Keith Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 44 minutes ago, Reezark_SP said: I played with Lotann and 1x20 Thralls last night and in that game the rerolling 1's was a huge help. The Thralls with Lotann nearby 1 shotted a group of 5 putrid blightkings, Gutrot Spume, and reduced a unit of 40 skeletons to somewhere to the mid teens before being wiped out by Nagash. Yeah I will concede that rerolling being useful , but the unit has to be wholly within 12" to gain the benefit , not always easy to maintain with 20 or 30 thralls. I think we Deepkin have to attack hard and fast with all the summoning and nasty spells that are gonna be flung around now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy1486 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 9 hours ago, mmimzie said: maybe, but most seem to know to check the FAQ. Either way 1 banner per 10. Also thralls are pretty meh they can't and wont beable to keep up with summoning armies and those same summoning armies can also potentialy out damage a thrall list. Maaaaybe in morphan you miiiight keep up, but i don't know the healing isn't as effective as just bring whole units to the table. Yeah i'm big on the eels right now. Currently, running 2 units of 9 morrsarr, and 1 unit of 3 ishlaen. Throw in a aspect of the sea and some tide casters and i just spam out -1 to hit to dramatic degrees . Testing one game with endless spells i'm pretty sold of the balewind vortex and Gimnids. The gimnids compounding -1 to hit to silly hights and the balewind being a great tool for a tidecaster armed with vortex. I like my thralls because (opposed to even more eels!) : - surprising opponents - hordes and monsters not antcipiating their special rules giving specific bonus's - bubble wrapping - less reliant on charge - not have people/tournament organisers go - 24 eels? Really? Some people can handle having the absolutely cookie cutter insane list of doom, but i would like to avoid that a bit - asethetics - i like the army having different models But after some compeditive games...eels point for point are simply amazing - both units provide insane utility, super fast, high damage, resilient, benefit from army buffs. Point for point vs thralls yes more eels probably are technically better... Im happy with my 20 thralls hough - they dont specifically benefit better from the buffs in my list more than eels and honestly x 3 more ishlaen x 3 more morrs would probably provide even more flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I like thralls and I will always go with at least 10. I have 12 eels and maybe later will take 3 more but thralls and reavers are so cool I wanna them there. The thing I can't decide is enclave. I think I will go Fuethan that can make u charge on first turn if u go second and invert tides, or of go first u can move a bit to ensure charge on turn 2 and use high tide on 3. But I'm not sure if having in turn 4 the same as 2 will be nice if u are engaged in combat. The others are Dhom hain or Briomdar. Dhom goes nice for monsters but Briomdar maybe gives a nice mobility... but i see fuethan better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Stormy1486 said: I like my thralls because (opposed to even more eels!) : - surprising opponents - hordes and monsters not antcipiating their special rules giving specific bonus's - bubble wrapping - less reliant on charge - not have people/tournament organisers go - 24 eels? Really? Some people can handle having the absolutely cookie cutter insane list of doom, but i would like to avoid that a bit - asethetics - i like the army having different models But after some compeditive games...eels point for point are simply amazing - both units provide insane utility, super fast, high damage, resilient, benefit from army buffs. Point for point vs thralls yes more eels probably are technically better... Im happy with my 20 thralls hough - they dont specifically benefit better from the buffs in my list more than eels and honestly x 3 more ishlaen x 3 more morrs would probably provide even more flexibility. I keep thinking that if I include 20 thralls I may as well bump it to 30 for the discount. It doesn’t seem to put me behind in list making too often. How do the 20 work out for you? Does the unit stay alive for a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 15 hours ago, Keith said: Yeah , I totally agree , he is useless , I have seen anyone have him in a list. I have see him a couple of time with great effect but he was accompanied with a tidecaster that teleported him where he was needed (to a bunch of tralls in ambush) Do I understand the rule well when I say a single idoneth player can bring two full boats on the board and separate them to place a total of four half-boat on the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, kozokus said: Do I understand the rule well when I say a single idoneth player can bring two full boats on the board and separate them to place a total of four half-boat on the table? You can have two half boats, two full boats or a half boat and a full boat. You cant have 4 half boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy1486 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 it really depends on who armies you are playing against. i want my idoneth to survive against the best armies out there. This means: - monster mash, summing sylvaneth - buff brigade DoK - spam summon lists (still trying to determine how all these will look) - mega lord lists (Nagash or archon) units of 20 Thralls often doesn’t survive but making it 30 doesn’t fit for my list. And if a gaunt summoner even looks there way they will be toast. They often live because they are left to settle on objectives and be fierce enough to be left alone. 30 Thralls says “try and kill all these before my scary unit wrecks you” my list is designed around the eels, aspect and vol doing that. The Thralls mostly pick off summon units, clean up and move toward objectives whilst the rest of the list does the heavy lifting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezark_SP Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, Stormy1486 said: it really depends on who armies you are playing against. i want my idoneth to survive against the best armies out there. This means: - monster mash, summing sylvaneth - buff brigade DoK - spam summon lists (still trying to determine how all these will look) - mega lord lists (Nagash or archon) units of 20 Thralls often doesn’t survive but making it 30 doesn’t fit for my list. And if a gaunt summoner even looks there way they will be toast. They often live because they are left to settle on objectives and be fierce enough to be left alone. 30 Thralls says “try and kill all these before my scary unit wrecks you” my list is designed around the eels, aspect and vol doing that. The Thralls mostly pick off summon units, clean up and move toward objectives whilst the rest of the list does the heavy lifting My thoughts exactly. I've gone with 20 Thralls and they were fine if I have under 100 points leftover in my list I can usually take advantage of the discount and bump them to 30 but 20 seems to be the default sweet spot for me. Its funny because in the fluff the Thralls are the front line workhorses of the army while the Akhelians are the backup, but in every game I've played so far its the Akehlian Eels who do all the work and the Thralls mop up/support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Drofnum said: You can have two half boats, two full boats or a half boat and a full boat. You cant have 4 half boats. Thanks. I read it the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amradiel Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 How does the enclave rules affect allies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Amradiel said: How does the enclave rules affect allies? Currently they don't unless they specificly say they do. However 2.0 could be different though i doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amradiel Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 28 minutes ago, mmimzie said: Currently they don't unless they specificly say they do. However 2.0 could be different though i doubt it. I would love to try some allied Blood sisters in my army. Maybe Ionrach so they can use the tides of death abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezark_SP Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Amradiel said: I would love to try some allied Blood sisters in my army. Maybe Ionrach so they can use the tides of death abilities I've tried them in several games as allies of an Ionrach army and they got wrecked every single time. They do not make great allies IMO. They need their allegiance abilities on top of their warscroll to shine. Without all their DoK rerolls and their fanatic save they're not very good. I'm thinking Stormcast (especially the Stormcast in the upcoming starter set) will fill the role of elite heavy infantry very nicely (which Deepkin lack). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Yeah, @Amradiel, i agree with @Reezark_SP here they aren't the best ionrach allies. The best Ionrach allies are ones that can really use the tides in some way.Eternal guard work well at turn 1 allies. While not inherently amazing a turn 1 cover bonus goes a long way for eternal guard. They'd work best in a wizard and maybe endless spell heavy list where you have a big fat unit or even two of eternal guard defending your line of wizards who are throwing down damage from accross the table. Sisters of the thorn interest me a few changes making them alot bettering and worse to me. Better in that rerolling all saves is pretty nice and thier buff on charging deepkin is very power. More so with a ID wizard casting the cover bonus (or turn 1 cover bonus) letting them do mortals back a 5+. With the rules change your opponent can't chose not to attack. So if you get your deepkin in super close and force your opponent to deal with your mortal wounds on the charge. The goal is royal court allowing a turn 1 charge buffing the Ishlaen with shield of thorns, and using the turn one cover to force your opponent to blow themselves up where possible. Not to mention they are now 180 down from 220. On top of that the cover save bonus helps keep the sisters around, and run and shoot lets them be abit more aggressive. So the tide bonus is as amazing, for them out side of run and shoot being an option for them, but it's more that they work well with the ishlaen. So the Tides are a nice bonus on a unit that works well with ID. (note if using this if you charge turn 1 you wont do mortal of 5 until the next turn as long as you still have cover). The problem with blood sisters is that run+charge turn 2 doesn't make getting them into combat any easier. With an 8" move and a run on turn 1 likely they'll make it into combat already. From there The cover bonus doesn't multiply off anything to make it a particular good surivial boost over daughters nature 6+ extra save. + to save is better than the 6+ extra save, but it's not so dramatically better and isn't so much better that it over comes the other bonuses from being in daughters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsun Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 So if I'm running ionrach with volturnos general, I don't get the command trait because he's a character, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwill_of_the_Woods Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 59 minutes ago, newsun said: So if I'm running ionrach with volturnos general, I don't get the command trait because he's a character, correct? Yeah that's right. So with the new way that comand points work, you can still use his command abilities if you used a different general. However, you wouldn't be able to take eels as battleline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Gwill_of_the_Woods said: Yeah that's right. So with the new way that comand points work, you can still use his command abilities if you used a different general. However, you wouldn't be able to take eels as battleline. You actualy can't use his command trait. his command trait was written with 2nd edition in mind. As such it specifies it may only be used if he is your general. Same with the kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reeve Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Has anyone tried magnetizing Akhelian Guard? Mostly the arms of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 For me 30 Thralls work really well as they are reliable in their damage unlike for example Morssar. If there are still Battleplans for matched play when 20+ units or more models have priority to capture objectives along with new pile Thralls could be essential as new rules make it more difficult to keep Morssar out of trouble for several reasons (especially against armies with easy access to Battalions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 3 hours ago, DantePQ said: For me 30 Thralls work really well as they are reliable in their damage unlike for example Morssar. If there are still Battleplans for matched play when 20+ units or more models have priority to capture objectives along with new pile Thralls could be essential as new rules make it more difficult to keep Morssar out of trouble for several reasons (especially against armies with easy access to Battalions) Heard a YouTube video of some one reviewing beast claw raiders for 2.0 and if I remember correctly, the biggest buff they said they got is that there are no 20+ battle plans. There are still hero/wizard battle plans. For which heroes count as units of 20 in most of those cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Maybe but still Morssar with new rules got to worse as opponents will have more tools to exploit their obvious weaknesses on the other hand Thralls got better with new rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy1486 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Not sure what specific rules your referring to making morrsarr worse and thralls better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugane Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I still think it'll be incredibly difficult to get 30 thralls in combat all at once, unless you run a congo line of them. Morsarr guard are easy to get into combat and are a lot faster. I think both units have their pros and cons depending on your playstyle. Up until now it seems Morsarr have proven themselves to be more efficient if used/buffed properly. 2.0 may change that, but I doubt by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Yeah I dont see what could make the calls any better with the new rules More attacks on turn 3 dont seem as big on thralls as they still suffer from surface area. With other armies getting summoning now other armies can out horde thralls over time potentially. Having only messed with a few tries at 2.0 games and not knowing all the rules for sure. I can't make a true judgement call. We do know that morrsarr got a decent discount and that the king as general can spam their command ability. Barring any generals hand book restrictions to the contrary, which I dont think any of us have heard of yet; despite a few folks hoping that would be the case. Which all points to morrsarr guard being better than they are now. As of pre 2.0 it was kind of a toss up in my mind between thralls and morrsarr being the sort of go. So it leans me just to want to make camp with steam morrsarr going into 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwill_of_the_Woods Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 On 6/22/2018 at 8:11 AM, mmimzie said: You actualy can't use his command trait. his command trait was written with 2nd edition in mind. As such it specifies it may only be used if he is your general. Same with the kings. Well spotted! I genuinely didn't notice that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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