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Destruction at Adepticon


PlasticCraic

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8 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I am just flat against anything which ignores all rend AND can still gain buff to save. It's one half of the incestuous mortal wound problem.

I don't mind nighthaunt because they can't get save buffs aswell.

I don't disagree.  

I highly dislike the complete immunity to Rend.  It seems to me that it would have been better if they had something more like the Seraphon shield rules.  

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2 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

I don't disagree.  

I highly dislike the complete immunity to Rend.  It seems to me that it would have been better if they had something more like the Seraphon shield rules.  

Just have it say "Their save cannot be reduced below 4+" so that they are immune to rend if there are no buffs, but the moment they start getting save buffs then rend starts to come into play. It stops us having 2+ unrendable saves while also maintaining the heart of the ability.

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i think GW had a very good structure early in AoS: Few model with better than 4+ save, few save reroll and few save buff, and limited access to mortal wound for most army. Also few long range attack beside war machine.

Then with the release of Sylvaneth battletome, they broke that "structure": Easy acces to high rerollable save, mortal wound spam, non-warmachine longrange units (kurnouth). Then it goes downfall because you need new army to compete with those asset... 

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22 minutes ago, broche said:

i think GW had a very good structure early in AoS: Few model with better than 4+ save, few save reroll and few save buff, and limited access to mortal wound for most army. Also few long range attack beside war machine.

Then with the release of Sylvaneth battletome, they broke that "structure": Easy acces to high rerollable save, mortal wound spam, non-warmachine longrange units (kurnouth). Then it goes downfall because you need new army to compete with those asset... 

Bingo - when Battletome Sylvaneth made damage obsolete, everything since has been trying to fix that up in an ever-growing spiral, with armies on the outside of that loop falling further and further behind.

In that context, it's interesting that this one Idoneth unit is going back to being broken in the original way (largely immune to normal damage, although at least they don't have army-wide rerollable saves as far as we are aware).  Whereas all other releases since have been ramping up the mortal wounds -> immunity to mortal wounds "fix". 

That doesn't help armies like Ironjawz who are on the outside looking in against either of the above, but it's still interesting I thought.  In the sense that it makes them excellent against older armies (in the same way that Sylvaneth still are), but it doesn't help them much against a barrage of mortal wounds at infinite range.

I like @Malakree's suggestion of a "worst-case" save of 4+, rather than being able to buff it up then ignore rend from there.

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On 11.4.2018 at 4:44 PM, tchad78 said:

It seems like you could drastically change your chances of winning on 3d6 getting a 7.  Prior to learning about the FAQ a bit ago in this thread I would have felt the 8" charge for d3 was required to win, but the extra 2 attacks per pig probably makes up for it.

 

I'm also 3 pigs shy of your list.  Squig lobba or Orc Warboss with banner on a pig were my thoughts.

Hi, I calculated the average damage output (Voice of Gork) with 15 Pigs and a Warboss with Banner and with 18 Pigs, I think it is clear what to choose (every unit of pigs has +1 to Hit because of the Warchanters) I didn't calculate the D3 damage from the 8" charge.

  avg. Damage Output with Saves, per Pig/all Pigs  
Pigs Weapon Attacks Attacks commulated To Hit To Wound chance of doing 1 damage avg. Damage per Pig avg. Damage per Pig commulated avg. Damage of all Pigs 6+ 5+ 4+ 3+  
18
Pig Choppa (rend -1) 5
198
83% 67% 56% 2.8
4.8
86.0
2.3 41.7 2.3 41.7 1.9 33.3 1.4 25.0
Without Banner
Fanged Maw and Hooves 6 67% 50% 33% 2.0 1.7 30.0 1.3 24.0 1.0 18.0 0.7 12.0
15
Pig Choppa (rend -1) 5
165
83% 89% 74% 3.7
6.7
100.6
3.1 46.3 3.1 46.3 2.5 37.0 1.9 27.8
With Banner
Fanged Maw and Hooves 6 67% 75% 50% 3.0 2.5 37.5 2.0 30.0 1.5 22.5 1.0 15.0

Should have calculated this before getting the Pigs :Dhopefully it is understandable.

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12 minutes ago, Hot Peanut said:

Hi, I calculated the damage output with 15 Pigs and a Warboss with Banner and with 18 Pigs, I think it is clear what to choose (every unit of pigs has +1 to Hit because of the Warchanters) I didn't calculate the D3 damage from the 8" charge.

  Damage Output with Saves, per Pig/all Pigs  
Pigs Weapon Attacks Attacks commulated To Hit To Wound chance of doing 1 damage Damage per Pig Damage per Pig commulated Damage of all Pigs 6+ 5+ 4+ 3+  
18
Pig Choppa (rend -1) 5
198
83% 67% 56% 2.8
4.8
86.0
2.3 41.7 2.3 41.7 1.9 33.3 1.4 25.0
Without Banner
Fanged Maw and Hooves 6 67% 50% 33% 2.0 1.7 30.0 1.3 24.0 1.0 18.0 0.7 12.0
15
Pig Choppa (rend -1) 5
165
83% 89% 74% 3.7
6.7
100.6
3.1 46.3 3.1 46.3 2.5 37.0 1.9 27.8
With Banner
Fanged Maw and Hooves 6 67% 75% 50% 3.0 2.5 37.5 2.0 30.0 1.5 22.5 1.0 15.0

hopefully it is understandable.

Should have calculated this before getting the Pigs :D

Awesome data.  My biggest concern now is going to be keeping the Warboss in range when the piggies fly their massive move down the board.  He's looking at a minimum 10" on boar.

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7 minutes ago, tchad78 said:

Awesome data.  My biggest concern now is going to be keeping the Warboss in range when the piggies fly their massive move down the board.  He's looking at a minimum 10" on boar.

Its 16 inches around, it should be not a problem.

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On 4/12/2018 at 4:56 PM, Hot Peanut said:

Its 16 inches around, it should be not a problem.

I did end up getting one 3 pack out of range due to a 1" run.  That said the pigs did great.  I'm still new-ish and decided to stay 8" or and charge.  We all made it!  I was so excited I forgot to roll d3 on the damage lol.  The pigs lived the whole game.  Last oinker had Arkhan about to finish him off when Gordrak exploded the stinkbag in one shot (gaining a wound!)

 

The Warboss was amazing.  I never realized how many 1's I roll.

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