Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

[syph0n]

Yep, they could. I think it's the other chap that was more keen to say light vs shadow as opposed to high vs dark. However, the overall principle applies, irrespective of light or shadow - these guys aren't equivalent to high aelves and have more in common with dark aelves. (EDIT: In my opinion!)

[GammaMage]

They're like...grey aelves. High  aelves that are kind of off.

 

I wonder if the idea behind thier mention in the DoK battletome was a partial explanation of why they are in Order. They went around raiding places that cauldn't really defend against them, but when the attacked the Kraith, and got soundly beaten they took a step back and went 'these cousins of ours are really scary, lets make sure we're on the same side as them.'

[syph0n]

@GammaMage I dunno if they're particularly 'grey' or neutral... They capture people / steal souls. That's darker than, say, Order Serpentis who are just badass tough knights on dinosaurs! 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

1 hour ago, Qaz said:

Haha. Not that much more unfortunately. I heard by ear almost  the same words from what @HarvanHarvan wrote other than the tidbit about AOS 2. It's like it's the same source. 

I think that we will find out shortly anyways. 

In about a week, give or take.

7 hours ago, Badlander86 said:

I think Bronze Scorpion, washed in Nuln Oil Gloss and picked out in Fulgrite Copper would look good for a "Classic Aquaman" scale mail armor.

 

I was a huge fan of New 52 Aquaman by Geoff Johns and am one of the few whom will defend that Aquaman is awesome.

Yeah, and Geoff Johns' run was great.  If I remember correctly he's one of the screenwriters for the upcoming movie.  Since Orm and Vulko are going to be in it we may even see a cinematic interpretation of the Throne of Atlantis arc.  Don't know how well that would work with Jason Momoa's Aquaman rather than the introspective Arthur from the comics, since his sense of isolation from both humanity and Atlantis was a driving force behind his character.  But that's wildly off-topic.

[Antipodean7]

Hey guys, I've tried to pull together what we know about Idoneth Deepkin into one post here, including all the background and material on Mathlann, Cothique and Lothern which may serve as inspiration:  https://aosshorts.com/idoneth-deepkin/

[Badlander86]

9 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

In about a week, give or take.

Yeah, and Geoff Johns' run was great.  If I remember correctly he's one of the screenwriters for the upcoming movie.  Since Orm and Vulko are going to be in it we may even see a cinematic interpretation of the Throne of Atlantis arc.  Don't know how well that would work with Jason Momoa's Aquaman rather than the introspective Arthur from the comics, since his sense of isolation from both humanity and Atlantis was a driving force behind his character.  But that's wildly off-topic.

 

While I don't want to go into full Aquaman fan-****** mode, a lot of the lore that was fleshed out with regards to Atlantis in the New 52 was really well done and unfortunately, not sure is we can get the same for the Deepkin seeing as we kind of know how they came about (Teclis and/or Tyrion's attempts at playing Gods) so not sure how much lore they have to work with to make the Deepkin feel ancient. 

And now that I think about it, why are we using Aquaman as a reference? Namor is literally an Elf with wings on his ankles. Imperius Rex.

[jaxom]

I don't know if the specifics others have mentioned are true, the current mistweaver model seems to support the broad strokes of the aesthetic they're describing.

If the infantry were bare-chested with spears/harpoons, shields, and creepy featureless full face helmets I could see that being described as spartan looking.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

As much as I'd enjoy the aesthetic that we've been rumored to see, a part of me will be disappointed when they aren't full-on fishmen.

[Acid_Nine]

2 hours ago, Badlander86 said:

 

While I don't want to go into full Aquaman fan-****** mode, a lot of the lore that was fleshed out with regards to Atlantis in the New 52 was really well done and unfortunately, not sure is we can get the same for the Deepkin seeing as we kind of know how they came about (Teclis and/or Tyrion's attempts at playing Gods) so not sure how much lore they have to work with to make the Deepkin feel ancient. 

And now that I think about it, why are we using Aquaman as a reference? Namor is literally an Elf with wings on his ankles. Imperius Rex.

Mostly because I'm much more in favor of the more heroic and kingly aquaman stuff, plus there is also the fish commanding aspect. As much flak as superfriends Arthur gets, this still puts him in line with the mythical beasts we could see from the faction more than namor as far as I know. But come to think of it they will probably have namor's attitude.

[Barkanaut]

1 hour ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

As much as I'd enjoy the aesthetic that we've been rumored to see, a part of me will be disappointed when they aren't full-on fishmen.

I'm hoping for a mix, but if all they are is plain old elves with very minor special TM "mutations" then I'll be very disappointed. One thing that always bothers me is in movies and art when a character is depicted as disfigured and ugly and oh its like a minor scar over someones eye.  Yeah boo hoo real sad for you "scarred" veteran of battle.  Same thing with these ID all hyped up to be cool evil underwater fsh elf monster things and then we get like... an effeminate looking Japanese elves with maybe a tentacle here or there that doesnt make them look ugly. I would be hoping for something slightly more monstrous than that. Then again if they ever do the Fishmen battletomb for destruction like they teased I'll not care about the ID. Still I suspect they will be slightly more deformed than the mystweaver. In the rumor she was  called out as being more Eldar and thus implied to be more  "normal" looking than the others.  

[DantePQ]

Ok so according to this rumor :

1st Of April release for the bulk of stuff and preorders on the 14th, week after Drukhari. 
2 Named Characters
3 Generic Characters/ Unit Kits
2 Dual Kits 
The Shipwreck model shown in the fish bowl promo video is called an Ethryic Vortex

we will get :

5 character entries (+ possible Mistweaver) + 7 unit entries + Ethryic Vortex - maybe more if there are kits that can be assembled in more then two ways.  That's quite  like Sylvaneth style of of release. 

[mhsellwood]

I certainly think we need to be careful with building up images in our heads of what the Deepkin 'should be'. We have some tantalising glimpses which suggest very monstrous (in this I class the image from GAMA - of a tentacled thing, a Rumour Engine of an octopus type thing, the Facebook tease with the Azyr Zoological Society which suggests beastman / troggoth levels of monstrous, the rumour of shark riders) through to basically human with some watery references (the Mistweavers).

I tend towards the view that they will be more monstrous than watery bint (apologies to Monty Python here). The rumours consistently indicate a turtle type thing as a centrepiece model, and I have read one that indicates the basic unit is similar in design to the Tree-Revenants from the Sylvaneth. Although the Mistweaver has been rumoured to be part of the faction, we have seen no evidence of this. At this point therefore what little evidence we have points towards monstrous.

[Orsino]

On 16/03/2018 at 3:25 AM, jaxom said:

I don't know if the specifics others have mentioned are true, the current mistweaver model seems to support the broad strokes of the aesthetic they're describing.

If the infantry were bare-chested with spears/harpoons, shields, and creepy featureless full face helmets I could see that being described as spartan looking.

This seems somewhat tenuous to me. The hair looks more like generic GW dynamic hair  than it does floating underwater-hair. Look at Sisters of the Thorn as a comparison: 

The moon has many associations other than tides and the gold tassels just look like gold tassels to me.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but nothing about the Mistweaver screams aquatic.

[DanielFM]

9 hours ago, mhsellwood said:

I certainly think we need to be careful with building up images in our heads of what the Deepkin 'should be'. We have some tantalising glimpses which suggest very monstrous (in this I class the image from GAMA - of a tentacled thing, a Rumour Engine of an octopus type thing, the Facebook tease with the Azyr Zoological Society which suggests beastman / troggoth levels of monstrous, the rumour of shark riders) through to basically human with some watery references (the Mistweavers).

I tend towards the view that they will be more monstrous than watery bint (apologies to Monty Python here). The rumours consistently indicate a turtle type thing as a centrepiece model, and I have read one that indicates the basic unit is similar in design to the Tree-Revenants from the Sylvaneth. Although the Mistweaver has been rumoured to be part of the faction, we have seen no evidence of this. At this point therefore what little evidence we have points towards monstrous.

The most detailed rumours we have had about them (they appeared in the War of Sigmar comments) described them as badass atlanteans/Spartan feel. That doesn't scream monstrous, nor does it sound compatible with it. It would have been mentioned IMHO.

[DantePQ]

Not really guy who first leaked the info was specific that army is heavy on heroes riding crazy monsters who are expensive point wise and have crazy abilities they might be Spartan/Atlantean in design anyway but I think with 5 kits out of 7 being possibly heroes and that info we got its more possible that it is monster-hero heavy army. 

[Incineroar87]

Hopefully they get access to some really good magic and shooting.  Since teclis created them, maybe they get access to some sort of water / rain unique spell lore like the old warhammer races used to.

[Aelfric]

12 hours ago, Orsino said:

This seems somewhat tenuous to me. The hair looks more like generic GW dynamic hair  than it does floating underwater-hair. Look at Sisters of the Thorn as a comparison: 

The moon has many associations other than tides and the gold tassels just look like gold tassels to me.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but nothing about the Mistweaver screams aquatic.

The part of the Mistweaver that to me suggests aquatic is the mouth, which definitely has a fishy guppyness to it, both in its look and placement.  

[DantePQ]

I don't know but I'd love big monster kind of army supported by few units, AoS lacks that kidn of armies as only one was BCR and some Sylvaneth armies could be build into Monster Truck kind of army. 

On the other hand there is a reason why such armies suffer - more horde approach and armies that have easy games against them like Changehost, DoT, Clown-Car.

I got this idea long before Deepkin - why not introduce immune to magic hero on monster ? It's double edged sword as you woudln't be able to buff him through magic and there are few armies that rely on magic so much also against some armies will be useless or close to useless (and bad as it wouldn't be possible to buff him). I love this idea so much as even DoT can then change army a bit to put Skyfires back in but it would open up meta a little bit. 

Anyway I just hope Deepkin will be written like LoN, DoK or Maggotkin - well balanced Battletomes as they have a lot of cool choices and not one much more powerful build then others and then not OP and not fun to play against like Clown-Car or Changehost. I love how DoK BT is written when even less powerful units like Blood Stalkers or Lifetakers could have uses and and up in some lists - almost every choice could be used, also a lot of cool spells, artifacts etc. That's a great approach the reason I don't like Sylvaneth BT is that it has narrow selection of choices and some of them (Spite-Reventants, Treelord, Branchwraight etc) are really bad as well as really bad Spell lore and limited number of cool artifacts. Also I loved DoK approach to Battalions were they are cool way to get some fine rules (but nothing OP) and extra artifact without 1-drops. 

Also I'd love Mistweaver to be a part simply because I love her model and would love to field her as for now she can't be used in matched play unless you're playing mixed order. I would her to be a part of Deepkin (as I don't see her as Angelic Tyrion's and Teclis Aelves and Tenabreal looks like Malerion's guy and they are not both Malerion's Aelves) but will be fine with any outcome.

[Incineroar87]

Didn’t the recent leaks say we are only getting like 5 kits or something, with 3 characters, makes it seem like it wil lack variety and will be like ironjaws .

[DantePQ]

5 minutes ago, Incineroar87 said:

Didn’t the recent leaks say we are only getting like 5 kits or something, with 3 characters, makes it seem like it wil lack variety and will be like ironjaws .

Nope its 7 kits with 2 named characters and 3 kits that are characters/units kits and 2 dual units kits. That a lot of possible unit entries like mininum 12 (+ possible Mistweaver) + terrain piece. And it's counting that there won't be kits that can be assembled in more then 2 ways. That's standrd DoK/Sylvaneth release. 

[Orsino]

1 hour ago, Aelfric said:

The part of the Mistweaver that to me suggests aquatic is the mouth, which definitely has a fishy guppyness to it, both in its look and placement.  

You may be right, I don't own the model and it's hard to tell what's going on with the mouth from the picture.

It would be weird if the Idoneth all look like normal aelves except for having little guppy mouths. 

[Aelfric]

17 minutes ago, Orsino said:

You may be right, I don't own the model and it's hard to tell what's going on with the mouth from the picture.

It would be weird if the Idoneth all look like normal aelves except for having little guppy mouths. 

It's true I haven't seen the model close up either, but the mouth at the end of an elongated head does suggest a fishy structure. It's only the ears that are Aelven and the shape of the helmet does not fit the shape of a normal Aelf skull ( I've painted enough of them! ).  Fish with ears would be weird enough for me, but I'm also up for more weird than that for this faction! 

[Amradiel]

4 hours ago, Aelfric said:

The part of the Mistweaver that to me suggests aquatic is the mouth, which definitely has a fishy guppyness to it, both in its look and placement.  

Does it have a mouth? The mask cover the entire face, no? 

[Aelfric]

44 minutes ago, Amradiel said:

Does it have a mouth? The mask cover the entire face, no? 

In the picture posted above, the mask stops just before the bottom of the face exposing a small O of a mouth - at least that's how I see it.

[Vasshpit]

1 hour ago, Aelfric said:

In the picture posted above, the mask stops just before the bottom of the face exposing a small O of a mouth - at least that's how I see it.

Mask covers whole face.