Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

[Rogue Sun]

On 6/21/2018 at 7:00 PM, mmimzie said:

 Not to mention they are now 180 down from 220.

Sisters of the Thorn are still 220. Sisters of the WATCH (the flaming bow girls) are down to 180.

Now, Sisters of the Thorn still sound great for their spell on a big unit of Ishleann Guard, but you just have to spend 40 more points on them AND you will only get one unit.

[DantePQ]

On 6/22/2018 at 5:16 PM, Stormy1486 said:

Not sure what specific rules your referring to making morrsarr worse and thralls better

 

 

Ability to have fixed run and ability to re-roll  charge will mean that Morssar will be easier to lock down in combat and once they are charged they are pretty bad. Summoning is even more troublesome for Morssar as there will be more stuff that can charge/counter charge them. Witches, Blightknights, Death will be huge problem for Deepkin so now almost any army has access to MW through endless spells.

Also Tidecaster ability to reverse Tides is crazy awesome but you can't use King and battleline Eels then that's why I'm thinking about such list 

Ionarch

2xTidecaster -one of them General (Cover bubble and -1 to hit as spells) 

Spellweaver/Vortex+Chronomatic Cogs  

Soulcryer 

30 Thralls 

2x10 Reavers 

2x6 Ishlaen Guards 

3 Ishlaen Guards 

6 Morssar 

It's 154 wounds so pretty much, ability to reverse Tides so you can just advance and run and teleport with Scoul Scryer turn 1 and then control whole territory. Great to control various objectives, very mobile, hard to kill. 

3 unbids with +1 and one autounbid, strong magic phase. Also you can always swap Spellweaver for another Tidecaster if you feel autounbid isn't needed or take some endless spells Vortex +  Chronomatic Cogs which could be awesome for Tidecaster with cover bubble and would give you extra spell. 

Also It got mix of everything and I think that's a why to go with Deepkins in new edition, especially with Tidecaster who thanks to reverse Tides ability makes whole army much more flexible 

Sisters of the Thorn are now slightly worse as with 30'' unbind it will be more difficult to keep them out of unbid range. 

 

 

[mmimzie]

2 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Ability to have fixed run and ability to re-roll  charge will mean that Morssar will be easier to lock down in combat and once they are charged they are pretty bad. Summoning is even more troublesome for Morssar as there will be more stuff that can charge/counter charge them. Witches, Blightknights, Death will be huge problem for Deepkin so now almost any army has access to MW through endless spells.

Also Tidecaster ability to reverse Tides is crazy awesome but you can't use King and battleline Eels then that's why I'm thinking about such list 

Ionarch

2xTidecaster -one of them General (Cover bubble and -1 to hit as spells) 

Spellweaver/Vortex+Chronomatic Cogs  

Soulcryer 

30 Thralls 

2x10 Reavers 

2x6 Ishlaen Guards 

3 Ishlaen Guards 

6 Morssar 

It's 154 wounds so pretty much, ability to reverse Tides so you can just advance and run and teleport with Scoul Scryer turn 1 and then control whole territory. Great to control various objectives, very mobile, hard to kill. 

3 unbids with +1 and one autounbid, strong magic phase. Also you can always swap Spellweaver for another Tidecaster if you feel autounbid isn't needed or take some endless spells Vortex +  Chronomatic Cogs which could be awesome for Tidecaster with cover bubble and would give you extra spell. 

Also It got mix of everything and I think that's a why to go with Deepkins in new edition, especially with Tidecaster who thanks to reverse Tides ability makes whole army much more flexible 

Sisters of the Thorn are now slightly worse as with 30'' unbind it will be more difficult to keep them out of unbid range. 

 

 

Your list is so similar to mine, but i have all eels. That's so interesting. 

Also i run vortex over cog for because i believe it extends the range of the cover bubble.  So you keep your tide casters in back whispering secrets to each other, hopefully well out of unbind. cast vortex+ cover bubble. Then seed up the vortex riding tide caster. I also have sisters of the thorn for the combo i listed above.

Would like to hear how this list does in a tournament.

[Stormy1486]

@DantePQ

Ah i see what your saying.

Ironically looking at your list it seems we have a similar amount of eels in our list (in fact you have more!)

It seems that we both have a different focus for our deepkin (which is good!). Your list had a lot more resilience and use of endless spells.

Mine is focus'd on speed, powerful combo charges, with the aspect as an expensive but unusual support.

I find with debuffing and healing my eels usually survive till turn 4 to disengage and reengage where they need to. I have had to push more emphasis on my thralls, king, aspect engaging/cleaning up/distracting summoned units which means sometimes each unit of army have an awful lot of roles each match. 

Trying to get 700 points outta the king and aspect can be tricky.

The new nighthaunt book with immunity to rends, speed, cheap summons could throw a spanner in how my army works.

[Rogue Sun]

Thinking of running this list for an escalation league/future tournament. Would love some feedback:

Volturnous (General)

Tidecaster - Cover Bubble/-1 to hit

Aspect of the Sea - Heal d3/-1 to d6 enemes/-1 to hit (again), Sands of Infinity

6 Morsarr

6 Morsarr

9 Ishalean

This leaves me with 220 points and not entirely sure what to do with it. A few thoughts were Tempestors, Sisters of the Thorn, or add a Soulscryer, a royal court for an addition artefact and some endless spell. Trying to go for a fairly defensive build until High Tide and as such the idea is to stack a ton of -1 hit debuffs on stuff and have the Ishalean hold the line. So with that in mind Tempestors can add another easy -1 to hit in there, but Sisters of the Thorn can give me a potential re-rollable 3+ armor save Ishalean guard, which would be annoying as Hell. The Royal court though does give me another CP to burn on Volturnous and another artefact is never bad.

[Hoseman]

So with the new army endless spells who wants a pack for idoneth? Hope to see a pack for every army and of course I would love a kraken invocation, a huge wave that heals ID and MW to others, and why not crazy piranhas. Ok all of them make damage and maybe it's not possible

 

[DantePQ]

15 minutes ago, Hoseman said:

So with the new army endless spells who wants a pack for idoneth? Hope to see a pack for every army and of course I would love a kraken invocation, a huge wave that heals ID and MW to others, and why not crazy piranhas. Ok all of them make damage and maybe it's not possible

 

I doubt  already released armies will get anything. 

[newsun]

10 hours ago, Rogue Sun said:

Thinking of running this list for an escalation league/future tournament. Would love some feedback:

Volturnous (General)

Tidecaster - Cover Bubble/-1 to hit

Aspect of the Sea - Heal d3/-1 to d6 enemes/-1 to hit (again), Sands of Infinity

6 Morsarr

6 Morsarr

9 Ishalean

This leaves me with 220 points and not entirely sure what to do with it. A few thoughts were Tempestors, Sisters of the Thorn, or add a Soulscryer, a royal court for an addition artefact and some endless spell. Trying to go for a fairly defensive build until High Tide and as such the idea is to stack a ton of -1 hit debuffs on stuff and have the Ishalean hold the line. So with that in mind Tempestors can add another easy -1 to hit in there, but Sisters of the Thorn can give me a potential re-rollable 3+ armor save Ishalean guard, which would be annoying as Hell. The Royal court though does give me another CP to burn on Volturnous and another artefact is never bad.

I have this list I'm looking at with scryer and then considering gemnids and cog endless spells.

[mmimzie]

3 hours ago, newsun said:

I have this list I'm looking at with scryer and then considering gemnids and cog endless spells.

Those are certainly two of the best in my opinion. I also think the vortex is pretty good as well as it synergize well with cover bonus spell and malestrum. 

[Reeve]

For my first 1k list I was thinking about the following, thoughts? Not sure whether I should go with one unit of Ishlean Guard, or two separate units of Ishlean and Morsarr.  My idea was that 1 unit of Ishlean is better suited to getting buffed, and will serve as a good anvil to shield my Namarti. The King will accompany the eels while the Soulrender will remain close to the Namarti so he can resurrect them if needed. The Tidecaster is there for buffing the eels with the new mythic shield and to do other magic shenanigans. I am curious if you are allowed to use realm spells while running Mor'Phann since I'm not too keen on Freezing Mist. 

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Mor'Phann

Leaders
Akhelian King (240)
- General
Isharann Soulrender (100)
Isharann Tidecaster (100)

Battleline
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
6 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (280)

Units
10 x Namarti Reavers (140)

Total: 1000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 61
 

[Thalion]

repeated post

[Thalion]

1 hour ago, Reeve said:

For my first 1k list I was thinking about the following, thoughts? Not sure whether I should go with one unit of Ishlean Guard, or two separate units of Ishlean and Morsarr.  My idea was that 1 unit of Ishlean is better suited to getting buffed, and will serve as a good anvil to shield my Namarti. The King will accompany the eels while the Soulrender will remain close to the Namarti so he can resurrect them if needed. The Tidecaster is there for buffing the eels with the new mythic shield and to do other magic shenanigans. I am curious if you are allowed to use realm spells while running Mor'Phann since I'm not too keen on Freezing Mist. 

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Mor'Phann

Leaders
Akhelian King (240)
- General
Isharann Soulrender (100)
Isharann Tidecaster (100)

Battleline
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
6 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (280)

Units
10 x Namarti Reavers (140)

Total: 1000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 61
 

I was thinking on a very similar list, I just cant decide if the reavers are worth taking... I think ishlaen to soak up dmg are important on an thrall heavy list, but even with them I fear a single unit of 10 thralls is just too easy to wipe out on one go, even at 1000pts. 

Taking mor´phann doesnt make more sense to go 20 thralls and 2 screens of ishlaen? Also, i havent seen any battle report on this kind of lists, is it the "only in your own battleshock phase" respawn of thralls enough to make it competitive?

I do not need an army that can face a changehost, but i would like to see there is a way to be more or less a challenge before doing a heavy investment on soo many miniatures ( specially when you escalate it to 2000pts lists!)

[DantePQ]

Ok So I took my ID army for Second Edition against very good player Nurgle list, we have used 2.0 rules, endless spells but no extra rules for realms. 

My army : 

Ionarch : 

Tidecaster + General + Emissary of Deep Places + Coral Ring + Abyssal Cover 

Endless Spell : Balewind Vortex 

Tidecaster + Tide of Fear 

Spellweaver

Endless Spell : Malevolent Malestorm  

Soulcryer 

30 Thralls 

2x10 Reavers

2x6 Ishalan Guards

6 Morssar Guard 

5 Heartrenders 

Against heavy Blightknights army (like 25 of them + Rotigus) it worked great, with all those debuffs to hit I easily tarpited 20 Blightknights with Ishalan , also this army is amazing at keeping enemy spells in check with 3 unbids with +1, autounbid, re-roll of one failed one bid and Malestorm my opponent didn't have much room to cast anything. I love how Coral Ring makes it much more reliable along with Spellweaver autounbid you can usually stop crucial spells when needed. 

Thralls were amazing as well as they tore 20 Blightknights apart, also Heartrenders are pretty great as they keep opponents at theirs heels and benefit from Tides which is quite great.  Balewind is great as well but that kind of army as it gives your Tidecaster extra spell to cast to 6'' more on the cover bubble is neat.   

 

 

 

[Reeve]

1 hour ago, Thalion said:

I was thinking on a very similar list, I just cant decide if the reavers are worth taking... I think ishlaen to soak up dmg are important on an thrall heavy list, but even with them I fear a single unit of 10 thralls is just too easy to wipe out on one go, even at 1000pts. 

Taking mor´phann doesnt make more sense to go 20 thralls and 2 screens of ishlaen? Also, i havent seen any battle report on this kind of lists, is it the "only in your own battleshock phase" respawn of thralls enough to make it competitive?

I do not need an army that can face a changehost, but i would like to see there is a way to be more or less a challenge before doing a heavy investment on soo many miniatures ( specially when you escalate it to 2000pts lists!)

At first, I was thinking about 20 thralls, but due to base size and weapon range, that unit won't ever be fighting at optimal strength, there's also the variety in painting that I'd like to consider. I honestly don't know how good reavers are, but skirmishing ranged units that can easily solve solutions in small games might come in handy.  I know Namarti have a bit of a bad rep in this thread but I don't want to go mono-eel cuz I love the Namarti models. 

Regarding Mor'Phan, honestly I might also go for another Enclave, I'm not really locked into it. I do think that Mor'Phan can be very good in smaller games where limited resurrection can become a big threat for your opponent. And if you take a Soulrender it just gets you much more mileage out of him. 

[Amradiel]

8 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Ok So I took my ID army for Second Edition against very good player Nurgle list, we have used 2.0 rules, endless spells but no extra rules for realms. 

My army : 

Ionarch : 

Tidecaster + General + Emissary of Deep Places + Coral Ring + Abyssal Cover 

Endless Spell : Balewind Vortex 

Tidecaster + Tide of Fear 

Spellweaver

Endless Spell : Malevolent Malestorm  

Soulcryer 

30 Thralls 

2x10 Reavers

2x6 Ishalan Guards

6 Morssar Guard 

5 Heartrenders 

Against heavy Blightknights army (like 25 of them + Rotigus) it worked great, with all those debuffs to hit I easily tarpited 20 Blightknights with Ishalan , also this army is amazing at keeping enemy spells in check with 3 unbids with +1, autounbid, re-roll of one failed one bid and Malestorm my opponent didn't have much room to cast anything. I love how Coral Ring makes it much more reliable along with Spellweaver autounbid you can usually stop crucial spells when needed. 

Thralls were amazing as well as they tore 20 Blightknights apart, also Heartrenders are pretty great as they keep opponents at theirs heels and benefit from Tides which is quite great.  Balewind is great as well but that kind of army as it gives your Tidecaster extra spell to cast to 6'' more on the cover bubble is neat.   

 

 

 

Looks great. Hon did you fit all that into a 2k list? was it a fun game? 

[Reezark_SP]

I've been running 1 group of Thralls 20 strong in a list that also contains an Aspect of the Storm and Lotann. Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s and rerolling 1s on both to hit and to wound is nothing to sneeze at! I think the Thralls are at their best when dealing 2 damage per hit so I always wait to engage something big with them by first tying it up with my eels. They can definitely turn the tide (pun intended lol) when they're fighting the right targets. 

[Botinok]

Finally i've received my army...

Don't know where to start/

[Amradiel]

29 minutes ago, Botinok said:

Finally i've received my army...

Don't know where to start/

Thats dedication! Amazing

[Kugane]

5 hours ago, Botinok said:

Finally i've received my army...

Don't know where to start/

What army size are you aiming for?! XD

[Yoshiya]

Hi all, long time lurker that's putting together an idoneth list for 2.0 and would like some input. ??

 

2k list:

King (general) (reroll run and charges, cloud of midnight/potion of frenzy) - 240pts

AoSea (steed of tides) - 420pts

Tidecaster (either coral ring or shells of prophecy, undecided spell) - 100pts

Soulscryer - 80pts

3x ishalean - 140pts

3x ishalean - 140pts

3x ishalean - 140pts

9x morsarr - 420pts

Allopex - 140pts

 

Royal Council - 60pts

Chronomatic Cogs - 60pts

60 spare points for spells (bwv and swords/maelstrom/chains?)

 

The general idea of the army is to alpha strike turn 1/delay and then all charge turn 2. The soulscryer would take the morsarr and allopex off with him to deploy on the charge turn whilst the AoSea would teleport the king to get it all with charge range (all with rerolls assuming the sharks shooting hurts something).

Either the tidecaster or the AoSea would cast cogs and put it to +2" move and charge helping the ishalean move up to maybe charge too and helping everything make their charges (morsarr will be at +5" with the soulscryer buff for an effective 4" rerollable charge). Given the importance of the cogs I've decided to give the tidecaster something to help ensure the cast.

AoSea will move up and act as support whilst the tidecaster sits back blasting from a distance.

The battalion is mostly for the bonus relic and to reduce drops a bit so could be removed if you think it's useless and maybe pick up some allied dok fliers alongside the spare 60pts.

 

As for enclave I see the options as either;

- Ionrach - king loses rerolls but the spells are more likely to go off. No allies means the only benefit is magic.

- Dhom hain - general all round bonuses, lets the army spread out without relying on king for rerolls and helps to take out enemy monsters

- briomdar - allows the soulscryer to take the king with him and let's them deploy more spread out when they do arrive meaning they can attack over a larger area. AoSea can then use steed to teleport himself up for support. Other effect is mostly useless but might allow some positioning tricks with the tidecaster and soulscryer.

 

I'd like the army to be strong but not overturned. Unfortunately it seems like all eel armies might be too strong against some forces but I'm not a fan of the narmati and only picked up idoneth because I could avoid them with battleline eels. I would be willing to drop some eels and getting another allopex if that would make the list more fun to play against (maybe reducing morsarr from 9 to 6?)

 

 

 

[Botinok]

5 hours ago, Kugane said:

What army size are you aiming for?! XD

1500 - 2000 points, and more flexible with a roster management ? 

[Hypephoon]

So I finally had my first game(s) of with the Deepkin! 

So the main thought I can't get out of my head: Morrsarr Guard, why did they get a price drop?
They are phenomenal, they lay down the pain on the charge, and then wit the ability to recharge on turn 4 to get that charge bonus again, whoa boy I see what the fuss is all about! They just eat anything they charge in one turn (specifically stormcast and overlords here). And even when they get stuck in combat, they aren't exactly terrible either, way better than my gutbuster ogres at 120. I definitely see myself wanting at least 2 squads of 6 in 2000!

Other thoughts: King was exactly as deadly as I thought he would be, shredded a squad of Paladins but then got mortal wounded in the face with the last 2 (4 6s holy moly!). Definitely fragile with only 8 wounds, really tempted to give the extra 2 wounds over any other trait.
Shark was average as I thought, not terrible though! I don't think the points cost is the problem, I think he just needs an extra attack with his jaws! Still was good enough that I will take it for every singe upcoming game which is good because  its a giant flying shark!
Tidecaster has one of the best spells, holy moly! It works on any strong unit with a 6=super sayian mode ability and of course on HQs, -1 to hit can really neuter the strength of any beatstick! Does Rule of One apply to multiple wizards using the same spell? 2 tidecasters plus the Eiodolen sounds terrifying (for our opponents haha)

[Hoseman]

In the new rules says you can't try to use the same spell more than one time each phase and you can't try with different casters. Only one try to cast for spell so going with 2 tidecasters will not put 2 times -1. The other -1 is for the optional spell

[Chris Tomlin]

Morning all,

Thanks for all the great contributions made here since the Battletome dropped. It's been a really good thread, but the time has now come for this to be locked as we move into the new edition. To continue the Idoneth Deepkin discussion, please head over here....

http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/18312-aos-2-idoneth-deepkin-discussion/

Chris