 minute ago, Daveman said:

I'm curious... in a tournament setting, how do you adjust once your opponent knows you're hoping he kills off 2 of your fighters?  With or without relics?

You're playing an aggressive combat deck which inspires for being in his territory. 

Just drop them if you pull them and kill him, he can't NOT fight back or you just go crazy on him.

[Anthony225]

So what is this infamous aggressive farstriders deck build all the fuss is about? 

And how does it work?

[SirSolomon]

Malakree...

Any chance you can post your full deck?

If you don't want to I understand. You playing tournaments and all.

[Skellisquad]

@Malakree's deck can be found here https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,272,293,251,273,243,234,305,235,259,281,291,212,369,329,331,343,347,362,348,218,222,220,375,408,226,227,396,397,398,399,400,401

Edited June 5, 2018 by Skellisquad

[SirSolomon]

Thanks!

[Malakree]

7 hours ago, SirSolomon said:

Malakree...

Any chance you can post your full deck?

If you don't want to I understand. You playing tournaments and all.

If they hadn't already posted it I wouldn't have put up the full list. More giving the general idea of what I'm doing/running so that people can play around with it themselves. As it is I don't feel as though it's going to be super easy to use/abuse the list (like some other kataphrane's decks....) and I'll probably be switching things up with the leader pack anyway so I'm not to bothered.

[fishwaffle2232]

I love the sound of these aggressive decks, have people tried them without relics? If so what objectives were you running and what upgrades.

My issue with aggressive farstriders is that against other aggressive decks you are risking a lot by pushing with just 3 models. Farstriders arent particularly punchy in comparison to others and against warbands like orruks and magores they can definitely be one shotted when pushing up.  Even with dauntless and sigmars finest it seems like it is a high risk strategy against an aggressive opponent. Losing 1-2 models in the first phase puts you in a very compromised position to prevent your opponent having free reign of the board to score easy objectives. On the flipside if your opponent isnt killing your guys or you kill too many that 4 potential glory you arent able to get. 

As someone who is yet to try the aggressive deck, how do these matchups tend to go against other aggressive decks? 

I run a 'mixed tempo' objective list with both supremecies and both tac supremecies and I like the balance this list gives. If your strategy fails at first (not getting supremecy and eternal supremecy) and you lose an early casualty you still have the 2 glory supremecies to work with. In addition being able to focus on defensive ploys/upgrades, and movement shennanigans also makes it easier to weather the storm of an aggessive deck to starve them of early glory.

Are people having more success with aggressive lists or more conservative defensive lists. 

[Skyeline]

@fishwaffle2232 Prior to this weekend where I gave Malakree's deck a shot I've been running an aggressive deck that I've been having solid results with against my local (admittedly small) meta. I'll drop a link to the list below, though it's not set in stone as I have been continuing to play around with different objectives primarily.

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,343,219,218,334,329,369,347,215,357,348,231,229,225,232,376,227,393,395,389,384,204,211,272,305,247,293,252,234,253,284,243,257

Against Objective decks it's straight forward. Get into their side. Kill things.

Against Agro decks  I usually play a pretty reserved turn one. I really only want to try and kill one fighter and get out whatever boltstorm chip damage I can get on other fighters (Agro skaven are a whole different story).

Turn two is where I try to turn up the aggression with at least one form of a 3 damage attack (Flashing Handaxe, Well-Timed Lunge, or Inspired Eagle-Eye) and ploys that increase damage (Shattering Terrain, Trap, Lightning Blow). I can also usually get my warband into the midfield by now, if not at least one into the opponents territory to snag an inspiration. 

Turn three is simply a continuation of two. I'm starting to look for Denial and/or Conquest at this point as my endgame, and playing accordingly.

[Daveman]

My Farstrider deck is almost identical. The one notable difference is I put in some Shadeglass weapons instead of the Farstrider and Swiftblade specific upgrades.  Too often I've lost one or both and wound up with dead cards in my hand.  The Shadeglass weapons may only be one shot, but they're a nice upgrade over the default melee attacks and can be used by anyone. In Shadespire, you often just need one good strike to work to make a difference anyway. 

As you said, my round 1 is usually passive, hoping to score some easy instant objectives for upgrades and draw some new objectives, maybe pick off someone if there are 2-3 health targets, and keep them from scoring. If round 1 ends 2 or 3 to 0 that's a good start.  Put down some upgrades and go on the offensive round 2. 

I use Inspiration Strikes and Hidden Paths as well. Both are easy ways to inspire even if I need to go passive. Hidden Paths is also great for sneaking an upgraded soldier into their backfield and cause trouble, and inspire them too. 

[fishwaffle2232]

I love the look of that deck looks like a lot of fun. I especially like that shattering terrain combo, I hadn't considered that, but an extra 'trap' with the potential to do 2 extra damage with overcharged boltcharge is nasty!

Daveman you also make a good point about the shadeglass weapons and I wouldnt mind testing this a bit more too. As i have had the problem of wasted upgrades many times. 

Have you guys tried out dauntless and sigmars finest? I feel like they could be very strong in aggro decks on paper but im not sure how often they would score in reality especially if you are killing lots of things. 

Also how often are you scoring denial? Seems like its a really easy objective to deny. Would an tac supremecy be easier to score in the final round when the board is a bit clearer? Also these could be scored any round giving you more versatility for early to mid game scoring. 

Again things I am just thinking about trying out but I like the versatility of farstriders to be able to shift their tactics midfight based on the matchup. I wonder if trying a more mixed approach is a better way to play these guys than pure objectives or pure aggression?

Edited June 12, 2018 by fishwaffle2232

[Skyeline]

I couldn't give you a solid number on how often I score Denial, but I do like having it in my deck. Against objective based warbands I feel I can score it pretty reliably, and it's a toss up against agro decks. To a degree I chalk this up to my local meta not having much in the way of speed. Lots of agro warbands with average movement (virtually no reavers or skaven) who don't really run movement ploys that let them suddenly dive deeper into my territory later in the game.

Since I did give Malakree's deck a shot over the weekend I got my first chance to try Dauntless and Sigmar's Finest. It was never much of a challenge to score them given that I was deploying way up and smashing right into them turn 1. Most of the time I didn't go into turn two with 2 dead Farstriders already (Opponents getting through 8 HP in just four activations isn't a sure thing) which made me start to feel like getting them in my turn one hand wasn't really a good thing.

I'm probably going to start tinkering around with running a variant on Malakree's setup without the Katophrane Relics (which I had no end of trouble trying to get up and running effectively every game, but I consider that due to my lack of practice with the deck). If nothing else I'm definitely going to try fitting in Dauntless, Sigmar's Finest, and Army of One to experiment with.