CanHammer-darren Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Hey everyone. What’s everyone running plot wise to balance between being good ploys and being “choose” ploys to inspire. I feel like Inspiring skrtch right away with s good ploy is key Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Be aware that there are several good ploys that should work according to the rules, but the Adepticon FAQ eliminates because of invented answers. They rule that the word "choose" must appear on the ploy, even though there is no basis for this. So, if you are among friends, you're good, but if this rewrite is used, just don't get surprised by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Why do you say that, Sleboda? The designers have been pretty clear on streams since release that having the word, "choose" on the card was the intention. Have I misunderstood you somehow? Which cards do you feel are being unfairly treated? For my part, Confuse and Sidestep are brilliant cards as far as inspiring our ratty fellows goes. Confuse especially- just keep Skritch and Krrk together, and play it asafp to inspire them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Sidestep is probably the best. In my deck I have Sidestep, Confusion, Illusory Fighter, Time Trap, and Musk of Fear. I think those are the most well rounded for Inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Kirjava13 said: Why do you say that, Sleboda? The designers have been pretty clear on streams since release that having the word, "choose" on the card was the intention. Have I misunderstood you somehow? "Choose" is a common English word that has not been redefined in the glossary or rules of the game, unlike, for example, "Attack." As it has no such in-game definition, we are, quite reasonably, left to use the word as we would in any other application outside of the game. In other words, there is nothing within the game to tell us to limit or redefine our understanding of a words like "last" or "after" (randomly chosen from Rebirth in Blood) so why would we do it for "chosen" or "choose?" So, all a ploy has to to do is pick/choose/select a Skaven to inspire it. But now we are told that the word "choose" must appear on the ploy. Prior to that FAQ, in dozens of games with/against them, it never once crossed it group's minds that the (lower case, I'll point out) "choose" on the fighter cards required a match to the same word on a ploy. I am currently out of state caring for a dying relative, so I don't have access to my card decks, and using the website to go through hundreds of cards one click at a time to find examples is impractical. In a few months when I get home, I will find examples. Edit: I did happen to remember one. To use Aversion to Death, you must know which two friendly fighters you are pushing. They are not randomly selected. You must choose which ones to push. It's a ploy. You chose the skaven to push. Conditions met. With an assist from @TwiceIfILikeIt we have two more. Legacy. You don't choose the friendly fighter that was taken out of action. But, you choose from the adjacent friendly fighters, if there is a choice. Nervous Scrabbling. Not only do you choose the first friendly fighter, but you also choose a fighter for them to switch places with, from the available adjacent fighters. Were there only one adjacent fighter, there would be no choice for the second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHammer-darren Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 Ok whatever. Different topic please. I’m sure it’s gonna be in the official faq soonenough any other thoughts on ploys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Nah it's super clear it has to be choose cards the designer pointed it out themselves a few times. ANy who i like: Confusion, Nervous Scrambling, There are Always more, Sidestep, Illusory fighter, Time trap(amazing)l, Musk of Fear is pretty nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 2 hours ago, mmimzie said: Nah it's super clear it has to be choose cards the designer pointed it out themselves a few times So, it's only "super clear" to ppl who have followed the secret pathways where designers lurk. Got it Cuz, you know, by words and stuff, a player who buys the retail product would sooooooo totally know that he or she should ignore what words mean. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, Sleboda said: So, it's only "super clear" to ppl who have followed the secret pathways where designers lurk. Got it Cuz, you know, by words and stuff, a player who buys the retail product would sooooooo totally know that he or she should ignore what words mean. Got it. Lol fair enough that said the skaven character cards say they have to be chosen by ploys and there are card that specifically say they chose models. It's like crystal clear obviously <. < >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Well it always seemed clear enough to me, even before I saw the chap on Warhammer TV talking about it. I would never have thought Legacy or Aversion to Death trigger it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsane Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Sleboda, how'd you distinguish between a chosen model and an unchosen (imposed, I guess?) one? What if I play Confusion, but there are only 2 adjacent fighters on the board? What if I play Nervous Scrabbling on a group of 3 friendly fighters in a line (B adjacent to A and C, who are not adjacent to each other). What happens if I name (i.e. choose) A or C first? Is B (only viable second model) not chosen? What if I named B first? Would both skaven inspire? At least the official stance is clear and leaves no room for interpretation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesa_First Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Some Redditor made this list, it is really helpful. Btw, the Grand Clash winning deck uses not as much of the mentioned Ploys as I thought (no Time Trap, Illusory Fighter, Musk of Fear). Really interesting, but I never had any problems inspiring key models while testing this deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerve Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 It's a game. And playing games from years teached to me that I MUST read every single word in a rule for triggering any effect. It's clear enough for me that "getting inspiration after been chosed by a ploy" and read that some ploys have the word "choose" where other ones don't, I'll need the first ones to trigger the ispiration. Games logic is a bit different that a grammatical logic. I know that sounds weird but still. ...and Skaven are totally broken if nearly every ploy in the game should trigger their inspiration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 14 hours ago, Cerve said: Games logic is a bit different that a grammatical logic It is, which is why games often have glossaries to redefine or limit the definitions of certain words to be specific to the game. Unless word becomes defined within the game in such a way, the only approach that allows you to play, at all, is to apply the general definition of a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsane Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Soooo, once again, how do you intend to play Spiteclaw's Swarm's inspiration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerve Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 12 hours ago, Sleboda said: It is, which is why games often have glossaries to redefine or limit the definitions of certain words to be specific to the game. Unless word becomes defined within the game in such a way, the only approach that allows you to play, at all, is to apply the general definition of a word. Nope, is to consider precisely the writed word, and not all the general definitions of it. That's the way to make mistakes. In game, do precisely what you read. Word-by-word, always. Never assume. Or, in Shadespire, even pushing a model by one thanks to cards will be similar to move, because you're moving, technically, that model. Precisely as you're, technically, "chosing" a model with some cards that doesn't have the word "choose". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 8 hours ago, Cerve said: Precisely as you're, technically, "chosing" a model with some cards that doesn't have the word "choose". Exactly. The word choose need not be present for a model to be chosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerve Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Sleboda said: Exactly. The word choose need not be present for a model to be chosen. Then, the word "move" is not necessary when you Physically move any model. So you're moving with ploys like "confusion" and even when you push an enemy after melee. ....yes, of course is a nonsense. It's quite the opposite: you NEED to read the word "Choose" to inspire a Skaven. Otherwise, you're just picking him. Like move-/-pushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsane Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 @Sleboda I've seen you say this multiple times and yet you insist on ignoring my questions. Is it because you can't find an answer that fits your view? What is your definition of choose? Any time a fighter is targeted, or any time you have a choice of who to target? If you play Distraction but there are only two models adjacent to each other on the board, is that a choice? After all, i5's not like you really chose the two fighters if you couldn't target anyone else... What if someone play Nervous Scrabbling on a group of 3 friendly fighters in a line (B adjacent to A and C, who are not adjacent to each other). What happens if they name (i.e. choose) A or C first? Is B, as the only viable second model, not chosen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I have not replied to that because I don't have my reference materials, because it requires a more thoughtful answer, and because I am dealing with a family crisis and don't have time to give it the thought it deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templar101 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Interested to see why people run Time Trap with Skaven. I don't with mine but I did with my Stormcast. The problem I have with Time Trap and Skaven is that they can't take the opponent doing 2 activations in a row against them compared to Orruks and Stormcast. Sure you could use Illusionary Fighter to teleport Skritch to safety after a risky Time Trap but even then your opponent can still cause a lot of damage and it still requires you having that card in your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsane Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Well, if you go second, you can use Time Trap to get two turns in a row without providing your opponent with back-to-back activations: Your 1st My 1st Your 2nd My 2nd Your 3rd My 3rd + TimeTrap Your 4th [ My 4th / Skip ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templar101 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Hmmm that's true but then if you don't get to go second then you won't be able to take advantage of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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