Dread Solstice Dilemma - Which Outcome & Why?

[chord]

I agree with others, I think the overall outcome was already decided, and Nagash could never be stopped.    Understandable, but disappointing as well.

[Rogue Explorator]

25 minutes ago, chord said:

I agree with others, I think the overall outcome was already decided, and Nagash could never be stopped.    Understandable, but disappointing as well.

I think this viewpoint depends heavily on the expectation that Dread Solstice was supposed to decide wether the great work succeeds or not. Which, while understandable, has actually very little support in the buildup of Dread Solstice and I think is somewhat unreasonable considering how much that would require GW to change in its release schedule on the fly in the next 1-2 years.

 

Now, from what we know so far, Dread Solstice had an outcome:

-All the non-Death GAs (including Order) have turned uppon their own people, especially their seers and prophets. In doing so, they have slaughtered some of their greatest and most enlightened minds and likely generated internal strife that will not quiet down anytime soon.

-In Agshy, an extremely dangerous time-manipulating doomsday weapon has been build and empowered.

-legendary heroes and villains from throughout history and even from before history, likely meaning from the world-that-was, have been unleashed from Nagashes best guarded underworld.

 

Now all three of these qualify to me as an outcome by themself and have massive repercussions on the realms, in my opinion each at least rivaling the effect that Fate of Konor and Seasons of War had on their respective settings. One of these is even likely to have bearing on future miniature releases, as it makes AoSified rereleases of classic heroes much more likely.

I would hardly call that a predetermined outcome.

[Wraith01]

It was fun! 

Specially getting new stories every couple of days. Apparently we will be getting more short stories too!

I would love it if they release a Dread Solistice Campaign book. Collect all the short stories and the campaign in order with added special Battleplans and Times of War rules. Like the books for the Realmgate Wars. I really hope they plan on releasing such a book. 

[Rogue Explorator]

28 minutes ago, xking said:

I want stormcast valten.

Well, while we are at it, there propably will never be a better time and place for the return of Settra The Imperishable!

I mean, if ever was to return, where else could he have been cooped up? And what could be a better continuation for his story than clawing his way back out of Nagashes underworld prison?

 

Though I do not think he would still be mummified or have a mortal flesh and blood body, let alone the promised Golden One. Well, becoming a Stormcast would actually sort of make that true, but Settra does not serve!

 

Personally I could see him as a leader of a rogue Nighthaunt force, trying to recreate a vision of Nehekaharra or maybe bound to a slave-crafted body of gold after all, but now I am really getting carried away.

[Imperial]

So they posted page about company end https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/29/dread-solstice-the-final-reckoning/

So many info about company... so many background ... and what we got? Nothing important for matched play and only 1 hero per GA? After last year The Gathering Storm for 40k i very sad about it. Nice company about Death GA w/o nothing new for Death! We even don't get info about next releases for death after company ends!

This game need get update for matched play as soon as possible and GW make this "nice" move with this company...  I hope club in my town will survive next 3 months before GHB 3 and we don't switch to 40k or malifaux, abandoning aos....

[Melcavuk]

Really happy with the story and outcome of the campaign, it gives so much potential for players to reinvent their favourite characters from the old world and for new factions to spawn out of thsoe freed in the final jailbreak.

 

Personally I'll be running with the chained God Ulric having leapt forth from his cage in the jailbreak to lead my more feral Stormcast, having never played fantasy alot of people kept referencing him in regards to my conversions and now this gives me a fantastic opportunity to learn about and reinvent an old world character

[Captain Marius]

I think the narrative has been a bit meh overall, however i dont think thats a bad thing. Ive played some really fun games over the last 6 weeks, and for me thats the most important thing for any GW campaign!

[Clan's Cynic]

4 hours ago, Melcavuk said:

Personally I'll be running with the chained God Ulric having leapt forth from his cage in the jailbreak to lead my more feral Stormcast, having never played fantasy alot of people kept referencing him in regards to my conversions and now this gives me a fantastic opportunity to learn about and reinvent an old world character

Wasn't Ulric outright destroyed saving Sigmar during the End Times?

[Melcavuk]

A fair few "destroyed" or "dead" characters found ways of surviving, his destruction or ultimate death makes a decent reason for being imprisoned in the underworld (or spending centuries coalescing his power once more having been shattered). With the world itself literally exploding and morathi still managing to clamber back from the gullet of slaanesh there are many methods for gods or survivors fighting their way back.

[shinros]

Anyway campaign is over but I am glad someone on facebook bought up that a few weeks was pretty much one GA vs all the rest. Made choices far too clear, week 2 was the best IMO. 

[Captain Marius]

44 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Wasn't Ulric outright destroyed saving Sigmar during the End Times?

How does this get turned into myth, the books were only 3 years ago! Teclis stole Ulrics essence to ressurect Tyrion as the Incarnate of Hysh. His last vestiges inhabited the Grand Theogonist for about five minutes before Archaon killed him!

[JReynolds]

26 minutes ago, Captain Marius said:

How does this get turned into myth, the books were only 3 years ago! Teclis stole Ulrics essence to ressurect Tyrion as the Incarnate of Hysh. His last vestiges inhabited the Grand Theogonist for about five minutes before Archaon killed him!

Actually, Ulric's last vestiges inhabited the body of the then-supreme patriarch of the colleges of magic (by default), Gregor Martak. Before Martak perished at Middenheim, he passed the spirit of Ulric to Wendel Volker, who survived to eventually fight alongside the Incarnates against Archaon in the final battle. Volker perished saving Sigmar, and the final vestiges of Ulric supposedly perished with him.

But, really, what is death to a god? 

[Lousy Beatnik]

The campaign itself didn't mean much to me, but short stories every few days since the start of the year has been brilliant. Even having them in WD has been great, I hope they keep it up.

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

it really undermines the concept of death, and nagash, if characters that were long dead and blown up can come back... at this point.

I understand at the start of AoS needing to keep a few. But at this point it seems lazy. I really hope they can move on from what was (which was the point of AoS) and introduce new characters.

 

on a side note its entirely possible that Alcadizaar could be re born

[hellalugosi]

anybody else think that this isnt a way tor them to bring back old fantasy characters and instead is a way of unleashing some rogue death characters that nagash had kept locked away for rebelling, into the setting? from here there are only so many groups of death aligned factions to go with, as nighthaunt is on the horizon. so what after that? could we see katophranes return to mortal form as their souls are let wild to seek their homeland once more?

[Chikout]

1 hour ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

it really undermines the concept of death, and nagash, if characters that were long dead and blown up can come back... at this point.

I understand at the start of AoS needing to keep a few. But at this point it seems lazy. I really hope they can move on from what was (which was the point of AoS) and introduce new characters.

 

on a side note its entirely possible that Alcadizaar could be re born

I don't know. Bringing back Vlad as a Stormcast as 'reward' for his efforts in the end times only for him to forget more and more about Isabella each time he is reforged would be pretty awesome.

The black library books are already doing a good job of bringing in new characters. I particularly like the way Josh Reynolds is building an ever expanding cast of recurring characters across his novels. I would love to see some of these get some rules in future battletomes or supplements but I think there is room for GW to have a bit of fun with some old characters.

As for the point of AoS,  I always thought the world of Warhammer was too limiting. Every story seemed to have an invasion by Chaos or the vampire counts or Skaven leading to the seige of a major city which was miraculously rescued at the last minute. There were  also several factions that had very little in fiction reason for fighting each other.

The writers even added the world root in 8th edition to give the Wood Elves an excuse for fighting around the world.

Aos with its realmgates neatly solves that problem. It provides unexplored spaces from which new factions can appear, (Idoneth Deepkin!!!) and with all factions essentially on the offensive it provides limitless possiblities for storytelling. I think that  was the best reason they had for destroying the old world. The characters were never a problem so why not bring some of them back?

[Clan's Cynic]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

I think that  was the best reason they had for destroying the old world. The characters were never a problem so why not bring some of them back?

Pretty sure the reason they destroyed the Old World was for an excuse to add Not!SpaceMarines when they'd never thematically fit it. 

Honestly, with certain exceptions, despite my love of the Old World I'm not a fan of dragging too many characters back kicking and screaming. If every Tom, ****** & Harry can return then it really stops feeling like it was the End Times, that the world was truly destroyed, and more "if you were important enough you were fine in the long run, it just sucks for those nameless billions who never got a name tag."

I would much rather they try and make Age of Sigmar it's own thing, focusing on a cast of (largely) new but important characters to further stop living in WHFB's shadow. In my opinion it's better than finding ways to shoehorn them in like geriatrics, gods being the exception I suppose.

[AthlorianStoners]

Could be a way to bring tomb kings back as a group of dead/undead who nagash had locked away. Use some parts of the range, the more modern ones. 

[FERRUMITE]

I like the prospect of old characters returning! I just hope we don’t see them return as Stormcast personally, as it would be...extremely pointless to do so

[Skabnoze]

2 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Pretty sure the reason they destroyed the Old World was for an excuse to add Not!SpaceMarines when they'd never thematically fit it. 

Honestly, with certain exceptions, despite my love of the Old World I'm not a fan of dragging too many characters back kicking and screaming. If every Tom, ****** & Harry can return then it really stops feeling like it was the End Times, that the world was truly destroyed, and more "if you were important enough you were fine in the long run, it just sucks for those nameless billions who never got a name tag."

I would much rather they try and make Age of Sigmar it's own thing, focusing on a cast of (largely) new but important characters to further stop living in WHFB's shadow. In my opinion it's better than finding ways to shoehorn them in like geriatrics, gods being the exception I suppose.

I agree with you, however the hypocrite within me really wants to see Skarsnik return and start claiming Duardin beards again.

[Zambo]

The return of Grimgor to lead the next destruction themed campaign “headbut” would make me a very happy chap.

He could be the ironjawz saviour n Jesus can you imagine how angry that gezza would be after being in Nagash’s prison, wouldn’t want to be his cell mate!! 

 

[Carnelian]

That campaign was awesome fun for me

[Captain Marius]

On 29/03/2018 at 11:57 PM, JReynolds said:

Actually, Ulric's last vestiges inhabited the body of the then-supreme patriarch of the colleges of magic (by default), Gregor Martak. Before Martak perished at Middenheim, he passed the spirit of Ulric to Wendel Volker, who survived to eventually fight alongside the Incarnates against Archaon in the final battle. Volker perished saving Sigmar, and the final vestiges of Ulric supposedly perished with him.

But, really, what is death to a god? 

Happy to be corrected! I got my Grand Theogonists and my Supreme Patriarchs mixed up! I thoroughly enjoyed the End Times novels ?

[Envyus]

On 3/29/2018 at 2:25 PM, Clan's Cynic said:

Wasn't Ulric outright destroyed saving Sigmar during the End Times?

No that was Teclis's fault he snuffed out his flame to revive Tyrion, thus dooming him and Middenhiem.

But the last vestiges of him were snuffed out helping Sigmar. But he was already dead by that point.

[Turgol]

On 29/3/2018 at 6:57 PM, JReynolds said:

Actually, Ulric's last vestiges inhabited the body of the then-supreme patriarch of the colleges of magic (by default), Gregor Martak. Before Martak perished at Middenheim, he passed the spirit of Ulric to Wendel Volker, who survived to eventually fight alongside the Incarnates against Archaon in the final battle. Volker perished saving Sigmar, and the final vestiges of Ulric supposedly perished with him.

But, really, what is death to a god? 

Well, that part of the fluff was not in the "cannon book", namely ET: Archaon, only in Lord of the End Times.  I guess they could make use of it if they wanted to bring Ulric back (which would be cool). But then, it wouldn't make much of a difference if Ulric died after Martak's (cannon) or Volker's (BL) death. We have seen this trend with the elven gods: they supposedly died when each of their avatars got killed (Mathlann = Aislinn; Khaine = Tyrion; Kurnous = Orion) or were just spend when their avatars nearly died (Alarielle = Isha; Malekith = Asuryan). They are now brought back as maybe non-dead gods with DoK and Idoneth and small retcons to how they died. So if Ulric came back, I am sure it would be something like that: did he die?