Kugane Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 @mmimzie and @Reggi Thank you for the feedback! I really need to read these cards better, I keep missing tiny details such as festering only working on range 1 and 2 cards. I really love your Total Offense combo set up, I personally haven't been able to get Aversion to death to work, but I've mostly played against SE, so never really had the chance to do it. I may end up switching Festering blade out for black hunger after seeing that combo of yours :). I really like Sneaky stab since you can jump out of range easily. I put in skitter scurry for now since I use my leader to raise clanrats + push him. Concerning brilliant-brilliant, I assumed it works the same as flawless strategy, so pretty much took it for the fluff behind it, but in that case I'll swap it out. So far working on objectives 3,4 and 5 has worked quite well for me, its relatively easy to get on them even if they are on the opponent's territory, a nicely planned sudden skittering or confusion works wonders. I may drop 1 & 2 in favour of other stuff. The reason I went with objectives is mostly due to having a hard time against SE and Orcs in general, but I can probably fit something else in there. So many choices! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 So doing quite well with Skaven. Skritch is an absolute beast, you basically always get to choose a target for him to kill T1, and he quickly goes from "faily squishy" to "basically unkillable" with a few upgrades. Krrk is also a really solid piece since 3 wounds on double shields actually isn't that squishy at all, depending on what you're facing. Really enjoying the speed, you get to dictate most fights just by having the reach and defensiveness. Skaven Mirror is going to be... insane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Requizen said: So doing quite well with Skaven. Skritch is an absolute beast, you basically always get to choose a target for him to kill T1, and he quickly goes from "faily squishy" to "basically unkillable" with a few upgrades. Krrk is also a really solid piece since 3 wounds on double shields actually isn't that squishy at all, depending on what you're facing. Really enjoying the speed, you get to dictate most fights just by having the reach and defensiveness. Skaven Mirror is going to be... insane. Yeah skaven mirror is abit explosive haha. It's a thing on who gets whose's skritch on the other first, or who can set up an explosive combo on the enemies skritch first. On the other rats. I think all the rats with upgrades have a lot of power house potential. Also getting lots of supports is really easy for skaven. With extra movement ploy options (nervous scrambling/scratching in the shadows) and there are always more. It's very realistic that you can get lots of half supports and full supports on the majority of your attacks. That i think is the most important thing, as often when attacking it feels like you jsut want a crit or a crit+ so you can more realisticly do damage, but with all the supports you get more reliability in your attacks. @Kugane Did you do anymore on your objective based deck. So far with my aggro skaven i only lost the first game i played with my aggro skaven. Since then i haven't lost any games. Which is bad because it makes it harder to know if there is something wrong in the deck but i'm luckly not running into it, or if the deck is just where it needs to be x.x. Edited March 2, 2018 by mmimzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garxia Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I'm going to play the rats for first time this weekend, but can't decide on deck.. Undecided if going objectives, mixed or aggro. Would love to see-see your rats lists! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) What do you guys think about hone survival instincts and alone in the dark??? have any of you had any luck with these cards??/ Those are other freebie cards i'm thinking about. I really like the 2 glory on alone in the dark low or no work. Seems easy enough to get alone in the dark off by playing the first turn rather passively. Mosto f the freebie cards are for stormcast, who you don't wanna risk giving away inspires on with too many multiple attacks. @Garxia Welcome fellow clan rat here is my aggro list. Ploys: Ready for action Skaven courage nervous scrabbling time trap side step musk of fear there are always more aversion to death confusion scratching in the shadows. Upgrades: Etheral Shield Hero slayer acrobatics awaken weapon great strength total offence shade glass hammer Black Hunger Daemonic weapon sneaky stab-stab Objectives plant a standard honest oppoent live are cheap Escalation Ploymaster Immedaiate: Skritch is the greatest, yes-yes Victorious Duel The bigger they are Arms Length Precise use of force Third end phase: Denial Annhilation. For how to play it. I have a write up on page 4 i believe. Good luck Edited March 2, 2018 by mmimzie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 25 minutes ago, mmimzie said: What do you guys think about hone survival instincts and alone in the dark??? have any of you had any luck with these cards??/ Those are other freebie cards i'm thinking about. I really like the 2 glory on alone in the dark low or no work. Seems easy enough to get alone in the dark off by playing the first turn rather passively. Mosto f the freebie cards are for stormcast, who you don't wanna risk giving away inspires on with too many multiple attacks. Alone in the Dark I don't like. Skritch and Krrk want to hang out (even without Bodyguard for a Price), and most Warbands will have at least a couple dudes hanging out next to each other. You can make it work, but I think it's too inconsistent. I don't think it's a bad card, but I wouldn't take it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugane Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, mmimzie said: What do you guys think about hone survival instincts and alone in the dark??? have any of you had any luck with these cards??/ Those are other freebie cards i'm thinking about. I really like the 2 glory on alone in the dark low or no work. Seems easy enough to get alone in the dark off by playing the first turn rather passively. Mosto f the freebie cards are for stormcast, who you don't wanna risk giving away inspires on with too many multiple attacks. @Garxia Welcome fellow clan rat here is my aggro list. Ploys: Ready for action spoils of war nervous scrabbling time trap side step musk of fear there are always more aversion to death confusion scratching in the shadows. Upgrades: Etheral Shield Hero slayer acrobatics awaken weapon great strength total offence shade glass hammer Black Hunger Daemonic weapon sneaky stab-stab Objectives plant a standard honest oppoent live are cheap Escalation Ploymaster Immedaiate: Skritch is the greatest, yes-yes Victorious Duel The bigger they are Arms Length Precise use of force Third end phase: Denial Annhilation. For how to play it. I have a write up on page 4 i believe. Good luck I played alone in the dark and honed survival in my objective based deck, and overal its relatively easy to pull off honed survival as skaven turn 1 and allows you to get some upgrades, but I did have alone in the dark dead in hand a few times, but ah well, just drop it and redraw an objective as an activation solves it for me now :). I try to bait my opponent with a clanrat to get them to break formation for Alone in the Dark. Of course now that people know I pull that kind of stuff, they don't trust to attack my clanrats anymore when I put them in the middle of random places, lol. (Which can work to my advantage by forcing them to cluster together and waste actions when I put a clanrat somewhere.) I'm still a bit double sided about alone in the dark though, especially if you dont draw a push from your ploys, its often dead in your hand... Or when your opponent fails to kill a clanrat. I had no luck with Victorious Duel and Annihilation personally. I was never able to score them until now. Have you been able to score them at all? (I feel killing a full team with Skaven that only have 2 "good" characters unequiped is a bit of a stretch) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugane Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 47 minutes ago, Garxia said: I'm going to play the rats for first time this weekend, but can't decide on deck.. Undecided if going objectives, mixed or aggro. Would love to see-see your rats lists! Welcome to the swarm! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Prediction for Adepticon Shadespire tournament: 7 of top 10 will be Skaven, including Top 2. They have it all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Sleboda said: Prediction for Adepticon Shadespire tournament: 7 of top 10 will be Skaven, including Top 2. They have it all. I somewhat agree. They feel like they might be on the stronger side, especially in my test games, but I think decks and playstyles will change to match. I'm fairly certain a well played Orruk or SCE player gives them trouble, just because Skritch can't go as ham as he does against other Warbands. But yeah, I expect a good number in top 10. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Quick thanks to all of you who've been discussing decks and strategy in this thread- I had a thorough re-read before my two games today, and it really helped. Lost the first- just- against Stormcast, won the second- violently and overwhelmingly- against Bloodbound. Skritch is a monster, he took down Oberyn and at least three of the Bloodbound by himself. The Hungering Skaven/Black Hunger/Shadeglass Hammer combo is disgusting (his greatest moment was being killed by Brightshield, being brought back by There Are Always More the very same activation, then immediately attacking and killing her in one hit), and I will continue to use it until people threaten to not play me anymore. Clearly my deck has some finessing in its future, but I'm quite pleased with its first performance. Objectives Hold Objective 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Brilliant, Brilliant! Skritch is the Greatest, Yes-Yes Denial Contained Master of War Lives Are Cheap Swift Advance Ploys Confusion Sacrificial Pawn Momentary Madness Spoils of Battle Sidestep Musk of Fear Nervous Scrabbling Aversion to Death There Are Always More* Momentary Boldness Upgrades Shadeglass Hammer Shadeglass Darts Shardcaller Acrobatic Great Strength Total Offence Black Hunger Skitter-Scurry Sneaky Stab-Stab Bodyguard for a Price *The Skaven on this card is absolutely adorable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 4 hours ago, Kugane said: I played alone in the dark and honed survival in my objective based deck, and overal its relatively easy to pull off honed survival as skaven turn 1 and allows you to get some upgrades, but I did have alone in the dark dead in hand a few times, but ah well, just drop it and redraw an objective as an activation solves it for me now :). I try to bait my opponent with a clanrat to get them to break formation for Alone in the Dark. Of course now that people know I pull that kind of stuff, they don't trust to attack my clanrats anymore when I put them in the middle of random places, lol. (Which can work to my advantage by forcing them to cluster together and waste actions when I put a clanrat somewhere.) I'm still a bit double sided about alone in the dark though, especially if you dont draw a push from your ploys, its often dead in your hand... Or when your opponent fails to kill a clanrat. I had no luck with Victorious Duel and Annihilation personally. I was never able to score them until now. Have you been able to score them at all? (I feel killing a full team with Skaven that only have 2 "good" characters unequiped is a bit of a stretch) I usually score duel when I need to. Really I just want a few glory. So that I can get to a place where I can score annihilation and/or denial. I've played several orcs, dwarfs, and stormcast. The force that should be harder for skaven to kill, and honestly storm cast is the easiest of the 3. I can get sketch to do attacks for all 4 of his activations in round 2 with all my movement ploys and extra turn actions. While the only 2 killy characters thing is only a round one problem, and some round 1s I go for honest opponent where I just position for round 2 and don't attack at all, hold my cards for the free glory. After that with a glory. The killiness is unlocked and any rat is more than up to the job of killing any other warband. 4 hours ago, Requizen said: I somewhat agree. They feel like they might be on the stronger side, especially in my test games, but I think decks and playstyles will change to match. I'm fairly certain a well played Orruk or SCE player gives them trouble, just because Skritch can't go as ham as he does against other Warbands. But yeah, I expect a good number in top 10. I agree. I think it's the speed and rather tankiness, while also have alot of burst potential. I do think things can recalibrate, but against the LVO meta skaven have those sort of decks pretty much dead to rights. Just because i think the decks before relied on fighting rather reliable opponents. The rats are abit more all over the place. Playing against them feels like every turn you walked into a trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rintrah56 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Grand clash winning deck is up on the WHU website now. Objective based, removing reliance on dice roles where possible etc... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garxia Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Looking at the Grand Clash winning deck... Quote Objectives 154 – Skritch is the Greatest 253 – Denial 254 – Determined Defender 255 – Escalation 263 – Hold Objective 1 264 – Hold Objective 2 265. – Hold Objective 3 266 – Hold Objective 4 267 – Hold Objective 5 270 – Making a statement 282 – Ploymaster 292- Supremacy Power Cards 158 – Momentary Boldness 160 – Nervous Scrabbling 161 – Scratching in the shadows 164 – There are always more 166 – Bodyguard for a price 170 – Skitter-scurry 311 – Confusion 321 – Earthquake 341 – Misdirection 352 – Sacrificial Pawn 359 – Shifting Shards 360 – Sidestep 391 – Great Stregnth 402 – Legendary Swiftness 411 – Shadeglass darts 420 – Soultrap 425 – The blazing key 426 – The dazzling key 430 – Tthe Shadowed key 428 – The fractured key - How is Bodyguard for a price working for everyone? Don't really like it, but maybe it's me. If you were going to substitute it from this deck, which card would you use? (Sneaky stab-stab?, Great Fortitude? ). - Haven't played it yet, but are you finding Nervous Scrabbling worth it? - Isn't Acrobatic strictly better than Soultrap in a skaven deck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smed1986 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 47 minutes ago, Garxia said: Looking at the Grand Clash winning deck... - How is Bodyguard for a price working for everyone? Don't really like it, but maybe it's me. If you were going to substitute it from this deck, which card would you use? (Sneaky stab-stab?, Great Fortitude? ). - Haven't played it yet, but are you finding Nervous Scrabbling worth it? - Isn't Acrobatic strictly better than Soultrap in a skaven deck? - I've only managed to play it once in the few games I've had but found it made me play more risky with Skritch so long as Krrk was about and paid off, for example Krrk charging someone and knocking them off an objective for Skritch to jump on it on the charge and then be pretty survivable inspired and on guard (potentially with support too) - Haven't played it yet myself either so can't comment - I'm not sure, but I do know every time I've played Acrobatic someone has come and hit me with cleave so would've been better off without it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tea_wild_owl Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Yesterday, I played against stormcast and won 3 out of 4 games. Since the warband is quite new (and I did not know howto play) I started with an an objective based deck with some combos in it. Here is my deck list: Ploys Confusion Nervous Scrabbling Spoils of Battle Duel of Wits Musk of Fear Scratching in the Shadows There Are Always More Sidestep Illusory Fighter Time Trap Ready for Action Upgrades Sneaky Stab-stab Ethereal Shield Shadeglass Hammer Great Strength Acrobatic Festering Blade Black Hunger Heroslayer Skitter-scurry Total Offense Awakened Weapon Immediate Arms's Length (*) Skritch is the Greatest, Yes-yes (*) Victorious Duel (**) Divide and Conquer (*) Any End Pphase Honed Survival Instincts (*) Ploymaster (*) Hold Objective 1 (*) Hold Objective 2 (*) Hold Objective 3 (*) Hold Objective 4 (*) Hold Objective 5 (*) 3rd End Phase Denial (***) If you noticed, I play 11 ploy and upgrade cards. I am quite happy with the number and I pay duel of wits to get compensate. More ploys are better for ploymaster, and Spoils of Battle allows you to Upgrade once for free. 7 of the plyos target a figgter, so it's not so hard to awaken the skaven. First game: I positioned Skritch way in the back. Opponent got confident and moved Obryn in my territory ending 2 fields away from an unoccupied starting hex. I played Illusory Fighter to teleport Skritch next to him (plus Skritch got awakened) and was able to kill Obryn in 2 activations (rolled a critical hit for both attacks). Scored 2 more Hold Objectives in the end. Equipped Skritch with Skitter-scurry and Great Strength. In the second round, my opponent got on guard, but I moved Skritch with sidestep one hex to get in reach to Steelheart. Equipped Skritch with Total Offence and Awakened Weapon a killed Steelheart with 4 attack dice 1 rerollable - 2 krits in the end with 4 dmg. Equipped Acrobatic to skritch and played musk of fear to put him on defence. Brightshield charged Skritch but defended with 3 dice. On 3rd round I won priority roll and killed Brightshield. Scored 13 glory in the end and finally had 7 upgrades on Skritch. 12-3 win Second Game: In the second game the Stormcast player was more defensive. He scored some objectives and upgraded his models, whereas I did not draw so well. Most remarkable move from Skaven was Skritch retreat from the front: He was at the front, but opponent played ploy to get +1 dmg for next attack (so 4 dmg to kll Skritch), so I played Illusory fighter to get to the backside, move him with sidestep and reanimate a rat to block movement. But nothing special,no good objectives and therefore almost no upgrade ended in a loss. 3 - 8 loss Third Game: This Time I positioned my board on the short edge to use skaven's mobility (first to games I used long edge but with smallest corridor). I positioned a clanrat in the front to lure him, Stormcast player advanced with stealheart to kill it (and to score for some objectives). again, I used Illusory Fighter to move Skritch to the front . he moved my Skritch with a ploy, so I had to charge, but managed to damage Steelheart. reanimated my clanrat to move onto a objective in rear enemy territory. In the second round I started and killed his Stealheart with Skritch, Obryn killed another clanrat and Brightshield damaged Skritch, but got killed in return. At this moment it was 4-6 for thr Stormcast player. In the final round I won the initiative, attacked Obryn with Skritch but failed the attack. He then played Illusory Fighter to retreat into his territory next to my clanrat He planned to kill my clanrat, but I had a skavenlike combo in my hand: I used Spoils of battle and equipped the clanrat with shadeglass hammer, then played Ready to Action to attack Obryn, managed to roll for a crit and killed him before he could even start his turn got to more objectives and won 7-6 in the end. 7-6 win Fourth Game: Stormcast player won board place for the first time, so I had to put first and he chose the long edge to get near to my units. Obryn charged a clanrat but failed to kill it. I was able to damage Obryn with Skritch after a charge. positioned on 2 objectives (one in enemy territory) but he pushed me from one to deny me one but I scored the other one. No more losses in for neither player. I started the second round and charged Obryn to be out of reach for the other Stormcasts and managed to kill him. He decided to go for the other side to harass some rats, but did not get to kill one. Krrt damaged Brightshield. Some objective score for me and him. In the last round I won priority again but let my enemy start to deny him ploys in the first round. He managed to kill a clanrat. Then I got one of my best combos running: I played Illusory fighter to return Skritch near both Brighshield and Steelheart. Then, I played Spoils of Battle to equip him with Awakened Weapon and played Ready for Action to attack (but failed to kill Brightshield). Then I used a regular attack to kill Brightshield, used the glory to equip Skritch with great Strength, played Time Trap to attack for a 3rd time in a row (!!) and...failed to kill Steelheart He then moved him on an objective (because he could not kill Skritch since he needed to charge but only deals 3 dmg). I positioned on 2 Objectives and pushed him from the one and won the game 12-7 Win In the end I can say that Skaven are very fun to play. Being very mobile and able to reuse equipped fighters by reviving them is quite good. However, Stormcast are very low on model count, so a rat in enemy territory is not a target for them. Warbands with some units in the rear field could be more difficult. Best Cards: I really liked Illusory fighter. At first I was unsure whether to include it, but its a great card to bring Skritch from the rear to the front without the need to move plus it awakens him! can still be used to secure some models from enemy territory after scoring there o to appear on the other side of the field (as I did in my 4th game). Another very good card was Ready for Action. Being able to get an extra attack (that combos very good with Spoils of battle) is great, especially with an upgraded Skritch and his range 2 attack. Normal attack, spoils of war or playing an upgrade, Ready for Action and Time Trap allows you 3 attacks in a row! Its a 3 cards combo, but if it triggers the result can be great. Cheers, T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHammer-darren Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I like that clash winning deck. It’s similar to what I’ve been playing. Objective focused and avoiding combat. But able to survive hits through dodge and inversion and acrobatic. And with upgrades and skritch, killing when I need to or picking off chaff bros. I don’t think so many keys is good. My own deck has focused around objective 3-5 cause it’s easy to get them even on opponents board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Smed1986 said: - I - I'm not sure, but I do know every time I've played Acrobatic someone has come and hit me with cleave so would've been better off without it! What?? Cleave only removes shields from being successes. I don't see how that hinders acrobatics in the slightest?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smed1986 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 hours ago, mmimzie said: What?? Cleave only removes shields from being successes. I don't see how that hinders acrobatics in the slightest?? Yeah, my mistake, was getting my cards mixed up! Ethereal Shield was what I was thinking of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggi Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 16 hours ago, tea_wild_owl said: If you noticed, I play 11 ploy and upgrade cards. I am quite happy with the number and I pay duel of wits to get compensate. More ploys are better for ploymaster. Do you offen go thru your whole deck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tea_wild_owl Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Reggi said: Do you offen go thru your whole deck? for all 4 games there were always some cards left, even when using some activations for drawing new cards. but I didn't discarded my starting for these games either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kugane Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, tea_wild_owl said: for all 4 games there were always some cards left, even when using some activations for drawing new cards. but I didn't discarded my starting for these games either In terms of consistency you are better off cutting 2 cards out of the deck for the sake of consistency. Very similar to what I play as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I think there are merits to 20 and 20+. Orruks, for example, can just load up on every possible combat card, knowing that it doesn't really matter what they draw because Orruks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2018/shadespirejudgerulings.pdf Rulings for Adepticon, from GW themselves. Expendable again has become an insane upgrade. You don't give up a Glory, and you can rez the model with Skritch or There Are Always More. If you're going for a balanced build (not all in on Skritch), this could be a straight up autoinclude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 10 hours ago, Requizen said: http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2018/shadespirejudgerulings.pdf Rulings for Adepticon, from GW themselves. Expendable again has become an insane upgrade. You don't give up a Glory, and you can rez the model with Skritch or There Are Always More. If you're going for a balanced build (not all in on Skritch), this could be a straight up autoinclude. Expendable is amazing, and I'm throwing it into my killy skaven deck. I always go for getting lots of support on my attacks, and spending a glory to deny a glory or two, while do a guaranteed damage is pretty awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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