From Shadespire to Skirmish

[boomr19]

So I only have Shadespire stuff right now, (I sold other stuff a while back while I was working on school) and am thinking about how to expand my forces for skirmish. I really like the skirmish format. I want to make war bands for each grand alliance, and have a spreadsheet planned out with how I might fill out a skirmish force for each, but I wanted to see what others think Does anyone have any suggestions for expanding from Shadespire to skirmish? Possibly cheaper ways? I know that obviously it depends on what you like to play but I want to know if anyone else is thinking about this route from Shadespire to skirmish. 

Current plan:
Order : 
- Liberators Shadespire (already have)
- Hammerstrike brethren skirmish box
- Lord Relictor (or Knight Azyros)

Destruction
- Ironskulls Boyz Shadespire (already have)
- Weirdnob Warband
- Fungoid Cave Shaman
- Box of Moonclan grits

Death:
- Sepulchral Guard Shadespire (already have)
- Barrow Lords Deathrattle Allied Box
- Nighthaunt tormented spirits allied box

Chaos (Want to do skaven)
- Spiteclaw’s swarm Shadespire (already have)
- A mix of stormvermin, some night runners, maybe some plague monks, and I’m not sure what else. (Need help/suggestions here)

 

 

[RuneBrush]

Shadespire certainly does provide a nice stepping stone into Skirmish.  The one thing I would say is that you're not limited to sticking within a single faction, so you could quite feasibly have some Freeguild troops led by a Knight Venator and supported by some Duardin, if you paint them up and base them similarly, the overall warband will still look cohesive.

I think the only Shadespire warband that I don't think makes a good basis for a Skirmish force is the Sepulchral Guard as Skeleton Warriors are pretty mediocre and not very resilient.

Depending on what you want to do there are various ways.  In addition to the Warband boxes you've got games like Warhammer Quest which have quite an abundance of models.  I also think that eBay (or similar auction site) is a good place to hunt, as you probably can pick up single models pretty cheaply - the Trade forum on here is another shout for that.

[someone2040]

In general, I think you've basically chosen good boxed sets that independently make a good Skirmish force, and the fact you can add your Shadespire warbands onto them is just icing on the cake in a way (or perhaps your way of putting some more interesting models into it).

So all of them look like pretty sensible choices.

I will mention though, that under 'skirmish proper' you may struggle to fit some of the models in. For example, arguably you need 5 Liberators before you can actually use a Grandweapon - while your Shadespire models already include 2 Liberators with grand weapons. 

 

I think for Skaven a good choice would be trying to hunt down some of the stuff that comes in the Island of Blood/Spire of Dawn. You can score yourself a Warlock Engineer and some Rat Ogors and a packmaster which would make interesting choices in Skirmish (possibly the weapon teams as well?). You could also grab a few more clanrats this way on the cheap as well. 

After that, it's a bit tougher as all the kits come in units of 20, which is a bit overkill for just a Skirmish force. But ultimately you can choose whatever direction you want to go from here.

It's a bit of a shame for Skaven though that many of the more interesting units are actually finecast (Jezzails, Gutter Runners, Globadiers, Censor Bearers, etc) and hence don't have 'official renown', but most people play allowing the unnofficial renown points, so those are some other options you might be interested in pursuing.

[DinoTitanedition]

I actually looked through the Sahdespire boxes some day ago, as a friend of mine wanted to use them as his base for skirmish. We usually play around 25 to 30 points, as those are the sizes for real quick games:

 

Stormcast:

The Stormcast box can be used with one additional Liberator, the sworded guy representing a Knight Questor. Additional weapon options can be used from three models up according to Skirmish rules as far as I know.

 

Reavers/Khorne:

The one warband that definitely needs more models. Probably a good option is to combine them with the upcoming Khorne warband.

 

Sepulchral Guard:

Make the leader a Wight King and give him a sword, or simply buy an additional model for that purpose. Skeletons might not be super resiliant, but there`s a lot of them.

 

Skaven:

Basically a complete warband. Best set in my opinion.

 

Ironskull`s Boyz:

Needs a hero. Warchanter is the best one to go at that amount of reknown.

 

Fireslayers:

Complete warband.

 

 

Expanding the warband later on to bigger sizes is a matter of taste by then.

 

[flemingmma]

My thoughts on starting skirmish. 

[Mr. White]

You could also probably play Skirmish using only the Shadespire warbands and nothing more. I mean, in this first set of 8 warbands, one could run an Order GA Skirmish gang with 10 models (6 Stormcast and 4 Fyreslayers). Chaos could combine an alliance between the 9 Khorne models and the 5 skaven for a 14 model warband. As Skirmish sees new seasons/editions/settings we'll only be getting more and more models to pull from and flesh out Death and Destruction enough.

All one needs to do is buy Shadespire warbands and that ~$10 Skirmish book...

[boomr19]

Thanks all of you for the replies, this gives me some great ideas with how to go forward.  I had forgotten that there is going to be more warbands than the original 8, and the teasers seem like there might be some more death coming (maybe nighthaunt from the card preview?).  I guess I'm getting excited about lots of possibilities that I may be planning too much too soon.  Updated plan is to get some really cheap, or single other models to convert to heroes for the warbands.  

For order: I can run my converted Steelheart as a knight questor.  I also have the dwarf shadespire set so that's a complete order warband there.

For Death: get either a skeleton for a wight king (I like the converted wight king from flemingmma's post) or maybe a secondhand tomb banshee plus a few more skeletons, 

For Destruction: I still love the idea of moonclan grots with the orcs, so maybe ~10 moonclan grots secondhand, and I can convert 1 to be a Moonclan grot shaman

For Chaos: Use skritch Spiteclaw as a Skaven Warlord, and I could run the bloodreavers with them, so no new models needed

I really like having a small warband of each Grand Alliance, and it makes it easier for me to get others to play if i have a warband for them to use.  I also love the idea that Shadespire can double count for AOS, and especially for skirmish because I like playing a little bit shorter games.  Also, for a campaign type play, instead of using renown to put more models into the warband, I could use something like the Aos28 skirmish system by GuitaRasmus, or the Heroic Skirmish system by hellalugosi to upgrade individual models, to still give a sense of progression in a campaign, without having to necessarily get more models than the shadespire sets (plus a couple more as needed).

[boomr19]

Ok, so I have another question,  I don't know a lot about blood bowl, but I was looking at the skaven blood bowl team, and I was wondering if anyone has used them for models in skirmish?  I'm not quite sure which models would correspond to which war scrolls, does anyone have any insight into that?

[Circus of Paint]

15 hours ago, boomr19 said:

Ok, so I have another question,  I don't know a lot about blood bowl, but I was looking at the skaven blood bowl team, and I was wondering if anyone has used them for models in skirmish?  I'm not quite sure which models would correspond to which war scrolls, does anyone have any insight into that?

As the models are, you’d find them quite difficult to make them fit any existing warscroll.

With converting however, you could probably make some Clanrats / Stormvermin and a single Gutter Runner.

[Pariah]

They might work as either of the Clan Eshin units.  All except the throwers seem like they would work for AoS, of course they might look a little out of place if they are painted as football players. 

[boomr19]

On 4/8/2018 at 9:07 AM, Pariah said:

They might work as either of the Clan Eshin units.  All except the throwers seem like they would work for AoS, of course they might look a little out of place if they are painted as football players. 

Yeah I definitely will paint them to look for AoS, and also try and maybe convert with some halberds or other weapon bits.  One thing I’m trying to find out, is how big they are compared to normal clanrats or stormvermin.  I cannot find a pic on the internet where they are next to normal skaven for a size comparison.  

[Circus of Paint]

Clanrats and the Skaven team are to scale, although the former all have very closed poses and the latter usually have a wide stance and open arms.

[MightyMetro]

On 04/04/2018 at 4:00 PM, someone2040 said:

... under 'skirmish proper' you may struggle to fit some of the models in. For example, arguably you need 5 Liberators before you can actually use a Grandweapon - while your Shadespire models already include 2 Liberators with grand weapons. 

As I already use the unofficial points for skirmish, as posted elsewhere on tga, I would cheat a little bit in this situation.

I would allow an opponent to include the entire steelhearts warband for 20 points with their unique  warscroll. Match play / 5 seems to be the best formula for newer models.

I would also suggest that the Sigmarite Shield only applys to Angharad  Brightshield. 

Similarly, Garreks Reavers would cost 12 points and Grisly Trophy only applies to Garrek Gorebeard.

 

Some ideas for cheap warbands:

For an extra £20, Storm of Sigmar would take your SCE to 48 points and you Bloodbound to a more limited  29 points.  A Khrone Aspiring Deathbringer for £8.20 would the give you 16 points you need, if you want similar point levels

Not the most creative lists but only £28.20 for 45-48 points each.

 

Another way to expand Garreks Reavers thematically would be to add them to a Slaves of Darkness warband with Marks of Khrone:

Garrek’s Reavers (12), 3 Chaos Warriors (12pt, £6), 1 Exhalted Hero of Chaos* (£16pt, £8) = 40 points for £14.

Switch the Exhalted Hero for a Chaos Sorceror (28pt, £9) and you have 52pts for £15.

* Check out the Exalted Hero’s warscroll before commiting to this as it does match all the model options

On 04/04/2018 at 7:08 PM, DinoTitanedition said:

Probably a good option is to combine them with the upcoming Khorne warband.

Finally, as suggested, Migore’s Fiends approx 16 points, Garreks Reavers 12, and 3 Chaos Warriors 12pt/£6 = 40pts

The new Farstriders would be approx 18 points combined with Steelhearts 20 =38.

Upon release, we will get to see their match play points. I guess around 40 points each and two new Underworlds warbands for £41 altogether.

 

[boomr19]

32 minutes ago, MightyMetro said:

As I already use the unofficial points for skirmish, as posted elsewhere on tga, I would cheat a little bit in this situation.

I would allow an opponent to include the entire steelhearts warband for 20 points with their unique  warscroll. Match play / 5 seems to be the best formula for newer models.

I would also suggest that the Sigmarite Shield only applys to Angharad  Brightshield. 

Similarly, Garreks Reavers would cost 12 points and Grisly Trophy only applies to Garrek Gorebeard.

 

Some ideas for cheap warbands:

For an extra £20, Storm of Sigmar would take your SCE to 48 points and you Bloodbound to a more limited  29 points.  A Khrone Aspiring Deathbringer for £8.20 would the give you 16 points you need, if you want similar point levels

Not the most creative lists but only £28.20 for 45-48 points each.

 

Another way to expand Garreks Reavers thematically would be to add them to a Slaves of Darkness warband with Marks of Khrone:

Garrek’s Reavers (12), 3 Chaos Warriors (12pt, £6), 1 Exhalted Hero of Chaos* (£16pt, £8) = 40 points for £14.

Switch the Exhalted Hero for a Chaos Sorceror (28pt, £9) and you have 52pts for £15.

* Check out the Exalted Hero’s warscroll before commiting to this as it does match all the model options

Finally, as suggested, Migore’s Fiends approx 16 points, Garreks Reavers 12, and 3 Chaos Warriors 12pt/£6 = 40pts

The new Farstriders would be approx 18 points combined with Steelhearts 20 =38.

Upon release, we will get to see their match play points. I guess around 40 points each and two new Underworlds warbands for £41 altogether.

 

Thanks a lot for this reply,  I really like the idea of using the shadespire with the specific rules from their warscrolls, instead of as generic liberators.  This allows the flavor of the shadespire bands to come out in the skirmish setting.  

[TheOtherJosh]

So, Warband models are purchased individually, not as a “block”.

The base calculation for the conversion from AoS points to Renown is (Unit cost divided by 5) Divided by number of models in the unit (and rounded to the nearest whole number.)

For the SCE:

That is (100/5)/3 = 6.6667 -> 7 points each... for a Warband cost of 21.

Reavers on the other hand are over twice as expensive as as their baseline unit... so:

(60/5)/5 = 2.4 -> 2

For a Warband cost of 10 (which is 2x as expensive as the baseline Bloodreavers which cost 1 renown each)

Magore’s Fiends:

Magore’s Bloodwarriors

(80/5)/3 = 5.33 -> 5 renown each model

15 for the Bloodwarriors

Fleshhound:

(40/5)/1 = 8

So Magore’s Fiends total is (15+8) = 23 Renown

[MightyMetro]

3 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

So, Warband models are purchased individually, not as a “block”.

The base calculation for the conversion from AoS points to Renown is (Unit cost divided by 5) Divided by number of models in the unit (and rounded to the nearest whole number.)

For the SCE:

That is (100/5)/3 = 6.6667 -> 7 points each... for a Warband cost of 21.

Reavers on the other hand are over twice as expensive as as their baseline unit... so:

(60/5)/5 = 2.4 -> 2

For a Warband cost of 10 (which is 2x as expensive as the baseline Bloodreavers which cost 1 renown each)

 

Sure, I’d agree with this. I have used this formula in the past for regular units.

I guess I have always  considered the Shadespire sets differently and selected them as a set.  No reason to do that!  So, im happy to be corrected!  I’ll stick with Josh’s formula.

Interestingly, I just noticed that  units like Spiteclaws Swarm identify Spiteclaw as a hero and the swarm as a seperate unit.  Steelheart’s Champions do not, however, identify Severin Steelheart as an independent hero.

@TheOtherJosh Does this mean that i should not use Severin as a warband general, but Spiteclaw is okay?  

I guess this may be something to houserule as Severin was in my opinion better suited  to the small scale skirmish games than other SCE heroes. They often felt a little too powerful!

[TheOtherJosh]

40 minutes ago, MightyMetro said:

Does this mean that i should not use Severin as a warband general, but Spiteclaw is okay?  

Correct. Spiteclaw is a HERO  and Severin is not. Warbands are lead by a HERO in Skirmish.

Spiteclaw’s Swarm:

Spiteclaw:

(120/5)/1 = 24 Renown

Spiteclaws ‘minions’:

(30/5)/4 = 1.5 points -> 2 Renown (this is a potentially debatable value ... given that they refresh I lean towards that higher renown value of 2, absent any calculations from GW)

So, the ‘minions’ would be a cost of 8 Renown. For a total Warband size of 32 Renown.

[TheOtherJosh]

Like everything ... you could houserule anything you’d like ... just talk it out with your opponent