Sympathy for Morathi

[Barking Agatha]

I find that I have a lot of sympathy for Morathi. She's my favourite protagonist now and I'm definitely on her side.

Basically, she has suffered beyond the imagining of it, and everyone is a ****** to her. She spent thousands of years being tortured in the belly of Slaanesh, managed to escape through nothing but her own sheer will, lost her memory, wandered lonely and desperate for ages, and then when she finally met the new gods who she used to know, including her own son... they snub her and reject her. You might argue that she isn't good and noble enough for their company, but keep in mind that this is a pantheon that cheerfully accepts Nagash, Gork, and Mork, even when they keep getting betrayed by them.

Then of course they need Morathi's help, and she gives it, in fact it's indispensable. And what does she get in return? More rejection and humiliation. Then they need her help again, and so on. It's true that she uses lies, murder, and manipulation to achieve her ends, but what other choice have they left her? Accept inferiority? Be a good servant? None of them would accept that, so why should she?

The Lords of Order drip with hypocrisy. They love having the Daughters of Khaine around when it comes to fighting Chaos, but then they get the conniptions at the sight of their blood rites. This from elite immortals who are happy to slaughter entire populations in the name of fighting corruption. It's hard not to think that they don't mind the killing, they just don't like them being unladylike about it!

Even the narration of her own book goes out of its way to be unfair to Morathi. For example, 'Bitter were Morathi's tears, for vanity had ever been her greatest failing.' Vanity, really? We're not talking a few crow's feet around the eyes here. Am I supposed to believe that the good and noble Sigmar wouldn't mind at all if he found himself with the body of a duck? 'For Justice and Honour, <quack>!' But if it's Morathi, then it's vanity... well, okay. It may be that she needs to come to terms with her new form, which I think is quite pretty in its own way, but come on, give her a break!

The truth of it is that Morathi is cast as a 'bad girl', and bad girls aren't supposed to get a break. Well I'm going to be very motivated playing my DoK now (when they're done!), and I sincerely hope that Morathi gets the power that she craves and gives them all the finger, including Slaanesh, Nagash, and the Lords of Order, those prissy, smug, self-righteous jerks!

[Vasshpit]

I felt the same upon reading the lore. Granted I knew nothing from the world that was...

I'll definitely get around to this army at some point. 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

I wouldn't go so far as to say the Stormcasts are "happy to slaughter entire populations", but I agree with the large part of your arguement.  And if vanity has always been a flaw of hers so freaking what?  Irrelevant.  She was devoured by a god of perversion and upon escaping found herself forced to bear many aspects of his likeness.  Of course she's going to be affected; this is a being whose beauty and elegance were unparalleled in all the world she was used to and now she's forced into the form of a being which tormented her for aeons.  This is more than vanity.  It's a constant reminder of her past suffering.

 

Too, I can understand Sigmar's perspective; one maniacal, blood-obsessed, frenzied berserker looks much like another to the uncorrupted people of the Mortal Realms (and the citizens of Azyrheim).  When you see someone, I don't know, tearing the heart from someone on a blood-drenched altar it'll probably cause some consternation regardless of whether they scream the name of Khaine or Khorne.

 

But shunning one of your few remaining allies because their methods are passe?  Bad call, Sigmar.  And this is the same guy who hand-feeds his Stormcasts to Nagash, hoping desperately for an alliance.  His priorities are not in order.  (Unexpected pun)

[Freejack02]

I thought it was going to be a song

[Scythian]

I would say I have sympathy for the Melusai, the Medusa’s, and most of the other mutants who were restored to life as living monsters. As for Morathi, I have none. She is a lying, duplicitous manipulator that is deceiving her own creations in order to serve her selfish interests. She sided with an equally traitorous Chaos god in order to advance her powers and was devoured for her temerity and foolishness. Everything that has happened to her for the millennia she’s been alive has been the result of her treachery.  Once the Khainites discover that she’s been preventing Khaine’s revival, she’s a dead woman! Even her own Melusai and Medusa’s will turn on her. Sorry, but Morathi represents the worst of elvenkind. 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

1 hour ago, Freejack02 said:

I thought it was going to be a song

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm elf of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul to taste

And I was 'round when Tyrion
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Teclis
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

 

(Not exactly how it went down... if anything it was Teclis who set things in motion)

[Hyperion]

I think most of the stuff that happened to her prior to her escape from slaanesh was a fate she weaved for herself. 

I do agree that she has been pretty much forced into her current position by the new gods.  And they are quite hypocritical towards how the cults operate. 

However she seems to be falling back into her old habits with the whole secret heart of khaine business (even though  it’s some badass story telling and gets me energized to paint and play this army) 

 

[PainfullyMediocre]

4 hours ago, Scythian said:

 Even her own Melusai and Medusa’s will turn on her. Sorry, but Morathi represents the worst of elvenkind. 

After reading the book, I don't think they will as they seem loyal to Morathi over Khaine.

I feel bad for her, but all of her problems are of her own creation.

[Aezeal]

13 hours ago, Barking Agatha said:

I find that I have a lot of sympathy for Morathi. She's my favourite protagonist now and I'm definitely on her side.

Basically, she has suffered beyond the imagining of it, and everyone is a ****** to her. She spent thousands of years being tortured in the belly of Slaanesh, managed to escape through nothing but her own sheer will, lost her memory, wandered lonely and desperate for ages, and then when she finally met the new gods who she used to know, including her own son... they snub her and reject her. You might argue that she isn't good and noble enough for their company, but keep in mind that this is a pantheon that cheerfully accepts Nagash, Gork, and Mork, even when they keep getting betrayed by them.

Then of course they need Morathi's help, and she gives it, in fact it's indispensable. And what does she get in return? More rejection and humiliation. Then they need her help again, and so on. It's true that she uses lies, murder, and manipulation to achieve her ends, but what other choice have they left her? Accept inferiority? Be a good servant? None of them would accept that, so why should she?

The Lords of Order drip with hypocrisy. They love having the Daughters of Khaine around when it comes to fighting Chaos, but then they get the conniptions at the sight of their blood rites. This from elite immortals who are happy to slaughter entire populations in the name of fighting corruption. It's hard not to think that they don't mind the killing, they just don't like them being unladylike about it!

Even the narration of her own book goes out of its way to be unfair to Morathi. For example, 'Bitter were Morathi's tears, for vanity had ever been her greatest failing.' Vanity, really? We're not talking a few crow's feet around the eyes here. Am I supposed to believe that the good and noble Sigmar wouldn't mind at all if he found himself with the body of a duck? 'For Justice and Honour, <quack>!' But if it's Morathi, then it's vanity... well, okay. It may be that she needs to come to terms with her new form, which I think is quite pretty in its own way, but come on, give her a break!

The truth of it is that Morathi is cast as a 'bad girl', and bad girls aren't supposed to get a break. Well I'm going to be very motivated playing my DoK now (when they're done!), and I sincerely hope that Morathi gets the power that she craves and gives them all the finger, including Slaanesh, Nagash, and the Lords of Order, those prissy, smug, self-righteous jerks!

I think you have a very biased view on things.. you shouldn't trust Khaine codices or Morathi's version of things :D. 

[Spiny Norman]

She's fine.

She got the worst rule design I ever witnessed....in her favor.

[BrAiKo]

14 hours ago, Barking Agatha said:

The Lords of Order drip with hypocrisy. They love having the Daughters of Khaine around when it comes to fighting Chaos, but then they get the conniptions at the sight of their blood rites. 

Preach.  Down with Sigmar the pretender!

There are other powers with no such prejudice.  Others who welcome all comers without judgement or discrimination.  Khaine may be dead, but the true bloody-handed god will gladly accept offerings in his stead.  Skulls for the skull throne!

[Twitch of Izalith]

Morathi is probably my favourite character from the fantasy side of GW - her and Vlad Von Carstein.

I'm not sure she really deserves a lot of sympathy though. In my opinion her unrelenting selfishness, her ambition and her ruthless manipulation of other people has always been what made her such a compelling protagonist. Morathi of old would not have asked for, or needed any sympathy. She would have just fixed it so anyone who made her angry suffered the consequences.

The last 2 chapters of her story have actually been the weakest from my point of view. In the end times book Gav Thorpe has her running around after Tyrion like a teenage fangirl because he reminds her of "her lost love" Aenerion. In the earlier fiction it was more like she was manipulating Aenerion to gain power in elven society and she got mightily p'd off because he ultimately rejected her for the Everqueen. I think he could have used a more "in character" plot mechanic to get the same results.

Now in AoS we have her feeling sorry for herself and crying because she's lonely. please . Fortunately in the same breath they have her building her own civilisation and taking a very much more positive, ambitious "i'm not gonna take it" attitude which is way cooler. You know that saying "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"? That should be Morathi in my opinion. 

14 hours ago, Barking Agatha said:

Even the narration of her own book goes out of its way to be unfair to Morathi. For example, 'Bitter were Morathi's tears, for vanity had ever been her greatest failing.' Vanity, really? We're not talking a few crow's feet around the eyes here. Am I supposed to believe that the good and noble Sigmar wouldn't mind at all if he found himself with the body of a duck? 'For Justice and Honour, <quack>!' But if it's Morathi, then it's vanity... well, okay. It may be that she needs to come to terms with her new form, which I think is quite pretty in its own way, but come on, give her a break!

I'm not meaning to be critical. I think its awesome that you like the character, and its fiction - so everybody gets to interpret her how they want but I wonder how familiar you are with her history in the old game? and its a long history. She had been a major player in the warhammer world for 2000 years before Nagash even learned his first spell.

This character is seriously vain. she had the gift of eternal beauty and shared only a portion of the secrets with Hellebron and the witch elves - not out of generosity but to control them by making them addicted to the cycle of rejuvenation - a cycle that got shorter every time and never worked quite as well as it did for her. Its totally Snow White "who's the fairest of them all" stuff. Her manipulation of the cult oh Khaine and possibly of Khaine himself is not a new thing.

In 8th edition when her sorceresses make Atharti (elven goddess of love/pleasure/beauty) mad by using magic to enhance their looks, Morathi escapes her anger because "she alone had felt her comeliness in no need of enhancement" (Atharti was the original creator of the bloodwrack medusa - its copy paste from the greek myth really)

In Khaine (end times book 3) Shadow blade gives her a shallow cut 1" long on her cheek and knocks her in the mud. She gets sooo angry about it that she murders all her handmaidens who come to help her up!

She's really vain - and I get what you mean that everyone is gonna be upset if they get turned into a monster (even a cool looking one ) but i think its a fair statement that its always been her biggest failing. 

Mostly she is still Morathi though - the short stories are both quite true to character and MOST of the battletome lore is good. I'm nervous and excited at the prospect of some new Black Library books!

She may be in Order but she is really just in grand alliance Morathi. I think the only sympathy around her should be for anyone who gets in her way!

[ledha]

Stormcast slaughtering populations is NOT the norm. They are not space marine. The "village slaughtering" is actually disturbing enough to be showcased and it's showed that the other stormhost and sigmar don't approve it at all, and it's clearly seen as a problem, not a "well, too bad, collateral damage"

[Edgecoc]

2 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I think you have a very biased view on things.. you shouldn't trust Khaine codices or Morathi's version of things :D. 

She is an Unreliable Narrator. 

[Kramer]

16 hours ago, Barking Agatha said:

sympathy for Morathi

a song by the 'rolling stone trolls?'

[GammaMage]

I actually like the Khaine-worshipping aspect of the DoK. Am hoping that the storyline keeps developing like it has so far. Really want the DoK to find out that Khorne reforged pieces of Khaine into Bloodthirster weapons, and go on an anti-Khorne bent for a bit. Also would be fun for them to eventually find out Morathi has been lying to them.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

2 hours ago, ledha said:

Stormcast slaughtering populations is NOT the norm. They are not space marine. The "village slaughtering" is actually disturbing enough to be showcased and it's showed that the other stormhost and sigmar don't approve it at all, and it's clearly seen as a problem, not a "well, too bad, collateral damage"

Out of curiousity, in what does a Chamber slaughter some village?  I've heard of it but I don't know what the source is.

[GammaMage]

It's the Knights Excelsior in one of the Malign Portent short stories. But I must point out that the Knights Excelsior are one of the most extreme chambers. They don't seem to have a problem with the Daughter's of Khaine's more bloody practicies either.

[Richelieu]

1 minute ago, GammaMage said:

It's the Knights Excelsior in one of the Malign Portent short stories. But I must point out that the Knights Excelsior are one of the most extreme chambers. They don't seem to have a problem with the Daughter's of Khaine's more bloody practicies either.

Yeah, it kinda makes me want to repaint my Stormcast in Knights Excelsior colors for use in the Shadowhammer Compact battalion...

[GammaMage]

1 minute ago, xking said:

"stormhost" not chamber.

I keep getting that wrong. 

[GammaMage]

I do know, I just keep using the wrong word.

[Twitch of Izalith]

2 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

Yeah, it kinda makes me want to repaint my Stormcast in Knights Excelsior colors for use in the Shadowhammer Compact battalion...

I had the same thought but since they are not in any of the pre-determined colour schemes - I did them in a polished silver and turquoise trim - I have decided its more trouble than its worth!

I definitely find them to be the most compelling of the stormhosts although the hallowed knights are kinda cool. I think I'm one of the few people who would like it if SCE were more like the Adeptus Astartes in general. I don't get it when people say "they are just AoS' version of Space marines" like its a bad thing. Some of the marine chapters are awesome.

[ZephyrExia]

I don't have much sympathy for Morathi. On one hand, she was dealt a poor hand (mostly through her own actions), and is generally untrusted by the other 'gods' (again mostly her fault).

On the other hand, she is actively usurping the balance of slaanesh's captivity through her greed and inflated ego, and betraying the trust of Malerion, the god who gave her a spot in his realm, and a tithe of souls of her own. 

Her self indulgement and egomania makes her (in my eyes) very unlikable, and deserving of whatever ill comes her way. 

[Richelieu]

4 minutes ago, ZephyrExia said:

and betraying the trust of Malerion, the god who gave her a spot in his realm, and a tithe of souls of her own. 

A) He doesn't trust her farther than he can throw a Stardrake

B) He gave her that spot in his realm as a cruel joke

C) He didn't "give" her a tithe of souls.  Their plan couldn't work without her.

D) None of that means I have any sympathy for her.   I don't.  I do, however think she is the most interesting character in AoS.

[Barking Agatha]

3 hours ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I'm not meaning to be critical. I think its awesome that you like the character, and its fiction - so everybody gets to interpret her how they want but I wonder how familiar you are with her history in the old game?

That's fair enough, but I still like to argue my side of things, for fun if nothing else! I'm reasonably familiar with her history. I haven't read all the books (and some of them are awful!) but I know the gist of it and I still have my 4th ed. Army Book around somewhere.

3 hours ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Now in AoS we have her feeling sorry for herself and crying because she's lonely. please .

That's rather cruel. Naughty girls need love too.

3 hours ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Its totally Snow White "who's the fairest of them all" stuff.

Well I also have a lot of sympathy for Grimhilde! Certainly more than for silly, helpless little Snow White. 'Someday my prince will come, tra la la,' indeed!

So Morathi is ruthless, brutal, and manipulative. So what? How else should she be, and what other means does she have to succeed? It's as if the narrative is judging her for not being content to 'know her place' and for getting 'above her station'. ****** that noise!

Besides, whatever 'sins' she may or may not be guilty of, she has certainly paid for them many times over. If the other gods -- especially Malerion, who wouldn't be anything but for her -- would simply help her achieve apotheosis and accept her into the pantheon, instead of rejecting her and treating her with contempt, then maybe they would gain a valuable ally (certainly more reliable than Nagash!) and she wouldn't have to resort to subterfuge, would she!